The remaining $6.7 Billion is not money received by Wal*Mart or by the Walton family, it is received by the people working there.That $6.7b goes to the workers, true.
It goes to the workers, to replace the $6.7b the Walton family witheld from them.
The Walton family get to keep the money they witheld from their workers.The net result is exactly the same as if the Walmart workers had been paid the correct wage at the correct time, and the tax money had gone directly to the company owners instead.
Therefore, your low wage, working class taxes are going to billionaires, to prop up their bilionaire lifestyle.
Because obviously, you owe them. Somehow.You cry 'Socialism!' if your taxes support an unemployed person's hand to mouth existence, yet see no contradiction in supporting a billionaire, who refuses to pay their workers correctly.
And they have persuaded you to not only accept this, but to argue for it, and denounce any attempts to correct this.
Who decides what is the correct amount to pay workers? If those people don't have a job that will support a family, then they shouldn't start a family. Since I live off of my nonsubsidized minimum wage job, it isn't the employers fault that people can't live off their wages. People need to live within their means, and if you don't have a job that supports a family, then you shouldn't have a family. But it easier to blame someone else for your problems, than to blame yourself.
Take responsibility for your life!
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Take responsibility for your life!
Yes, comrades, take responsibility for your life! Join the Commonwealth Party of Galt (M-L) and fight to overthrow capitalism and construct a democratically-planned socialist society that brings prosperity, dignity and well-being for all!
Vive le Galt!
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Except that if Wal-Mart didn't exist, the demand for the products it sells wouldn't go away. Possibly all the small stores that Wal-Mart drove out of business would still exist, possibly paying higher wages, but definitely keeping more of the profits in the community.So, I found this (Fantastical Nonsense About WalMart, The Waltons And $7.8 Billion In Tax Breaks) which I found to be interesting, and, maybe, a better summation of the "in defense of Wal-Mart" argument.
Way outta my zone, but initial impressions: Wal-Mart saves the various affected American governments tons of money, the argument runs, because if the former didn't exist the latter would have to pay even more in welfare benefits.
Seeing my name on this quote tag made me shudder and edit.
The remaining $6.7 Billion is not money received by Wal*Mart or by the Walton family, it is received by the people working there.That $6.7b goes to the workers, true.
It goes to the workers, to replace the $6.7b the Walton family witheld from them.
The Walton family get to keep the money they witheld from their workers.The net result is exactly the same as if the Walmart workers had been paid the correct wage at the correct time, and the tax money had gone directly to the company owners instead.
Therefore, your low wage, working class taxes are going to billionaires, to prop up their bilionaire lifestyle.
Because obviously, you owe them. Somehow.You cry 'Socialism!' if your taxes support an unemployed person's hand to mouth existence, yet see no contradiction in supporting a billionaire, who refuses to pay their workers correctly.
And they have persuaded you to not only accept this, but to argue for it, and denounce any attempts to correct this.
Who decides what is the correct amount to pay workers? If those people don't have a job that will support a family, then they shouldn't start a family. Since I live off of my nonsubsidized minimum wage job, it isn't the employers fault that people can't live off their wages. People need to live within their means, and if you don't have a job that supports a family, then you shouldn't have a family. But it easier to blame someone else for your problems, than to blame yourself.
Take responsibility for your life!
I just threw up in my own mouth.
Not to mention I don't believe you.
On the roughly $1275 a month you make working a full-time minimum-wage job there is no way that you have your own place (ie, no roommate, sig other, or parents sharing or covering rent), make a gas/power/water/internet payment, pay for a modest used car, insurance on that car, gasoline, renters insurance, health insurance, food, and buy an average of 10 shirts, 3 pants, a dozen each socks and undies, and a new new pair of shoes each year.
If you aren't or couldn't do those things on your own, you are not making it.
Edit: Best I could figure, living in low cost areas, you would need about $1800 a month for that. Or about $10.23 an hour after tax. That would also mean you can't: get sick, get hurt, take time off, save for your future, pay down debt, buy Christmas/birthday presents, have a social life.
[Poops in hand and flings it at Citizen K(e)rensky]
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Who decides what is the correct amount to pay workers? If those people don't have a job that will support a family, then they shouldn't start a family. Since I live off of my nonsubsidized minimum wage job, it isn't the employers fault that people can't live off their wages.
It is entirely the employers fault because they choose what to play their employees. Wages are decided by conscious choice, not the inviolate laws of the universe.
The remaining $6.7 Billion is not money received by Wal*Mart or by the Walton family, it is received by the people working there.That $6.7b goes to the workers, true.
It goes to the workers, to replace the $6.7b the Walton family witheld from them.
The Walton family get to keep the money they witheld from their workers.The net result is exactly the same as if the Walmart workers had been paid the correct wage at the correct time, and the tax money had gone directly to the company owners instead.
Therefore, your low wage, working class taxes are going to billionaires, to prop up their bilionaire lifestyle.
Because obviously, you owe them. Somehow.You cry 'Socialism!' if your taxes support an unemployed person's hand to mouth existence, yet see no contradiction in supporting a billionaire, who refuses to pay their workers correctly.
And they have persuaded you to not only accept this, but to argue for it, and denounce any attempts to correct this.
Who decides what is the correct amount to pay workers? If those people don't have a job that will support a family, then they shouldn't start a family. Since I live off of my nonsubsidized minimum wage job, it isn't the employers fault that people can't live off their wages. People need to live within their means, and if you don't have a job that supports a family, then you shouldn't have a family. But it easier to blame someone else for your problems, than to blame yourself.
Take responsibility for your life!
I just threw up in my own mouth.
Not to mention I don't believe you.
On the roughly $1275 a month you make working a full-time minimum-wage job there is no way that you have your own place (ie, no roommate, sig other, or parents sharing or covering rent), make a gas/power/water/internet payment, pay for a modest used car, insurance on that car, gasoline, renters insurance, health insurance, food, and buy an average of 10...
Get rid of the car and you do eliminate a lot of those expenses. If they then live the a depressed city, you can replace gas, car insurance, and car payments with a bus ticket for ~$20 per month. I'm guessing those totaled ~$600 in your estimates.
Also, I don't know many people who have ever actually gotten renter's insurance, and if you plan on never getting sick you wont buy health insurance either.
I've never lived anywhere (outside of school dorms) that didn't require me to carry renter's insurance.
Also, while it may have changed, from the little statistics I've seen the higher cost of urban living vs not having car expenses often makes it a wash. Ignoring extremes like NYC, or course.
The key phrase was "depressed city." Rent in the USA has become very bimodal; in some cities, the apartment market has become so tight people are taking office buildings off the market to turn them into rentals, while in other cities, you can't give apartments away. Columbus,, OH costs like $700 for an average apartment. Witchita, KS, is only $625, and you can easily find apartments much cheaper than "average."
I've never lived anywhere (outside of school dorms) that didn't require me to carry renter's insurance.
Also, while it may have changed, from the little statistics I've seen the higher cost of urban living vs not having car expenses often makes it a wash. Ignoring extremes like NYC, or course.
The key phrase was "depressed city." Rent in the USA has become very bimodal; in some cities, the apartment market has become so tight people are taking office buildings off the market to turn them into rentals, while in other cities, you can't give apartments away. Columbus,, OH costs like $700 for an average apartment. Witchita, KS, is only $625, and you can easily find apartments much cheaper than "average."
Here in upstate NY, you can find apartments in parts of Troy for as low as 325 plus utilities.
I'm not sure any sane person would want to live in them.
I've never lived anywhere (outside of school dorms) that didn't require me to carry renter's insurance.
Also, while it may have changed, from the little statistics I've seen the higher cost of urban living vs not having car expenses often makes it a wash. Ignoring extremes like NYC, or course.
$410 dollars a month here. The only utilities I pay for are electricity and internet, no renter's insurance required.
And this is actually a pretty sweet apartment. One bedroom, bathroom, kitchen, living room. It's in a low-crime area that's a fifteen-minute walk from campus, if I don't take the bus.
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I've never lived anywhere (outside of school dorms) that didn't require me to carry renter's insurance.
Also, while it may have changed, from the little statistics I've seen the higher cost of urban living vs not having car expenses often makes it a wash. Ignoring extremes like NYC, or course.
The key phrase was "depressed city." Rent in the USA has become very bimodal; in some cities, the apartment market has become so tight people are taking office buildings off the market to turn them into rentals, while in other cities, you can't give apartments away. Columbus,, OH costs like $700 for an average apartment. Witchita, KS, is only $625, and you can easily find apartments much cheaper than "average."
Yes, if you can find an apt for less than $600 a month within walking distance of your job and the grocery then you could get away without a car. Which would still leave you on the bleeding edge of paycheck-to-paycheck existence on minimum wage. Where you still couldn't get sick, get hurt, pay down debt, save money, of have a social life.
It should seem obvious that the conditions described above are not the norm and still leave you one accident away from complete financial ruin.
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Yes, if you can find an apt for less than $600 a month within walking distance of your job and the grocery then you could get away without a car. Which would still leave you on the bleeding edge of paycheck-to-paycheck existence on minimum wage. Where you still couldn't get sick, get hurt, pay down debt, save money, of have a social life.It should seem obvious that the conditions described above are not the norm and still leave you one accident away from complete financial ruin.
It's not at all obvious to me that the conditions described above are not the norm. I wish they weren't. And what I find deeply distressing is the superiority the people in that situation who have NOT experienced that one accident seem to feel over those who have.
I think a lot of people are holding on to the notion of moral superiority as an emotional fuzzy blanket to protect them from having to face their financial insecurity.
Yes, but with only a full time minimum wage job he's looking for a place where his rent is something like $370.I've never lived anywhere (outside of school dorms) that didn't require me to carry renter's insurance.
Also, while it may have changed, from the little statistics I've seen the higher cost of urban living vs not having car expenses often makes it a wash. Ignoring extremes like NYC, or course.
The key phrase was "depressed city." Rent in the USA has become very bimodal; in some cities, the apartment market has become so tight people are taking office buildings off the market to turn them into rentals, while in other cities, you can't give apartments away. Columbus,, OH costs like $700 for an average apartment. Witchita, KS, is only $625, and you can easily find apartments much cheaper than "average."
Yes, so that's probably cheaper than "average."
Ask and ye shall receive. Here's one in Caldwell, ID for $347, which will even give you a pizza to celebrate your new digs.
Not to mention that lots of people spend half their money on rent. Living off $10/day is not pleasant, but possible. So even with $600/month rent and $400/month living expenses, you can fit into a $1200/month budget.
It's just unpleasant as all get-out.
Yes, if you can find an apt for less than $600 a month within walking distance of your job and the grocery then you could get away without a car. Which would still leave you on the bleeding edge of paycheck-to-paycheck existence on minimum wage. Where you still couldn't get sick, get hurt, pay down debt, save money, of have a social life.It should seem obvious that the conditions described above are not the norm and still leave you one accident away from complete financial ruin.
It's not at all obvious to me that the conditions described above are not the norm. I wish they weren't. And what I find deeply distressing is the superiority the people in that situation who have NOT experienced that one accident seem to feel over those who have.
I think a lot of people are holding on to the notion of moral superiority as an emotional fuzzy blanket to protect them from having to face their financial insecurity.
By "not the norm" I mean finding an apt for less than $600 within walking distance of a job.
Certainly many people are forced to cope with such a wage situation but my point is that taking on roommates or working through being sick or injured, ignoring long term medical issues because you can't afford to deal with them now, etc, is not "making it."
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By "not the norm" I mean finding an apt for less than $600 within walking distance of a job.
Fair enough, my bad. Although I'd be interested to see the stats -- and it's much easier to find a cheap apartment within bus range of a job.
Certainly many people are forced to cope with such a wage situation but my point is that taking on roommates or working through being sick or injured, ignoring long term medical issues because you can't afford to deal with them now, etc, is not "making it."
You have a narrow definition of "making it" that I suspect a lot of people don't share, including a number of people in that very situation. A lot of people confuse "lucky" with "good planning," and would attribute the fact that they're not sick to their moral superiority or something.
Even "walking distance" is flexible and depends upon what you're used to. When I was much younger, five miles was easy enough -- it's only a two hour's walk, after all. Now that I'm older, no longer in college, and much fatter, I think that the television set is a substantial hike away....
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Ok Vod. Since you're so poor, and we all know poverty is due to the moral failings of the poor, what sins do you have to confess?
BOOM GOES THE DYNAMITE!
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This is the us. Public transportation outside of the major cities isn't really good enough for commuting to most places. For most of this country a car is a neccesity.
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Who decides what is the correct amount to pay workers?
The market does...operating within the parameters set by society.
Progressive are generally suggesting that those parameters should be adjusted. Somehow you've been convinced that the parameters don't exist, and therefore that any government action is interference.
The remaining $6.7 Billion is not money received by Wal*Mart or by the Walton family, it is received by the people working there.That $6.7b goes to the workers, true.
It goes to the workers, to replace the $6.7b the Walton family witheld from them.
The Walton family get to keep the money they witheld from their workers.The net result is exactly the same as if the Walmart workers had been paid the correct wage at the correct time, and the tax money had gone directly to the company owners instead.
Therefore, your low wage, working class taxes are going to billionaires, to prop up their bilionaire lifestyle.
Because obviously, you owe them. Somehow.You cry 'Socialism!' if your taxes support an unemployed person's hand to mouth existence, yet see no contradiction in supporting a billionaire, who refuses to pay their workers correctly.
And they have persuaded you to not only accept this, but to argue for it, and denounce any attempts to correct this.
Who decides what is the correct amount to pay workers? If those people don't have a job that will support a family, then they shouldn't start a family. Since I live off of my nonsubsidized minimum wage job, it isn't the employers fault that people can't live off their wages. People need to live within their means, and if you don't have a job that supports a family, then you shouldn't have a family. But it easier to blame someone else for your problems, than to blame yourself.
Take responsibility for your life!
I just threw up in my own mouth.
Not to mention I don't believe you.
On the roughly $1275 a month you make working a full-time minimum-wage job there is no way that you have your own place (ie, no roommate, sig other, or parents sharing or covering rent), make a gas/power/water/internet payment, pay for a modest used car, insurance on that car, gasoline, renters insurance, health insurance, food, and buy an average of 10...
I bought a Mobile Home for $200 and spent the summer rebuilding the interior. My rent is $240/month Utilities about $120/month car insurance $50, Internet $50, my phone is prepaid, and I spend about $100 a year on it. So you can believe what you would like, but here I sit. I live just outside a small town in the middle of cornfields. I buy clothing via the internet, looking for cheap sales.
And you expect everyone else to live like indigents?
I hope they raise the minimum wage.
Then I can go pursue my life long dream of flipping burgers.
Conservatives sure are fond of blaming the victim, aren't they?
Ok Vod. Since you're so poor, and we all know poverty is due to the moral failings of the poor, what sins do you have to confess?
I post way too much on internet forums.
Oh, and while a full time minimum wage job will put a single person with no dependents in the 15% bracket, it's also only a barely livable wage in the lowest cost of living areas of the country. It also means you almost certainly qualify for SNAP, Medicaid, and a few other programs.
I make approximately $500 a year too much to qualify for any such benefits. Single people with no dependents get very few benefits from the government, something that all media ignores.
You notice that too, Vod? You and I are being oppressed by the married majority! Singles unite! Down with the matrimocracy!
Suck it, singles! ;)
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I bought a Mobile Home for $200 and spent the summer rebuilding the interior. My rent is $240/month Utilities about $120/month car insurance $50, Internet $50, my phone is prepaid, and I spend about $100 a year on it. So you can believe what you would like, but here I sit. I live just outside a small town in the middle of cornfields. I buy clothing via the internet, looking for cheap sales.
And this is somehow better than the government forcing companies to pay people more on what grounds?
Vod,
I sincerely hope you don't get sick or hurt, or need to repair your car. Congrats on paying off you vehicle.
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I bought a Mobile Home for $200 and spent the summer rebuilding the interior. My rent is $240/month Utilities about $120/month car insurance $50, Internet $50, my phone is prepaid, and I spend about $100 a year on it. So you can believe what you would like, but here I sit. I live just outside a small town in the middle of cornfields. I buy clothing via the internet, looking for cheap sales.And this is somehow better than the government forcing companies to pay people more on what grounds?
Because if Vod did it, then everyone else can. Clearly there can be no circumstances worse than Vod's. If Vod doesn't need help at this moment, then why should anybody else ever need any help ever.
And you expect everyone else to live like indigents?
Are you kidding me? Living in a $200 trailer is living like a vagrant?
OK, maybe. I'd have to see the trailer and what he did with it before I make any judgments. I've seen people do that because they want to build a place for themselves, and I've seen people do that because they don't give a rodent's posterior.
And you expect everyone else to live like indigents?Are you kidding me? Living in a $200 trailer is living like a vagrant?
Yes.
Or are those people living in 200 dollar tents tents no longer vagrants?
If I'd known LL Bean could have solved the homelessness problem...
And you expect everyone else to live like indigents?Are you kidding me? Living in a $200 trailer is living like a vagrant?
OK, maybe. I'd have to see the trailer and what he did with it before I make any judgments. I've seen people do that because they want to build a place for themselves, and I've seen people do that because they don't give a rodent's posterior.
The cheapest place to live in Madison is in a trailer park on the south side, lot fees are like $150 a month and you can rent a decent sized trailer (not double-wide) for probably another $150.
It's across the street from the sewage treatment plant. My girlfriend and I call it poo road. It's the only place I know of where I could buy meth if I wanted (which I don't, meth is a worker's drug and I'm a slacker).
Yes, comrades, take responsibility for your life! Join the Commonwealth Party of Galt (M-L) and fight to overthrow capitalism and construct a democratically-planned socialist society that brings prosperity, dignity and well-being for all!I'll take the Uncharted Forest over the City.
We're out of uncharted forest. And if you have a lot of people living in it it doesn't stay forest very long.
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Let alone uncharted.
Vice News: Seattle's $15 Minimum Wage Plan Is Probably Not Going to Crash Its Economy
The Guardian: Seattle's $15 minimum-wage proposal: 'victory for the bottom of the pile'
The Seattle Times: Studies look at what happened when cities raised minimum wage
Some dude I know who has a blog: You really gotta know about what’s going on in Seattle
Left-wing critics: $15Now becomes $15 Later. (maybe)
Vice News: Seattle's $15 Minimum Wage Plan Is Probably Not Going to Crash Its Economy
The Guardian: Seattle's $15 minimum-wage proposal: 'victory for the bottom of the pile'
The Seattle Times: Studies look at what happened when cities raised minimum wage
Some dude I know who has a blog: You really gotta know about what’s going on in Seattle
Left-wing critics: $15Now becomes $15 Later. (maybe)
Did you read the Seattle Times article? A couple of quotes from it.
“When talking about a $15 minimum wage, you’re going to a level that’s somewhat unprecedented,” said Michael Saltsman, research director for the Employment Policies Institute, which is partially funded by the restaurant industry.
“A 60 percent increase in labor costs doesn’t just wipe out profits at a typical restaurant, it wipes them out four times over,” he said.
And with Seattle contemplating a 61 percent jump, low-skilled employment could drop as much as 18 percent, Sabia said. (Joseph Sabia, an economics professor at San Diego State University)
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Damn, how could I forget that providing actual data to refute (most often conservative/right-wing) talking points will be continually ignored.
Gotta keep that propaganda machine rolling!
*headdesk*
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Here's something to remember. Profit is revenue ABOVE AND BEYOND cost. Which means that if a business is making profit, it has plenty of room to compromise on wages. To act like if businesses aren't allowed to make exorbitant profits on the back of labor that they're not making a buck is disingenuous; they're still making plenty of revenue.
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Did you read the Seattle Times article?
Yes. You found your favorite quotes, here's mine:
"Potential price increases at restaurants was the biggest negative impact identified by the Berkeley researchers. The cost of eating out went up 2 to 3 percent when the minimum wage rose 25 percent. That means dining out in Seattle could go up as much as 7 percent if the city goes to $15 an hour."
So, instead of being a shiftless, drug-addicted low-wage worker in New Hampshire, I am magically transported to being a shiftless, drug-addicted low-wage worker in Seattle where, let's imagine, the $15 Now charter amendment goes through. I go to my favorite dining spot and discover that my beloved Burger King double cheeseburgers have gone from $1.59 to $1.75. Woe is me! What shall I ever do? Oh, wait a minute, I just got a $2.31 pay raise. Value meals for everybody! Yeah, baby, go ahead, super-size it!
Woops. Math fail. My pay only increased $1.31. Sorry, baby, no super-size.