Martial Versatility, Feral Combat Training and the Close Weapon Group

[Anticleon]

When the Martial Versatility feat is taken for the Feral Combat Training feat, does Feral Combat Training:
(a) just apply to all natural weapons; or
(b) apply to all weapons in the Close Weapon Group?

Ultimate Combat wrote:

Feral Combat Training (Combat)

You were taught a style of martial arts that relies on the natural weapons from your racial ability or class feature.

Prerequisite: Improved Unarmed Strike, Weapon Focus with selected natural weapon.

Benefit: Choose one of your natural weapons. While using the selected natural weapon, you can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, as well as effects that augment an unarmed strike.

Special: If you are a monk, you can use the selected natural weapon with your flurry of blows class feature.

Advanced Race Guide wrote:

Martial Versatility (Combat, Human)

You broaden your study of weapons to encompass multiple similar weapons.

Prerequisites: Fighter level 4th, human.

Benefit: Choose one combat feat you know that applies to a specific weapon (e.g., Weapon Focus). You can use that feat with any weapon within the same weapon group.

Special: You may take this feat more than once. Each time it applies to a different feat.

To put it another way, is the effect of Martial Versatility to alter the benefit of Feral Combat Training like this?:

"Choose one of your natural weapons. While using the selected natural weapon [or any weapon within the same weapon group], you can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, as well as effects that augment an unarmed strike."

If this is the case, it could allow, say, a monk taking both feats to apply their increased unarmed strike damage to attacks made with armor spikes or a shield.

[blackbloodtroll]

It would be the Natural Weapon Fighter Weapon Group.

Not the Close Fighter Weapon Group.

[Claxon]

As bbt said, the effect of Feral Combat Training would merely expand from 1 natural weapon to all natural weapons.

[EvilPaladin]

I would really like this to work with the Close Weapon Group, because although it would impose a minor feat tax, it would let Brawler[ACG] and Monk characters use Unarmed Strike damage with Brass Knuckles[like many think they should be able to do].

That said, Natural Weapons are only found in the Natural Weapon fighter group, unfortunately.

[blackbloodtroll]

Very nice for a PC focused on Natural Weapons.

[Imbicatus]

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Very nice for a PC focused on Natural Weapons.

Yeah, it's fantastic for Druid/Monks/Beastmorph Alchemists/Dragon Disciples/Monstrous Physique Magi. Too bad it's relatively difficult to get multiple natural weapons and style feats on a Human.

[blackbloodtroll]

Imbicatus wrote:

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Very nice for a PC focused on Natural Weapons.

Yeah, it's fantastic for Druid/Monks/Beastmorph Alchemists/Dragon Disciples/Monstrous Physique Magi. Too bad it's relatively difficult to get multiple natural weapons and style feats on a Human.

Scion of Humanity Aasimar, with the Racial Heritage feat can get quite a few.

[Imbicatus]

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Imbicatus wrote:

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Very nice for a PC focused on Natural Weapons.

Yeah, it's fantastic for Druid/Monks/Beastmorph Alchemists/Dragon Disciples/Monstrous Physique Magi. Too bad it's relatively difficult to get multiple natural weapons and style feats on a Human.

Scion of Humanity Aasimar, with the Racial Heritage feat can get quite a few.

True, but metallic wings have a lot of prerequisites. Feral Combat Training has heavy prereqs. Style Feats have prereqs. It's difficult to fit them all in.

[Arachnofiend]

Half-Orcs qualify for Human feats, don't they? Not hard to get Bite/Claw/Claw there with a two-level dip in Ranger.

[Anticleon]

Thank you for your replies. Sorry - I confused unarmed strike with natural weapons when looking at the close weapon group.

[reyyvin]

EvilPaladin wrote:

I would really like this to work with the Close Weapon Group, because although it would impose a minor feat tax, it would let Brawler[ACG] and Monk characters use Unarmed Strike damage with Brass Knuckles[like many think they should be able to do].

That said, Natural Weapons are only found in the Natural Weapon fighter group, unfortunately.

Thread Necro...

An Unarmed strike counts as both a manufactured and a natural attack

weapon focus (Unarmed Strike)
Feral Combat Training (Unarmed Strike)
Martial Versatility (FCT)

would this allow you to use monk damage (and unarmed effects) with weapons in the "Monk" weapon group... which include Cestus and brass knuckles?

[proftobe]

reyyvin wrote:

EvilPaladin wrote:

I would really like this to work with the Close Weapon Group, because although it would impose a minor feat tax, it would let Brawler[ACG] and Monk characters use Unarmed Strike damage with Brass Knuckles[like many think they should be able to do].

That said, Natural Weapons are only found in the Natural Weapon fighter group, unfortunately.

Thread Necro...

An Unarmed strike counts as both a manufactured and a natural attack

weapon focus (Unarmed Strike)
Feral Combat Training (Unarmed Strike)
Martial Versatility (FCT)

would this allow you to use monk damage (and unarmed effects) with weapons in the "Monk" weapon group... which include Cestus and brass knuckles?

no because FCT only allows you to use it with feats/abilities that have improved unarmed as a preq. Martial versatility isn't one of them. On the bright side the brawler will possess an ability close to what you are asking for we just don't know exactly how it works yet.

[Kazaan]

FCT specifically calls out natural weapons so, even though you could technically expand that via Martial Versatility to the Close and Natural weapon groups, it would only function with Natural Weapons in those groups. So you couldn't, say, apply the FCT benefits to a Cestus and get Dragon Style bonus damage on your Cestus attack because the Cestus isn't a Natural Weapon. However, if you had multiple natural weapons, you could use Martial Versatility to slather your FCT all over your natural weapons so they all benefit.

[Bandw2]

wait... does FCT allow me to use monk damage on natural weapons?

[Archaeik]

Bandw2 wrote:

wait... does FCT allow me to use monk damage on natural weapons?

Yes

FAQ

[Bandw2]

Archaeik wrote:

Bandw2 wrote:

wait... does FCT allow me to use monk damage on natural weapons?

Yes

FAQ

in gestalt game, haven't started yet, synthesist summoner + monk/brawler? gm weep tears of brokeness?

bro can you even handle all these claws?

I doubt ill even do this or if this will even be dramatically more powerful than a normal summoner, but still nice to know since my current build already uses FCT with a pair of claws and monk levels.