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Hey gang,
I see Contingency gets a lot of love on the boards because it provides a great "last-line of defense" and flexibility when things go wrong.
For the pessimistic, necromantic caster, there's another use that I've been thinking of and I'm wondering if it's legit rules wise.
You're going into a fight very likely to end in your death, but not being a quitter, you don't want that to get in the way. Or maybe you're about to be lynched as the masses storm your cabin in the woods after words of your "experiments" on the farmer down the road has gotten out.
Could you cast Contingency, with the trigger being that when you die, Create Undead kicks in and you rise as a powerful undead, possibly with class levels?
With a quick look I don't see any reason it wouldn't work. You might want to specify a delay so your killers have time to pass on, and be sure that the contingency is set to delay until night to cast (Create Undead can only be cast at night).
You would have to pay for the material component each time you recast it though.
Lol! This is actually, brilliant! I'm going to do some research now on this very thing for my Druid/Cleric in a Way of the Wicked game I'm playing.
Seems legit and potentially awesome! Costs some loot each time you cast it, but that shouldn't be too prohibitive by that level.
To save some money, maybe you should arrange to be killed as soon as you cast the Contingency spell....
i'm just thinking of awesomprksto play on the party pally especially if you're a cleric with that not-evil undead thing.
It would suck if your enemy were smart enough to destroy your corpse, which is a regular practice in my party for any spell casters we kill.
No one likes someone coming back. Usually using animate dead is the preferred method. Turn their corpse into a mindless undead. It blocks raise dead, resurrection, and reincarnation from working, and would block this as well.
We don't frak around and we don't underestimate casters.
You know none of the undead in create undead except maybe mummy retain class levels.
Wouldn't something like a Skeletal Champion retain class levels? For example, it retains class skills, meaning it has a class, and it wouldn't have class skills if it didn't have a class. As well, HD from class levels are retained. So they kill the squishy wizard necromancer, then the skeleton tears itself from the flesh and begins reaping revenge on the ignorant folk, then the dead townsfolk corpses get drafted into the undead legion.
Sure it's a niche situation, but how cool would it be as a back-up plan? Would you then be able to pursue lichdom ? If so, you'd now have so much freetime as being already undead not having to eat or sleep, or leave your private research lab, the years and years it would take would pose no problem.
You know none of the undead in create undead except maybe mummy retain class levels.
Create Undead With an example of juju zombie & skeletal champion Paizo disagrees with you. But it creates different kind of problem: "You must have a caster level greater than the HD of the undead to be created."
How you can have more caster level than your HD? I can only think about Orange Ioun Stone, but there must be something else.
Idea definitely stolen for wizard NPC in my campaign :D
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You know none of the undead in create undead except maybe mummy retain class levels.Create Undead With an example of juju zombie & skeletal champion Paizo disagrees with you. But it creates different kind of problem: "You must have a caster level greater than the HD of the undead to be created."
How you can have more caster level than your HD? I can only think about Orange Ioun Stone, but there must be something else.
Idea definitely stolen for wizard NPC in my campaign :D
Well...you could always make the undead 1hd lower than you, sure, not as powerful, but you are cheating death and coming back.
You know none of the undead in create undead except maybe mummy retain class levels.Create Undead With an example of juju zombie & skeletal champion Paizo disagrees with you. But it creates different kind of problem: "You must have a caster level greater than the HD of the undead to be created."
How you can have more caster level than your HD? I can only think about Orange Ioun Stone, but there must be something else.
Idea definitely stolen for wizard NPC in my campaign :D
Since skeletal champion gives you additional HD, you'll need even more than the orange ioun stone. Maybe death knell and the orange combined.
Would Death Knell spell, Gifted Adept trait, and the orange ioun stone all stack? If so, you're at +3 CL, lets say you're a level 15 wizard, you need to be able to have it greater than 17 because of the +2 from skeletal champion, with those three you're at CL 18 and thus, raise yourself from the dead as your own avenging undead champion.
You know none of the undead in create undead except maybe mummy retain class levels.Create Undead With an example of juju zombie & skeletal champion Paizo disagrees with you. But it creates different kind of problem: "You must have a caster level greater than the HD of the undead to be created."
How you can have more caster level than your HD? I can only think about Orange Ioun Stone, but there must be something else.
Idea definitely stolen for wizard NPC in my campaign :D
Well I try not to use 3rd party resources as a basis for rules discussions. The skeletal champion entry never says what spell is neeses but implies similar powee ro ghosts.
The prd lists 4 undead only one of which is implied to retain class levels (the mummy) there are some golarion specific lore related to ghouls and lazarite for keeping class levels but that's setting specific.
Using a miracle or wish spell might have the effect you want. The BBEG could have it on a scroll, or just be that powerful. Heck you could chain multiple wishes or miracles.
That sounds awesome, lol.
Makes me wonder, tho, what if we go other way. Does Enervating yourself to get -3 levels will make you get -3 HD so you can rise yourself as Skeletal Champion? What about something that gives permanent levels?
Negative levels do not change your hd. Itdoesnt explicitly name it but its likely you need create greater undead for skel champion.
The creature is also treated as one level lower for the purpose of level-dependent variables (such as spellcasting) for each negative level possessed.
Does it make you treated as lower HD tho?
Those negative levels probably vanish once you're dead.
I like the idea behind this thread :)
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You know none of the undead in create undead except maybe mummy retain class levels.
JuJu Zombies are the bomb, yo.
Ehy keep class levels and are immune to Magic Missile and doesn't afraid of anything.
The prd lists 4 undead only one of which is implied to retain class levels (the mummy) there are some golarion specific lore related to ghouls and lazarite for keeping class levels but that's setting specific.
You have to look in books besides Core. Bestiary 2 is not exactly some obscure setting book.
You know none of the undead in create undead except maybe mummy retain class levels.Create Undead With an example of juju zombie & skeletal champion Paizo disagrees with you. But it creates different kind of problem: "You must have a caster level greater than the HD of the undead to be created."
How you can have more caster level than your HD? I can only think about Orange Ioun Stone, but there must be something else.
Idea definitely stolen for wizard NPC in my campaign :D
Well I try not to use 3rd party resources as a basis for rules discussions. The skeletal champion entry never says what spell is neeses but implies similar powee ro ghosts.
The prd lists 4 undead only one of which is implied to retain class levels (the mummy) there are some golarion specific lore related to ghouls and lazarite for keeping class levels but that's setting specific.
theres a teifling trait that raises your CL on evil spells, and another trait that raises cl on darkness spells
There's at least three feats that bring CL up, bloatmage initiate/spell focus/spell specialzation
dot
I love this thread!
I did something similar as a "cheaty" GM when I had a necromancer who'd convinced a cleric to throw a Raise Dead on his Contingency. (Totally illegal, but it fit with the story at the time.)
Unfortunately, the party found an allied silver dragon.
The Raise Dead went off while the necromancer was in the dragon's claws.
Not the best cheating Contingency I've ever used...
So yeah. "Don't bring me back until after dark. Don't bring me back after the peasants have thrown me in the furnace."
A few little tips and tidbits you might want to add to that contingency...
I do believe you'd forget your spell column due to dying, would you not? Might impede your ability to get a great advantage out of this in combat.
Otherwise, sounds like a great idea.
I thought ghouls could have class levels?
They can, but most undead (including ghouls), even intelligent ones, lose their current class levels when they're turned undead.
So a Rogue 5 who is turned into a ghoul becomes a Ghast, but then can start over at Rogue 1 if he so chooses.
Given what the OP says he wants to do, the result would be that he would be coming back as a mindless undead and all the other stuff you mentioned would come into play.It would suck if your enemy were smart enough to destroy your corpse, which is a regular practice in my party for any spell casters we kill.
No one likes someone coming back. Usually using animate dead is the preferred method. Turn their corpse into a mindless undead. It blocks raise dead, resurrection, and reincarnation from working, and would block this as well.
We don't frak around and we don't underestimate casters.
I think he means casting animate dead on the caster's body to prevent subsequent reanimations.
Ghoul, Ghast, Mummy, and Mohrg are listed under Create Undead in the CRB.
Undead Revisited adds Attic Whisperer, (Giant) Crawling Hand, Crypt Thing, Draugr, Dullahan, Huecuva, Skeletal Champion, Juju Zombie, and Wight to the Create Undead list.
All the Phantom Armors (including Hollow Helm) are added by Carrion Crown 5 of 6, Ashes at Dawn.
Hungry are the Dead adds Festrog.
All Paizo products.
Both the Juju Zombie and Skeletal Champion are templates that let you keep your previous class levels. It isn't too hard to raise your caster level over you HD.
I like this idea.