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If you want to retrain 1 lvl back into the same class, what is the cost, in terms of PP and gold, to do so?
ALL the example below assume this character is lv 2 and above AND have only 1 lv of another class they want to retrain.
Example, Fight lv 10, Cleric lv 1 (<---- retraining cleric lv)
Do you..?:
1) Pay 7 pp and proper gold and retrain back into the same class?
2) Pay 5-7pp and proper gold to retrain out of the class into another class and then another 5-7pp and proper gold to retrain back into the original class?
3) Can't ever retrain back into the same class?
Also in addition to the cost, what can you retrain when you retrain back into the same class?
Examples,
1a) Can a (Lv1)) Cleric retrain his domains?
1b) An Oracle retrain his mystery/curses?
2a) Can you pick up an archetype?
2b) Lose the one you had before?
2c) Swap one archetype for another?
3) Retrain spell knows?
Does anyone knows?
Note: I understand retraining into another class, it is the retraining back into a class I'm confused about, specifically if you are retraining a class you took a lv dip of.
You still have to retrain so the same cost should apply. Once you are in the new class then you are that class. The fact that you used to be of the old class does not matter since you have to still learn the skills(not the game term) again.
If you going back into a class that can be retrained into by RAW then yes.
As an example I think fighters can go directly into barbarian and vice versa.
However, for some classes you may have to go into class B before getting into class C. In that case I would say number 2 would apply.
No. You can right back into cleric because all of the classes the cleric can retrain into can also go right back into cleric.
This chart shows which classes go directly into another class. If you look at the "old" class chart, and the class you want to retrain into is not in the new class chart then you would have to go into another class first, but oracle and cleric do directly into each other.
If I wanted to go from witch to magus I may have to go witch-->wizard-->magus as an example.
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No. You can right back into cleric because all of the classes the cleric can retrain into can also go right back into cleric.
This chart shows which classes go directly into another class. If you look at the "old" class chart, and the new class is not in the new class chart then you would have to go into another class first, but oracle and cleric do directly into each other.
Two things:
First - wraithstrike I presume you are linking to This Table. (I can't get your link to work.) Those are "retraining synergies." For those classes it requires only 5 days to retrain (for example, fighter to ranger). If there is no synergy (fighter to cleric) you can still retrain but it takes a full 7 days.
Second - I think Secane is asking if s/he can retrain the cleric level directly to cleric instead of paying the costs for the three class features individually. The answer to that question is "no." You have to retrain to a different class first. So you could retrain to oracle (5 days) then back to cleric (5 more days).
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@Belafon , You got to the root of my question.
I'm trying to figure out would it be more economical to retrain a class feature of a 1 lv dip class a character of my has. Or would it be better to just retrain the whole lvl of that class.
So to retrain, you have to retrain to another class, before retraining back. In my case of Cleric to Oracle and back to Cleric or vice visa, that is at least 10pp.
Or
I could just spend 5 pp and gold to retrain that class feature.
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Yes, if your goal is to just retrain a class feature, then it is cheaper to just retrain that feature instead of going to a whole other class.
Yes, but the list of class features that CAN be retrained is pretty specific. If it isnt one of those, the entire level would need to be retrained.
Though that may be something Secane has already looked into.
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Found it. Two lines under the table.
When you retrain a class level, you lose all the benefits of the highest level you have in that class. You immediately select a different class, add a level in that class, and gain all the benefits of that new class level.
Emphasis mine.
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I do not own Ultimate Campaign, so I don't know what the actual rules are, Seth. You may indeed be right, but that seems ridiculous to me.
Oh, I completely agree. Especially when you take into consideration that the 'Retrain a class feature' part only lists certain ones that can be retrained. For example, and Oracle can retrain a Revelation, but not their Mystery. So as far as I can tell, if a player gets a Flame Oracle to 2.1 and then decides they want to be a Heavens Oracle instead, they would have to retrain both levels of Flame Oracle into something else, and retrain them back to Heavens Oracle, for the low low cost of 28 total Prestige. And some gold.
Yea. :\
Edit:
What I would relly love is for Mike or John to clarify that for purposes of retraining, going from Flame Oracle to Heavens Oracle (to continue the example) counts those Oracle types as different classes, so there doesnt need to be a middle step.
Venture-Captain, Germany—Hamburg
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2a) Can you pick up an archetype?
2b) Lose the one you had before?
2c) Swap one archetype for another?
Keep in mind that you can always pick up a new archetype if that archetype doesn't replace any class feature you already gained (you could, for example, change from standard rogue to scout rogue for free as long as you are 3rd level or lower).
Likewise, you can lose archetypes for free that don't affect the class features you already gained.
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You're doing it wrong - you don't retrain class levels to get "a new type of cleric".
You should be looking at retraining the Archetype and/or Class Features, which have specific rules on the same page Belafon linked.
To retrain an archetype, it's 5PP and gold for each class feature that you add/subtract/change.
To retrain a class feature, there's a specific list on that page. For clerics, it's a single domain (so retrain using this method twice to replace both domains), and it's 5PP per class feature.
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Specifically, I'm trying to retrain a level of Oracle. I took an archetype (dual-cursed) for RP purposes, but now that decision feels more of a handicap.
I don't have to retrain out that oracle level, I'm just looking at options and their costs.
I'm also asking about cleric, as my other character took a cleric dip and after leveling up, I realize his domains don't really suit him. I could spend 5 pp and gold to retrain one of the domains, but if it cost the same to retain the entire level of cleric, I would have more options.
Hence me asking about same class ----> same class retrain costs.
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To retrain Oracle (even an archetype) to another class, it's just 5pp per level if the new class synergises, or 7pp, plus the relevant gold cost.
Retraining the Cleric level to a synergy is 5pp as well (or 7pp if it doesn't), and since retraining the domain (a class feature) is 5pp, you're right, you can do that for an equal cost if it's just a 1 level cleric dip you're worrying about. From that list, you can retrain into a level of druid, inquisitor, oracle, paladin for 5pp if you prefer.
Sorry - I think I've misunderstood you. You're saying because retraining a class level and retraining a domain cost the same, why not retrain the whole level and get retraining on everything that the same level provides.
That's a bit of a weird quandry - seems like you've found a bit of a loophole in the retraining rules.
My guess is that because you're retraining more than a single class feature but less than a cleric > whatever > cleric, it'd likely just be a 7pp cost, which is about as half way as it gets. It'd take some fairly serious rules lawyering to say that's not reasonable.
You might be able to say 5pp, though that breaks half of the other retraining options.