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Hello fellow role-players, rules-lawyers, storm-winders, and path-finders!
I come to the boards wondering what race/class combo would make the best Tetsubo-based melee character.
Only rules for this are:
20PB
150starting gold
Viable at all levels
Preferably PFS legal, but if not I can find a homegame for it
No 3rd Party
Options other than just "Attack" or "Full Attack" or "Charge" or the like.
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Barbarian is always solid. Ditto Paladin. I'd go with one of those based on theme. Any race that adds to Str is also good, depending on exactly what you're looking for, though Half Elf and Human have a Feat advantage in regards to the necessary Exotic Weapon Proficiency, and you'll want Power Attack as your first Feat after that, obviously.
In terms of options, Improved Sunder works in-combat, and good skills are always solid. If you want more, a 2/3 casting Class could definitely work (Inquisitor and Alchemist are good Strength based melee characters, for example).
You really need to lay out more specifically what you're looking for, in order for people to be truly helpful.
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I was thinking the same thing as Deadmanwalking. I have a few ideas and thoughts, but what exactly are you wanting the character to be?
An Inquisitor of Yamatsumi would also get tetsubo proficiency for free, and if you play an Oni-spawn Tiefling it would be thematically appropriate to using the tetsubo and would give you bonuses to strength and wisdom both of which are ideal for an inquisitor. I was also thinking maybe you'd like something crit focused to take advantage of the x4.
But if I could get some more input on what you have in mind, I'd be more than happy to help :)
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I'm looking more for a character with
1:A good non-combat option or two
2:A good option in melee other than just making attacks
3:A good attack option with a tetsubo
4:If possible a way to "crit-fish" with the Tetsubo if possible
5:Decent defenses.
6:If possible, partial spellcasting or a similar effect in terms of versatility.
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Well, below is just an unfinished mock-up, but I would think something along these lines would work well for PFS. One downside with using Inquisitor is you can't take power-attack at first level.
I selected Inquisitor of Yamatsumi for divine spells and free tetsubo proficiency. Feats I would look at selecting as the character progresses are Antogonize, Bludgeoner, and Enforcer, as both would give you more options than just being a big dumb fighter and complement the weapon of choice nicely. You could create a rather effective tank with the combination of those feats and the divine spell-casting.
Unnamed Hero
Oni-Spawn Tiefling Inquisitor of Yamatsumi 1
N Medium outsider (native)
Init +1; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +7
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Defense
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AC 16, touch 11, flat-footed 15 (+5 armor, +1 Dex)
hp 10 (1d8+2)
Fort +4, Ref +1, Will +5
Resist cold 5, electricity 5, fire 5
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Offense
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Speed 20 ft.
Melee tetsubo +4 (1d10+6/×4)
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 1st; concentration -1)
. . 1/day—alter self
Inquisitor Spells Known (CL 1st; concentration +4):
1st (2/day)—magic weapon, shield of faith
0 (at will)—detect magic, guidance, read magic, stabilize
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Statistics
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Str 18, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 6
Base Atk +0; CMB +4; CMD 15
Feats Antagonize
Skills Bluff +7, Diplomacy +7, Heal +7, Intimidate +8, Perception +7, Sense Motive +8, Spellcraft +4
Languages Common, Infernal
SQ domains (conversion inquisition), fiendish sprinter, judgement 1/day), monster lore +3, prehensile tail
Other Gear kikko armor, tetsubo, inquisitor's kit, 70 gp
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Special Abilities
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Antagonize Use Diplomacy or Intimidate to goad creatures
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Energy Resistance, Cold (5) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Cold attacks.
Energy Resistance, Electricity (5) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Electricity attacks.
Energy Resistance, Fire (5) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Fire attacks.
Fiendish Sprinter 10-ft speed bonus when using charge, run or withdraw.
Inquisitor Domain (Conversion Inquisition) Deities: Any deity.
Granted Powers: You are a powerful persuader. A honeyed tongue empowered by divine argumentation sways the indifferent and adversarial to your side.
Judgement (1/day) (Su) Variable bonuses increase as the combat continues.
Monster Lore +3 (Ex) +3 to Knowledge checks when identifying the weaknessess of creatures.
Prehensile Tail Your tail can retrieve small objects on your person as a swift action.
Cleric of Yamatsumi. Get's Tetsubo for free. Obviously it's a spellcaster, and spiritual weapon makes a tetsubo out of force so there's that. Maybe take the crusader archetype for weapon focus early on, maybe dip monk later for crusader's flurry and flurry with said tetsubo.
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Cavalier works well for what you want to do. They act very much so similar to Paladins, but with less alignment restrictiveness and more horseness. The only real downside is the no casting that you wish to do.
Druid has less combat usefulness, and can't take proficiency in it till 3rd or so, but makes up for being awesome in almost every other area.
Fighter suffers from what's wrong with the Cavalier, but makes up in sheer base stats and feats. Find a handful of feats that you think are cool and run with them, such as Antagonize to make enemies attack you instead of your allies, or Dazzling Display for a debuff, or even grab skill focus.
Most classes can work when it comes to just a weapon anyway.
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@Sersi:Inquistor looks neat. Only issue I have with it is that it seems incredibly similar to the one I am playing in PFS currently. Might go with it, but I'd like to try something new
@haruhiko88:Cleric might work, but it is a bit low on skills and high on MAD, both of which aren't things I often look for. Crusader's Flurry could also be a neat way to go as well.
Also, I was wondering how a manufactured-weapon alchemist might work out. I know that alchemists are pretty strong in melee, but those builds are typically Feral Mutagen natural attack focused builds. Anyone tried this?
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Warpiest of Yamatsumi.Are the play-test classes PFS legal? If so, I like that idea.Absolutely.
I play a Qlippoth-Spawn Tiefling Warpriest, who fight with Clubs in PFS.
Well awesome, then I highly recommend an Oni-spawn Tiefling Warpriest of Yamatsumi on grounds of flavor, mythological context, and mechanics.
Of course, there is the downside that until August we don't have any archetypes and such for the new classes...
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Warpiest of Yamatsumi.Are the play-test classes PFS legal? If so, I like that idea.Absolutely.
I play a Qlippoth-Spawn Tiefling Warpriest, who fight with Clubs in PFS.
Well awesome, then I highly recommend an Oni-spawn Tiefling Warpriest of Yamatsumi on grounds of flavor, mythological context, and mechanics.
Of course, there is the downside that until August we don't have any archetypes and such for the new classes...
I like the idea, but I'd rather wait on the Warpriest [in addition to the Investigator and Brawler] until August so that I know about the Major Changes. IIRC It seemed like the MADness of the class was in debate and might change, and that Sacred Weapon would change, so I'd like to wait until I know what the changes are, so I don't wind up wasting a bunch of point-buy into a stat that turns out to be useless or all-but-useless, or if I need to change it in any other major change. I know that happened from the 1st to the 2nd document, making a Warpriest who dumped CHA go from perfectly fine to missing out on one of the best class features.
You could play an Oracle with the Battle mystery. Pick up the Skill at Arms revelation plus EWP at level 1, then at 3rd get Weapon Mastery. That will give you Improved Critical for free at level 8 (or level 6, if you're an Elf or Aasimar and use their special favored class bonus).
Or, you could be a cleric of Yamatsumi with Channel Smite, then dip into Monk with Crusader's Flurry so you can Flurry with a tetsubo.
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You could play an Oracle with the Battle mystery. Pick up the Skill at Arms revelation plus EWP at level 1, then at 3rd get Weapon Mastery. That will give you Improved Critical for free at level 8 (or level 6, if you're an Elf or Aasimar and use their special favored class bonus).
Or, you could be a cleric of Yamatsumi with Channel Smite, then dip into Monk with Crusader's Flurry so you can Flurry with a tetsubo.
Oracle might be nice, though to use it from 1 to 3 I'd need to be half-elf[which, fortunately, is one of the best oracle races, because Paragon Surge]. What curse would be advised for this?
Also, again I ask how might an Alchemist do with this?
Inquisitor is a good option, you could also play a half elf with the ancestral weaponry racial option. At that point anything is good. Ranger would be really nice with lead blades and chug down a potion of enlarge person. At this point you just say "McGwire swings for the bleachers!" If you feel any need to you can dip 2 titan mauler and dual wield at the massive -6 penalty and just mainline strength as much as you can.
Cleric of Yamatsumi. Get's Tetsubo for free. Obviously it's a spellcaster, and spiritual weapon makes a tetsubo out of force so there's that. Maybe take the crusader archetype for weapon focus early on, maybe dip monk later for crusader's flurry and flurry with said tetsubo.
If spellcasting isn't that important the crusader archetype might be worth looking at. The bonus feat could be used to get weapon focus or heavy armor prof.
If I was to build him I'd go dwarf and take heavy armor prof as bonus feat.For the domain I'd take the earth (caves) domain. That gives you a very fitting and strong spell (create pit), a ranged attack without needing to switch weapons (acid dart) and the tunnel runner power you get at level 8 is nice, too.
Later it might be worth it to dip into stonelord for 2 or 3 levels.
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Cleric and Inquisitor both look neat, but I'm a bit reluctant on both for a couple of reasons:
1:Cleric both has some high expectations[based on skills and healing abilities] in my common gaming group and local PFS shop, and it is incredibly low on skill potential, which is something I would like, even more than spellcasting.
2:Inquisitor is a great class, one of my favorites. So much so, that I already have 2 active Inquisitors on my number. I'd like to try something new with this build [as I said before].
That said, I still might go back to one if being a non-half-elf becomes important due to a racial or feat issue.
So, looking into other options:
Alchemist:I haven't played many of these, and all of them have either been Feral Combat Training Mutagen PC's or [more often] Rapidshot Fast Bombers, so a Manufactured weapon buffer would be different at least a bit, and I think might be quite interesting, but I'm not sure what discoveries are worth it, and am not sure about archetypes either.
Oracle:I don't have too many PFS oracles, and they are mostly casting focused [other than one coming up that is Animal Companion focused], and out of PFS my only Oracle was a heal-focused PC, so this might be interesting. Looking into battle, there are a lot of good revelations and curses, in addition to some neat stuff in Metal and Wood.
Fighters and Cavaliers:Eh, they are both Full BAB classes whose options are almost all either full attack, charge, attack, or burn a bunch of resources into a situational option. Cavalier is a bit better, though I don't particularly like the Horseness, skill tax, or charging focus of the class.
Druid:Not too much of a fan of the class myself. Limits armor choices, has weird and restrictive weapon proficiencies, and has a weird spell list. In addition to that, it has only 2 skills each level, so I think I'd like to pass.
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Looking into some of the options here:
Human Inquisitor of Yamatsumi
Str16
Dex14
Con14
Int10
Wis14
Cha10
Feats:
1:Bludgeoner
1:Enforcer
Spells:
0:Acid Splash
0:Light
0:Read Magic
0:Detect Magic
1:Wrath
1:Cure Light Wounds
This looks different than my others[one's a Sword-n-Board with a tricked out initiative and the other had his feats taken up by trying to throw StarKnives. Uses intimidate in combat[plan on getting Antagonize @ 5 if I go with this, if I have the AC to take them being forced to attack me, but for now shaken is a nice debuff], and has different spells than my others. Might go with something like this.
Str16
Dex14
Con14
Int10
Wis10
Cha14
Feats:
1:Exotic Weapon Proficiency[Tetsubo]
1:Antagonize
Spells:
0:Read Magic
0:Detect Magic
0:Light
0:Stabilize
1:Divine Favor
1:Shield of Faith
1:Cure Light Wounds
Revelations:
War Sight
Its nothing special, but it has got some potential later on [when stuff like Weapon Mastery really come into play]. Different from most of my other oracles[which generally have a caster focus], so I don't have too much to say.
Str16
Dex14
Con14
Int14
Wis10
Cha10
Feats:
1:Throw Anything
1:Extra Bombs
1:Exotic Weapon Proficiency[Tetsubo]
1:Combat Expertise
Extracts Commonly Prepared:
1:Enlarge Person
1:Cure Light Wounds
I figure I'll take Improved Trip at some point, to give me an additional thing to do in combat. Still not sure on discoveries in the future, though I suspect 2 will be Infusion. Still don't know where this would go beyond 3.
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warpriest...
I like the idea, but I'd rather wait on the Warpriest [in addition to the Investigator and Brawler] until August so that I know about the Major Changes. IIRC It seemed like the MADness of the class was in debate and might change, and that Sacred Weapon would change, so I'd like to wait until I know what the changes are, so I don't wind up wasting a bunch of point-buy into a stat that turns out to be useless or all-but-useless, or if I need to change it in any other major change. I know that happened from the 1st to the 2nd document, making a Warpriest who dumped CHA go from perfectly fine to missing out on one of the best class features.
It also has only 2 skill ranks each level, and has Int as one of its only non-prioritized stats, so skills won't be too common.
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My PFS tetsubo wielder is a half-orc rogue with the skulking slayer and scout archetypes. My plan is to use the Bludgeoner, Sap Adept, and Sap Master feats to nonlethal damage his way to victory. Currently only 5th level and still missing Sap Master, but still effective thus far.
My first two rogue talents were Minor Magic and Major Magic so that I can now cast Enlarge Person on myself 2x/day. My next will be Offensive Defense since that will provide a significant boost to my AC once I pick up Sap Master. It's pretty fun.
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I'm not sure why you'd consider a warpriest mad... just put minimal points into the casting stat then go like normal melee...
besides PFS doesn't require crazy optimization to do well.
Because I need minimal wisdom points, true, I only need a 13-14 to start. But then I need around that in Con as well, for HP for a frontliner, and a 10-12 Dex for Init and AC, and around a 14ish Cha for fervor and a 14-16 in STR for melee, and the points add up quick. Also can't dump Int unless you don't want skills[which are important to me to have a decent handful]. Still, it is a good point that too much optimization isn't needed in PFS. Perhaps I'll consider it some more.
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My PFS tetsubo wielder is a half-orc rogue with the skulking slayer and scout archetypes. My plan is to use the Bludgeoner, Sap Adept, and Sap Master feats to nonlethal damage his way to victory. Currently only 5th level and still missing Sap Master, but still effective thus far.
My first two rogue talents were Minor Magic and Major Magic so that I can now cast Enlarge Person on myself 2x/day. My next will be Offensive Defense since that will provide a significant boost to my AC once I pick up Sap Master. It's pretty fun.
I've thought about that before myself. But I have experimented with Skulking Slayer Scouts before, and found that while its great in-combat, out-of-combat it is lackluster compared to the regular rogue. It is great in my Mythic campaign currently, but the party keeps wishing we had a "real" rogue for one[a rogue who handles traps and such], and for another the character minus all of the mythic would mean that due to lower chances to sneak attack[especially in PFS], I think I'd fall behind a bit. Still, rogue is an interesting [albeit spell-free] option, having a use for things like Dirty Trick and Feinting.
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Scout lets me treat the target as flat-footed whenever I charge so it's less difficult to get sneak attack than for other rogues. And at 8th level, I'll be able to get the same whenever I move more than 10 feet in a round. I agree about the lack of Trapfinding and Disable Device. I have an Adamantine Tetsubo that I call my "Master Key" for that reason, but it's not the same. Still fun, though.
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I think the Skulking Slayer is good out of combat. He's got the skills for it. But you're right he's more combat focused than others.Yes, but you still are a rogue, and are deliberately weakening your one niche in exchange for filling the fighter's role. Don't get me wrong, I love my Skulking Slayer Scout, but he has the 2nd least HP, terrible AC, bad saves, and [due to a strange party make-up] has a relatively low out-of-combat use [he is the party's scout, but unfortunately the paladin exceeds his stealth due to shenanigans, and my perception isn't exactly stellar either]. If I were to do rogue, I'd probably just be a scout or vanilla rogue.
Scout lets me treat the target as flat-footed whenever I charge so it's less difficult to get sneak attack than for other rogues. And at 8th level, I'll be able to get the same whenever I move more than 10 feet in a round. I agree about the lack of Trapfinding and Disable Device. I have an Adamantine Tetsubo that I call my "Master Key" for that reason, but it's not the same. Still fun, though.
Yeah, "Master Key" isn't the same. But its a brilliant idea. In fact, I might do this with my current skulking slayer scout[but not with tetsubo].