I came to PFS from a competing product that did not have levels or alignment or detect spells.
I dislike Detect spells because RAW they can be used as radar, which is meta-gaming, and I specifically request my players agree to make a concerted effort not to meta-game.
I just want to do away with all detect spells (or make them many levels higher to justify the radar-like power).
I realize it makes it very difficult for players to know what to pick up and loot, but it's a simple enough step by the GM to describe things in a way that prepares the player.
What unforeseen consequences might I be creating by doing this?
(I would probably keep the Paladin's ability to detect evil, and similar class-based, spell-like abilities that are specific class features.
I dislike Detect spells because RAW they can be used as radar, which is meta-gaming, and I specifically request my players agree to make a concerted effort not to meta-game.
How do you mean "used as radar?" You have to study an area or object for 3 rounds before you can even tell where the aura of [magic, evil, whatever] is coming from, and even then you can't see it.
Detect evil doesn't provide a cheap and effective way of fighting evil invisible creatures, for example; you basically have to stand there doing nothing for three rounds -- at best, walk slowly -- and then take 50% miss chances with every attack you make.
In addition, as soon as you start fighting the invisible enemy, you are no longer concentrating as the spell requires. Nothing in the spell description suggests that after three rounds you have "target lock" and can effortlessly follow the aura as it moves.
You have partially identified your problem. Now you need to narrow it to focus on the specific issues your having.
Which specific spells and what problem are they specifically causing?
When you make broad changes, it typically has far-reaching and often missed consequences.
I'll try to help if you're willing to provide this information. I may have Lready instituted solutions in my home game for some of your problems, others may have as well.
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I think you should re-read the rules for the detection spells, and check all they special game terms (such as "concentration") to make sure you haven't missed anything.
I do know that a lot of GMs groan about detect spells, specifically Detect Magic and Detect Evil. The others are very circumstantial or not spammable.
However, once you realize that Detect Evil has limitations - it doesn't detect evil things with less than 5HD unless they're evil outsiders, evil clergy or undead. Then Detect Evil becomes less abusive.
And Detect Magic reveals the presence of magic, but isn't a "spot invisible free" card - it doesn't negate miss chance! And determining what school or even spell something is, is actually a fairly hard Arcana/Spellcraft check. It's not trivial at all.
I don't have a specific problem, as yet, because I'm not running a home campaign.
But I play PFS, and there are players who have printed out a "This is what we do at doors" list, which includes casting Detect Magic before they open any door.
Basically, there is nothing preventing players from casting Detect Magic every step they take and taking 18 seconds. In PFS, I've made people roll perception with detect anyway, because you have to look in the right place with your cone of detection, and you might miss something with the cone if you're using it as radar outside the door.
From a roleplaying standpoint, Detect spells destroy continuity for me, because the world is supposed to be mysterious and dangerous. But if every two-bit village cleric has Detect Evil and uses it like players do, the world gets a whole lot less mysterious.
And just for example, I played that competing RPG whose initials include R and Q, and there was no detection spell and no one missed it. It's a crutch peculiar to this system, like levels and classes. I have to live with those latter if I intend to be in PF (and I do; I love Golarion), but I don't see the problem with eliminating Detect Magic.
For detect magic, use spellcraft and yank the spell. The same DC to identify a magic item's properties can also be used to determine if it is magical to begin with. I do something simIlar in my campaign.
For detect evil and similar alignment detection spells, they only work on individuals with an aura similar to a cleric or paladin and creatures with an alignment subtype.
Again, these are not exactly what I use, as I'm posting from my phone, but they should give you ideas to solve the problem - whether they're good or bad suggestions varies by perspective, of course.
Detect magic can be fooled by basic spells like magic aura. That means permanent magical traps are easily hidden by their creators.
It's also easy to block: An iron door in a stone wall completely blocks detect magic, meaning they can't see the magic items worn by the guards on the other side without opening the door.
It's also easy to block: An iron door in a stone wall completely blocks detect magic, meaning they can't see the magic items worn by the guards on the other side without opening the door.
I want to be clear: I'm amused not by your solution, but how my players have reacted to it in the past.
In one of my early campaigns (AD&D 2e), if it wasn't bolted down, they were going to try and steal it.
So they would have stolen the door?
Oh, I should add that outside of detect magic in general, and detect evil for paladins, detect spells cost a spell slot. If the PCs use that spell slot to cast detect chaos instead of using it on something like bless or magic weapon, then they have paid a cost and deserve to get a little information in exchange.
So they would have stolen the door?
Oh, they did - it wasnt just iron, but jewel encrusted and so on. Don't get me wrong, the first incident was decades ago and I've grown as a GM and am much more competent and capable at handling these things now- I just fondly recall these moments of my own ignorance and player behavior whenever I design a location and whatnot these days.
I know what you mean; your player group is probably not a swarm of homicidal, well-armed, kleptomaniacs with monkey-like levels of "do something stupid to see what happens," but an experienced (some would say jaded) GM eventually starts designing his adventures in case they are.
I've GMed for my current group for the past twelve years, all mature professionals in a variety of field and like you said, to this day I stll plan for it.
I dislike Detect spells because RAW they can be used as radar, which is meta-gaming, and I specifically request my players agree to make a concerted effort not to meta-game.
I'm sure the US Navy would be interested to hear that radar is metagaming. They regard it as a tactical tool to detect threats, a tool that is of key importance to the survivability of their forces.
They have, several of them.
But it seems odd that while admirals and captains can be concerned about whether or not they're going to make it home alive when they get into dangerous territory, somehow it's inappropriate for barbarians and wizards to have the same concerns.
Da'ath: On closer inspection I can sum up that GMing philosophy with "What would a chimp armed with a screwdriver and a hand grenade do to this plot?"
I'd hand out faith bracelets to my group, but WWCAWS&HGD doesn't come out too legibly.
If I'd have been drinking my coffee when I read this post, it would have come out my nose. Well done sir, and agreed!