This came up in a game i'm in. I'm pretty sure I understand it, but I wanted to be sure. Please let me know if any of these statements seem incorrect-
Spells like Alter Self and Disguise Self do not allow you to assume the form of a specific creature. They also grant a bonus to the Disguise skill.
The Disguise skill can be used to pretend to be a specific creature.
When using the Disguise skill to pretend to be a specific creature you still get the bonus from the spell. It is the skill that allows it. The magic is making it easier by more closely matching your shape to that of the creature being copied.
Is that correct?
Correct.
The question is, would you get the bonus to the Disguise skill from the spell even when using the skill to make yourself look like a specific creature.
The spells don't let you look like a specific creature, but they give a bonus to the skill, which does.
That leads me to believe that the magic can be used to give yourself an easier "starting point" by looking like a creature of the same general shape and size as the one you are trying to emulate with the skill.
I'd like to piggyback on this for a Disguise question of my own.
What skill check is it to emulate someone else's voice?
Disguise?
Linguistics?
Bluff?
Perform (oratory)?
Any of the above? I assume you take a penalty if your race and gender identity are different (eg a feminine gnome would have to be really good at her check to emulate the voice of a masculine human).
And do spells like disguise self alter your voice as well as your appearance?
I think Bluff covers that. There's also This Spell.
Mimicry is one of those weird parts of the rules that isn't really covered by any mundane skill, at least not to my knowledge.
Great find-- thanks!
In relation to the OP, I think that you're right in that the spells give you a starting point: a dark-haired, heavyset half-elf body would be enough to fool a casual acquaintance if it's dark outside, for example. For more detailed disguise, you would need to adopt vocal tics or clothing style or mannerisms, perhaps wearing your hair in specific styles-- I see those as being outside the realm of "disguise self" but within the character's means.
I'm not sure on the RAW, but it seems reasonable that you could use alter self/disguise self to get your physical body to be the same as the specific person you were trying to impersonate.
However, I might rule a little different than you.
I would rule that disguise self would allow you to negate the penalties for different race (if same size category), gender, and age category. I would however remove the bonus to the disguise skill because you are trying to pass yourself off as a specific indivdiual not just a general member of a race. I would allow you to use the bonus to disguise to appear as that general race. So you might fool someone into thinking you're an elf, but not into thinking you're Merisiel.
If you used alter self you could remove race, and size penalties.
And my decision is based on this:
If you were a female elf of approximately the same age as Merisiel you would wouldn't take any of the penalties listed in the disguise skill. Consequently you would get the bonus for only "minor chages" like height, hair color, etc.
Why should magic that effecitvely turns you into a female elf of the same approximate age give you a bigger bonus than being a female elf of the same age, to look like the specific elf Merisiel. At best I would remove the penalties, and if you have the details on how someone looks and can specify the details with the magic of the spell you could get the +5 for "minor details".
I think disguise self lets you appear to be a specific person.
You make yourself - including clothing, armor, weapons, and equipment - look different. You can seem 1 foot shorter or taller, thin, fat, or in between. You cannot change your creature type (although you can appear as another subtype). Otherwise, the extent of the apparent change is up to you. You could add or obscure a minor feature or look like an entirely different person or gender.
Only the polymorph rules say you can't replicate a specific form, and since Disguise Self isn't a polymorph spell, it should be fine.
I think disguise self lets you appear to be a specific person.
You make yourself - including clothing, armor, weapons, and equipment - look different. You can seem 1 foot shorter or taller, thin, fat, or in between. You cannot change your creature type (although you can appear as another subtype). Otherwise, the extent of the apparent change is up to you. You could add or obscure a minor feature or look like an entirely different person or gender.Only the polymorph rules say you can't replicate a specific form, and since Disguise Self isn't a polymorph spell, it should be fine.
It's not the spell that is letting you replicate a person. It's the skill. The spell is just helping because it lets you "start closer" so to speak.
Disguise check to match the voice and appearance (plus anything covered by the five traditional senses), but a Bluff check would still be needed to mask speaking false words. I suppose I good disguise would make some of the bluffs more plausible.