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Hi all,
As a thief Mersiel can get the ability to "use Charisma in place of any skill on any check to recharge an armor, item, or weapon with the magic trait".
Initially, this sounded great, so I thought I'd put two skill feats into charisma to increase the effectiveness of that ability. However, looking through the cards I found very few armor/item/weapon cards that have the magic trait and can be recharged through a check.
On a quick search I found only Wand of Force missiles and Wand of Scorching Ray and both of these require an 8 to succeed. If I put two skill feats in charisma, I still only succeed on a 6 (unless I use blessings or other cards to boost the check), so the risk of failing the check is very high.
At first I throught the ability sounded great, now I feel its usefullness is so limited that it's more or less useless.
Have I misinterpreted the ability somehow? Or missed a bunch of cards that I can recharge?
Thanks in advance!
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Wand of Shield, Holy Water, Luckstone, Greater Luckstone, Sihedron Medallion, Amulet of Life, Necklace of Fireballs, Wand of Treasure Finding.
There may be even more that don't come to mind quickly (My game is setup for the Perils of the Lost Coast adventure, so I don't have all items easily accessible)
Mind you, I agree that it's underwhelming since Charisma isn't one of Merisiel's good skills, but there are a lot of options if you decide to take that feat
I also don't know why they specify that you can use the feat for armours and weapons. As far as I know, these two types never have recharge checks (the card templates don't even have recharge boxes)
I think that they were just covering their bases with this one. Maybe in the future they will have an armor or weapon that will have a recharge instead of discarding or burying effect.
Vic has said that their are a few instances of them adding in text that does not currently affect the game, such as the craft skill and the finesse trait.
Wand of Enervation too. That alone might make that power of hers power worth it if you don't have an arcane skilled character in your group. "Succeed at an Arcane 8 check to recharge this card instead of burying it."
Yeah, she would still have to roll pretty high and she might even want to start carrying a Blessing of Desna or two. But given that it is recharge instead of bury and how powerful the Wand of Enervation is, taking that power and playing a blessing to recharge it would be totally worth it my opinion.
I think the big benefit for her is going to be on the items that would normally be buried. I'd if you avoided increasing her weapon count too much, you could give her a Necklace of Fireballs to go with that power. Since she has to start with an item, that would give her a better shot at having some offense in her hand draw. And with that power, you have a chance to recharge it.
As for the Weapons and Armors, we've still got 2 decks to go. And that could also be included in her power to help "future proof" her in other adventure paths.
For wand of enervation you're talking about a 2d4 vs a d12 from just using a blessing on herself. I guess you could make the case that the wand works on stuff like, say, Sirens, but those are edge cases. Probably better just to use the blessing for an Erastil and save your deck for something else instead of throwing blessings for a better (but not guaranteed) chance of seeing the wand maybe one or two extra times during a scenario.
I was also really let down by the useless of her Charisma recharge. I don't have the cards in front of me, but I'm almost certain that Merisiel has no chance of recharging almost all of those items without a blessing. Isn't even the regular luckstone a 9 recharge? As for the ones she can recharge (wand of force/shield are 8s?) what a colossal waste of a precious power feat for items that aren't even that good in the hands of a character that's actually meant to use them.
Except that Merisiel can't even try to attempt the check to recharge Wand or Enervation or anything else that requires Arcane.
Even if your character doesn’t have any of the skills listed for a check, you can still attempt the check (unless you’re trying to recharge a card; see Recharge on page 16), but your die is a d4.
Usually, recharging requires a skill check; if you don’t have at least one of the skills listed for the check, you cannot attempt to recharge the card.
So she could never attempt the Arcane check to recharge a card. Her Charisma power makes the recharge attempt possible via the rules. Otherwise, she always has to bury it.
Interesting. I had not seen this clarification on recharging. I guess her power does make an interesting variation. I wonder if you planned to go that route from the beginning how effect you could be. Think about an ally and item based Merisiel with a plus 2 to Charisma. You would use items, such as Wand of Enervation, Wand of Scorching Ray, and Necklace of Fireballs, instead of weapons for combat checks. As a Thief, it would be easier to acquire these items as well. I might have to try something interesting like this.
Does anyone know if a Merisiel like this works at all? Probably an unlikely play style.
I don't know. My wife took Acrobat in our doubles group because it seemed to fit better with the other characters. But if you were in a group with no arcane skill, I think Thief would perhaps be a better fit. Or even in a small group with arcane skill, but not a lot of items slots to go around.
For instance, if you had Seoni, but no Lem or Ezren, you'd probably be hard pressed to want to take too many item feats for Seoni, since she has so few spells to start with. And since you might want to give her a Staff or Healing or a Staff of Heaven and Earth, having a Merisiel would could also recharge some of those items with the Magic trait would be a good idea.
I think the role cards show lots of interesting combinations with other characters in the groups, and could be "stronger" or "weaker" based on that. For instance, in our doubles group of Ezren, Sajan, Merisiel, and Amiri, we don't have a Divine spell caster. So Sajan took Drunken Master to give us access to some rechargeable Potions, not the least of which being Potion of Healing. Merisiel took Acrobat so she could leave evaded cards on top of the location deck, that way she wouldn't cost Ezren a spell or Amiri a weapon.
But in other groups, I could easily see Zen Archer Sajan being more valuable, especially a group without Harsk or Merisiel. And likewise I could see Thief Merisiel in a group that didn't have as large a range of higher skills, since she can help with closing locations and the rechargeable magic items.
I think that playing as much as I have now has given me a little more perspective. I am going to want to really dig into each of the characters in S&S before making my decisions on which one to play fist. I am really liking my Lem and Lini right now, but I think that these two are very similar in the way that they function.
But... S&S doesn't come out for a while, so I am thinking about interesting ways to play roles, skills, and powers. This odd Merisiel is one of the ones that I would like to look into playing, now. I think that you could actually create a pretty powerful item and ally Merisiel if you could get the correct cards. It is a little dependent on that, of course.
I was also thinking of the Zen Archer Sajan. It just seems so hard to get there since you start with no weapons. I have always thought that the Drunken Master was better, because you could finally make potions useful. I just figured he would gain the craft skill, though. That would have made him truly useful. There are a few characters that you would really need to invest all of your feats up front to make them useful when you get to A3 or A4.
So she could never attempt the Arcane check to recharge a card. Her Charisma power makes the recharge attempt possible via the rules. Otherwise, she always has to bury it.
I don't think anything in my post should've given the impression that I didn't know this. When I'm talking about using blessings, I'm talking about using blessings to amp her charisma for the recharge which, even with 3d6, isn't a guarantee that it'd recharge in the first place. Putting blessings in your deck to recharge one card that makes a check easier (2d4) instead of just applying a better blessing (erastil: 2d12) directly to your check seems like a colossal waste.
I know Merisiel can't recharge the card normally. When I say "one or two extra" times I'm talking about in addition to the one you'd normally get before you bury it, which you really probably wouldn't use--as any character other than Seoni, who has a guaranteed recharge, or maybe Erezen--on anything but the villain anyway, so the recharge is almost moot.
I use Wand of Enervation and Necklace of Fireballs on my Lem, and regularly play those 2 to 3 times a Scenario, because I am also running 2 Cures, which allows you to shuffle up your deck, which is the only reason that they are really there. I recharge them to get them on the bottom, and then shuffle around my deck to bring them back to me.
So she could never attempt the Arcane check to recharge a card. Her Charisma power makes the recharge attempt possible via the rules. Otherwise, she always has to bury it.I don't think anything in my post should've given the impression that I didn't know this. When I'm talking about using blessings, I'm talking about using blessings to amp her charisma for the recharge which, even with 3d6, isn't a guarantee that it'd recharge in the first place. Putting blessings in your deck to recharge one card that makes a check easier (2d4) instead of just applying a better blessing (erastil: 2d12) directly to your check seems like a colossal waste.
I know Merisiel can't recharge the card normally. When I say "one or two extra" times I'm talking about in addition to the one you'd normally get before you bury it, which you really probably wouldn't use--as any character other than Seoni, who has a guaranteed recharge, or maybe Erezen--on anything but the villain anyway, so the recharge is almost moot.
Ah. I slightly misunderstood then.
For wand of enervation you're talking about a 2d4 vs a d12 from just using a blessing on herself.
When you said that I thought you were saying you'd rather just attempt the Arcane recharge check with 2d4 by playing a blessing on her unwritten d4 Arcane. But you were saying you'd rather carry a blessing than the wand. My apologies for that.
Indeed, stocking blessings for a recharge check might not be the best option. But, since her "blessing power" is that she can recharge any blessing when used for her Dexterity, it might be something to consider not carrying Erastil, since she could have her d12, some skill feats, a weapon, and her sneak attack. And she can recharge any blessing on that combat dexterity check. And maybe a headband of Alluring Charisma would help with the recharge check too. Or having Lem in your group. Or carrying a Troubador. Or some Blessing of Iomedae.
Those all might require too much "setup" to get those cards in hand to attempt the recharge. But its something to think about. I'm not talking from experience on this, since I don't play Merisiel and the one Merisiel I have played with took the other role.
Thanks for all the answers, insights and thoughs shared.
I really have to think about which role I'll put my Mersiel into now. At first Thief seemed great since I assumed that the Charisma recharge would be useful, now it seems to me that it's not worth the power (and skill) feats, those points are better spent elswhere as it is now.
You may use Charisma in place of any skill on any check to recharge an armor, item, or weapon with the Magic trait
From how I read it. Sounds like regardless rather it normally is rechargeable or not as long as it's has magic trait. That she could roll and recharge it. Which would be an excellent ability. Trade off being depending what is you won't make your check... but it doesn't say that that you have to win the check.
That's my thought.
Good luck.
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You may use Charisma in place of any skill on any check to recharge an armor, item, or weapon with the Magic trait
From how I read it. Sounds like regardless rather it normally is rechargeable or not as long as it's has magic trait. That she could roll and recharge it. Which would be an excellent ability. Trade off being depending what is you won't make your check... but it doesn't say that that you have to win the check.
That's my thought.
Good luck.
I'm not too sure what your thought is, but all Merisiel's power does is turn, for example, a Divine 8 recharge check into a Charisma/Divine 8 recharge check. She doesn't automatically succeed like Seoni does. In fact, since recharge checks are tuned towards their target audience's good dice and Merisiel's Charisma is average at best, chances are she will almost never succeed at a Charisma recharge check without expending unnecessary resources.
Reviving this thread to point out a combo I'd noticed. If Merisiel takes her Charisma recharge power, she can also get help from an Acolyte.
Recharge this card to add 1d4 to your Arcane or Divine check.
Recharge this card to add 1d6 to your check to recharge a card with the Magic trait.
Since she'll be recharging the Acolyte for its power and then (hopefully) recharging the card she was attempting the recharge check on, they will be in order in her deck when she cycles through again.
And her "solo combat" power means she can make use of the Acolyte for her power too. And the Acolyte's first power can be used if she has an item like Wand of Scorching Ray or something that has the Arcane trait.
None of that is anything I've tried, just something I noticed and thought I'd share for those with Thief Merisiel.
Reviving this thread to point out a combo I'd noticed. If Merisiel takes her Charisma recharge power, she can also get help from an Acolyte.
While that's true, Merisel is way better off with a Troubadour. He'll add a 1d6 to any noncombat Charisma check OR Dexterity check (which for Merisel includes Acrobatics, Stealth, and Disable).
Reviving this thread to point out a combo I'd noticed. If Merisiel takes her Charisma recharge power, she can also get help from an Acolyte.While that's true, Merisel is way better off with a Troubadour. He'll add a 1d6 to any noncombat Charisma check OR Dexterity check (which for Merisel includes Acrobatics, Stealth, and Disable).
This is true. Hmm. I may need to try this build at some point. It sounds really strange and fun.
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I'm about to finish up deck 6 with my main two characters, and I think i'll start back from the beginning using Ranzak, Merisiel, and two more that I haven't decided on yet. Possibly Kyra and Seoni, though perhaps Valeros since he would synergize very well with Ranzak. Any suggestions?
Ranzak and Merisiel in the same party? They will just be fighting each other over the same cards the whole time. They are very similar characters. They both want the ranged weapon and any useful items they can get.
My wife and I have been playing Ranzak, Valeros, Seoni, and Lini, and are having a ton of fun. Ranzak can support the whole party, for the most part with his ability to acquire almost anything in the early game. You will also encounter Junk Beach and General Store pretty often in the early game, and he can close both of those locations in 1 or 2 turns. Regularly I go through the General Store, including the d6 items, in 1 turn.
I'm about to finish up deck 6 with my main two characters, and I think i'll start back from the beginning using Ranzak, Merisiel, and two more that I haven't decided on yet. Possibly Kyra and Seoni, though perhaps Valeros since he would synergize very well with Ranzak. Any suggestions?
You definitely want Ranzak with a great combat person. I am currently running a 4 character group solo with Ranzak, Valeros, Lem and Seelah. Its been pretty darn awesome so far. If I had to drop one from the group, it would likely be Lem, but its nice to have the cures and an outlet for any great spells we recover. Not to mention the check boosts when they are all at the same location. The downside if they are at the same location is Lem becomes one of the possible targets for Ranzak's random monster aversion.
You could certainly use Kyra in place of Lem and/or Merisiel in place of Seelah without much change in the dynamic here, I think.
I usually run Ranzak through a location by himself. I am not to adventure 3, yet, so the difficulty might not have increased high enough, yet. I find that with 4 weapons in his deck, he usually picks up one, and mine has a DLC+1, and 2 Heavy Crossbows, so he doesn't hurt in combat, especially with Dex+3. His evade is the power than I use the least, actually. Also, I have an armor, Sihedron Medallion, and Arcane Armor, so I am not super afraid of taking a lot of damage.
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Hmm... fair points, both of you. Perhaps I'll go out of my comfort zone and try *blech* Seelah the Paladin. I HATE that she has Armor as her favored card, and her powers are very "meh" to me, but I should give her a shot. With her and Ranzak at the same location, I'm sure they could handle most anything sent at them.
So, perhaps Ranzak, Seelah, Seoni, and either Lem or Kyra?
I felt the same way about Seelah. But after having her in a group I've reconsidered. It's funny. Initially when I looked at all the characters the two worst powers I thought were Amirir's bury-a-card power and Seelah's move-a-boon-to-the-bottom power. But they only sound bad. Used correctly, they are awesome.
And both Seelah's roles allow her to upgrade her power to place it under the top card. So if it is really an awesome boon, you can pick it up next exploration (or leave it for your friends if it is a boon you couldn't acquire).
Just think of how quickly she'll help you banish basic and elite cards by putting them behind the henchman. And not only that, it saves you an exploration.
Wouldn't the card just go back to the box if you put it behind the henchman?... no...
Crud - we've been mourning not getting to cards so we can banish them! Thanks!
Wouldn't the card just go back to the box if you put it behind the henchman?... no...
Crud - we've been mourning not getting to cards so we can banish them! Thanks!
When you permanently close a location, you banish any cards remaining in the location deck.
If you succeed at meeting the When Closing requirement, search through the location deck, take out any villains, and banish the other cards.
It is only locations that are temporarily closed or open when the scenario ends that are "put back in the box". The reason being because they never get banished and are still on the table when the scenario ends.
But, unless I'm missing something, you also banish boons by not getting them. It's kinda irrelevant whether the Dagger is behind the henchman or not, because Seelah can just be like "I don't roll for it" and chuck it away.
Seelah seems really cool though, however she's maybe the slowest starter of the bunch. Needs to get a bigger hand size and magical armor to function properly. But access to free scouting, especially once you're putting the card below the top card, is always great. No more "that thing you really wanted goes right back into the box."
But, unless I'm missing something, you also banish boons by not getting them. It's kinda irrelevant whether the Dagger is behind the henchman or not, because Seelah can just be like "I don't roll for it" and chuck it away.
Seelah seems really cool though, however she's maybe the slowest starter of the bunch. Needs to get a bigger hand size and magical armor to function properly. But access to free scouting, especially once you're putting the card below the top card, is always great. No more "that thing you really wanted goes right back into the box."
That is true. But Seelah doesn't waste an exploration on that Dagger you don't want. She moves it behind the henchman/villain then explores.
Here is Amiri:
Amiri explores for free. Its a Dagger. She doesn't want it, so she doesn't attempt the check to acquire it and banishes it.
Amiri plays a blessing to explore again. Its an awesome Sword. She attempts the check to acquire it.
It took Amiri a blessing to get to that sword.
Here is Seelah in the same location:
Seelah activates her power at the start of the turn. Oh. Its a Dagger. I have to put that on the bottom of the location deck.
Seelah explores for free. Its an awesome sword. She attempts the check to acquire it.
Later Seelah defeats the henchman and closes the location, banishing the Dagger, which you choose to remove from the game.
Now pretend the awesome swords was on top. Once she has that power upgrade it goes like this:
Amiri
Amiri explores for free. Its an awesome sword. She acquires it.
Amiri plays a blessing to explore again. It is a monster, she defeats it.
Seelah
Seelah activates her power at the start of the turn. Oh. Its an awesome sword. I'm putting that behind the next card.
Seelah explores for free. Its a monsters. She defeats it.
She plays a blessing to explore again and acquires the awesome sword.
It took them the same amount of cards to encounter the exact two same cards.
So long as the "next card" isn't the villain or henchman, her upgraded power means that the worst case scenario is she encounters the same two cards as Amiri, just in a different order. And best case scenario, if it is a boon you don't want, you just put it on the bottom and save your self an exploration to banish it. And even if the next card was a henchman, she could choose not to close if that awesome sword was awesome enough to risk that.
It is exploration free banishment!