Intensified isn't a set numerical bonus. Its a bonus # of random numbers. So it doesn't get doubled. I believe Piercing spell does get doubled though.
It doesn't always add 5 dice. It might only add 1, if you're 6th level, for example. It's not a set numerical bonus.
Plus, it adds dice *of damage* which are rolled, and thus not a fixed numerical value.
It doesn't always add 5 dice. It might only add 1, if you're 6th level, for example. It's not a set numerical bonus.
Plus, it adds dice *of damage* which are rolled, and thus not a fixed numerical value.
Actually, Intensify Spell doesn't add any dice at all.
An intensified spell increases the maximum number of damage dice by 5 levels.
Intensify Spell specifically increases the affected spell's damage cap by a set number of levels - the caveat is that it doesn't add damage on its own and the caster must have a high enough CL to make use of the higher damage cap. With a strict RAW reading, Spell Perfection would double the damage cap increase from Intensify Spell when applied to Shocking Grasp, which would allow the magus in question to deal up to 15d6 damage (provided his CL was high enough to gain extra damage dice).
There are surely RAI arguments in opposition of this interaction, but I'd be inclined to allow it at my table. Another 1d6-to-5d6 damage on a touch-range spell isn't exactly what I'd call game-breaking-ly powerful. Now, if said Magus was a dervish-dancing crit-fisher who dipped into Crossblooded Sorcerer and intended to Quicken this and cast it twice each round, I'd never allow it - you've got to draw the line somewhere, and that is just ridiculous.
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He's wrong. The definition of a set numerical value in PF is one that never changes weather or not your character level or caster level go up. A good example is the feat Weapon Focus. The +1 is ALWAYS a +1, no matter what. Any bonus chat changes at all, weather with leveling up, or by some other means is NOT a set value. Its a variable value.
Intensify Spell does not have a variable bonus - it always increases the spell's damage cap by 5 levels regardless of the PCs character level or caster level. The feat doesn't grant damage dice on its own, which is why it should count as a set numerical bonus.
Spell Focus doesn't use the term "bonus" anywhere in the description, and yet it is given as an example of a feat that works with Spell Specialization, so I wouldn't say that it has to be specifically called out as a bonus. The lack of a "+" sign is potential grounds for dispute given that all three examples called out in Spell Specialization include it, but I can't find any statements that require something to have a "+" in the description in order to be considered as a bonus. It'd be your GMs call, IMO.
PS: After applying my limited search-fu capabilities I found this thread, which asks a similar question with regards to Spell Perfection and Piercing Spell. According to the thread the topic has been requested for a FAQ and was, in fact, answered. Unfortunately that's where my search-fu failed as I was unable to locate the relevant FAQ. If anyone can locate it, that might help decide the matter.
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Bonus: Bonuses are numerical values that are added to checks and statistical scores. Most bonuses have a type, and as a general rule, bonuses of the same type are not cumulative (do not “stack”)—only the greater bonus granted applies.
Core Rulebook, under "getting started".
Intensify spell isn't added to a to a checks or statistical score. It is added to the spell cap.
Spell focus is added to the difficulty of a check, that of the spell you cast.
@LuniasM very often "answered in the FAQs" mean: it is alredy in the basic rules.
Intensify Spell does not have a variable bonus - it always increases the spell's damage cap by 5 levels regardless of the PCs character level or caster level. The feat doesn't grant damage dice on its own, which is why it should count as a set numerical bonus.
Spell Focus doesn't use the term "bonus" anywhere in the description, and yet it is given as an example of a feat that works with Spell Specialization, so I wouldn't say that it has to be specifically called out as a bonus. The lack of a "+" sign is potential grounds for dispute given that all three examples called out in Spell Specialization include it, but I can't find any statements that require something to have a "+" in the description in order to be considered as a bonus. It'd be your GMs call, IMO.
PS: After applying my limited search-fu capabilities I found this thread, which asks a similar question with regards to Spell Perfection and Piercing Spell. According to the thread the topic has been requested for a FAQ and was, in fact, answered. Unfortunately that's where my search-fu failed as I was unable to locate the relevant FAQ. If anyone can locate it, that might help decide the matter.
Intensified spell does NOT always add 5. If you have the feat at character level 6, it only adds 1. If level 7, it adds 2, etc...thus makes it VARIABLE. IT HAS THE POTENTIAL TO CHANGE. Thus spell perfection does not double its value.
By that logic, Power Attack ALWAYS raises damage by 12, you jest don't always qualify for the full effect. That's simply not true. Just because Intensified Spell is worded from loaded instead of scaling like power attack, doesn't change that fact that it still scales with level. Its just worded backwards. The scaling is refrensed after the maximum instead of before it.
By that logic, Power Attack ALWAYS raises damage by 12, you jest don't always qualify for the full effect.
No.
There is no maximum for power attack (check the rules on levels above 20; BAB continues to scale as normal, and hence so does the effect of power attack).
There is, however, an explicit maximum on the number of dice, a maximum that is directly affected by the feat.
Just because Intensified Spell is worded from loaded instead of scaling like power attack, doesn't change that fact that it still scales with level.
Actually, it does. Wording is important in this game.
The scaling is refrensed after the maximum instead of before it.
Got any actual rule text to support this interpretation? I suggest instead that the rules mean what they say.
"You must actually have sufficient caster levels to surpass the maximum in order to benefit from this feat"
How's that? You can take this one of two ways: 1) anything beyond the spells maximum increases in a scaling manner (this is the common interpretation) or 2) you can't gain the benefit of this feat until such time as your caster level is above 5 beyond the spells maximum.
If you assume 2 is correct, then yes, it would be a static bonus. However, given that almost everyone interprets the spell to allow the feat to take effect as soon as the caster level goes beyond the spells max, its a scaling effect.
"You must actually have sufficient caster levels to surpass the maximum in order to benefit from this feat"
How's that? You can take this one of two ways: 1) anything beyond the spells maximum increases in a scaling manner (this is the common interpretation) or 2) you can't gain the benefit of this feat until such time as your caster level is above 5 beyond the spells maximum.
Actually, no. There's a third interpretation, which is actually the correct one, which is the maximum has been raised, but raising the maximum gives you no benefit unless you had been up against the old maximum.
its a scaling effect.
Got any actual rules text to support that interpretation?
Well, it still doesn't qualify for spell perfection because its not a bonus of any kind, therefore cannot be doubled.
It doesn't call the additional damage dice "bonus" at all. It just says "An intensified spell increases the maximum number of damage dice by 5 levels." There is no bonus to double.
Bonus: Bonuses are numerical values that are added to checks and statistical scores. Most bonuses have a type, and as a general rule, bonuses of the same type are not cumulative (do not “stack”)—only the greater bonus granted applies.Core Rulebook, under "getting started".
Intensify spell isn't added to a to a checks or statistical score. It is added to the spell cap.
Spell focus is added to the difficulty of a check, that of the spell you cast.@LuniasM very often "answered in the FAQs" mean: it is alredy in the basic rules.
That's probably the clincher then. I'd probably still houserule it at my table, but that might depend on how my players opted to (ab)use it. Thanks for the clarification!
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Well, it still doesn't qualify for spell perfection because its not a bonus of any kind, therefore cannot be doubled.
It doesn't call the additional damage dice "bonus" at all. It just says "An intensified spell increases the maximum number of damage dice by 5 levels." There is no bonus to double.
Your absolutely right here :)
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Bonus: Bonuses are numerical values that are added to checks and statistical scores. Most bonuses have a type, and as a general rule, bonuses of the same type are not cumulative (do not “stack”)—only the greater bonus granted applies.Core Rulebook, under "getting started".
Intensify spell isn't added to a to a checks or statistical score. It is added to the spell cap.
Spell focus is added to the difficulty of a check, that of the spell you cast.@LuniasM very often "answered in the FAQs" mean: it is alredy in the basic rules.
The trait Magical Knack refers to the caster level increase as a Trait Bonus. So either "statistical scores" is more broadly defined or the definition of Bonus from the core rule book is invalidated by later material.
Either way it's not as definitive as put forth.