Spells / feats that need to be re-worded (Knight's Calling)

[Wiggz]

I've noticed a number of feats and spells in the past that seem to fall victim to certain phrasing that belies the RAI in favor of RAW. Case in point is Knight's Calling - the language it uses is:

You compel an enemy to come and fight you. On its turn, the target moves its speed toward you, avoiding any other dangers along its path (including any movement that would provoke attacks of opportunity). The target may do nothing but move on its turn. If the target ends its move adjacent to you, you can make an attack of opportunity against the target.

It would seem the way this spell was intended, if a Paladin (or whomever) casting it wielded a weapon with reach like a Bardiche, he'd be able to make an attack against his foe - but RAW he can't. Properly, I would think it should read 'if the target ends its move in a square you threaten', no?

Stand Still (the feat) is another example of this language in my opinion, but perhaps not - which in turn leaves open the ambiguity of interpretation... when did they really mean what they wrote and when didn't they?

Has Knight's Calling been errata'ed to anyone's knowledge?

[Sgt Arpin]

Hmm, that I think goes back to when AoOs are made. The AoO would happen before the triggering even happened. I guess the question would be, is the spell causing him to provoke an AoO or is his movement that the spell causes provoking an AoO? I don't really know if there's a clear answer to be gotten.

[Are]

If you wield a reach weapon, and the target of knight's calling ends its move adjacent to you, then you'd get an AoO regardless of the spell's wording, for the simple reason that the target must have moved out of one of your threatened squares to do so.

So, while you won't technically get the AoO granted by the spell, you will get an AoO as a result of the spell.

[Wiggz]

Are wrote:

If you wield a reach weapon, and the target of knight's calling ends its move adjacent to you, then you'd get an AoO regardless of the spell's wording, for the simple reason that the target must have moved out of one of your threatened squares to do so.

So, while you won't technically get the AoO granted by the spell, you will get an AoO as a result of the spell.

I guess that's true - the wording of the spell specifically says that the creature avoids any movement that might provoke an AoO (presumably by others), but it also says he moves towards you. It would seem on the surface that those two statements contradict themselves if you are a reach wielder. The spell does not specifically say that his movement doesn't provoke, simply that he avoids movement that does.

Would it be safe to assume that if the ONLY path he can take to reach you would provoke AoO's, then he would do so, despite the wording of the spell? Or would the spell fail because, according to the wording of the spell, he can't move?

As I said, its pretty confusing...

[Are]

Hm, good point. I didn't notice the part about AoO-avoidance when I read it.

However, I'd say the fact that it specifies that the target moves towards you, but avoids "other dangers", that it won't be avoiding your potential reach-based AoOs.

In terms of how the spell works if the target can't move towards you without encountering some type of danger (whether environment-based or other-creatures-based), then it probably won't do anything except prevent the target from performing actions other than moving. Which is still something.

[Wiggz]

Are wrote:

Hm, good point. I didn't notice the part about AoO-avoidance when I read it.

However, I'd say the fact that it specifies that the target moves towards you, but avoids "other dangers", that it won't be avoiding your potential reach-based AoOs.

In terms of how the spell works if the target can't move towards you without encountering some type of danger (whether environment-based or other-creatures-based), then it probably won't do anything except prevent the target from performing actions other than moving. Which is still something.

Unfortunately, the spell would only prevent the target from doing anything during your turn which, chances are, it wouldn't have been able to anyway.

I hope someone can confirm exactly how this spell works/doesn't work.

[dirgeoverdrive]

I read the "avoiding any other dangers along its path (including any movement that would provoke attacks of opportunity)" as indicating that the target will stop moving rather than provoke an AoO. For a character with reach, that means the target is stopping just inside their threatened area.

So, I don't see the Bardiche-wielder getting an AoO. If the designers had wanted the feat to read "...ends its move within your melee reach..." they would have. It's hard to imagine this is some unforeseen corner-case.

Perhaps the Bardiche-wielder could instead be holding their Bardiche in one hand during the target's turn, reducing the area the Bardiche-holder threatens (allowing the target to end their move adjacent), and then using armor spikes for the AoO granted by Knight's Calling. Then again, they may not want the target inside their reach.

[Are]

Wiggz wrote:

Unfortunately, the spell would only prevent the target from doing anything during your turn which, chances are, it wouldn't have been able to anyway.

The spell affects the target's turn, not the caster's turn:

"On its turn" and "The target may do nothing but move on its turn."

[Wiggz]

Are wrote:

Wiggz wrote:

Unfortunately, the spell would only prevent the target from doing anything during your turn which, chances are, it wouldn't have been able to anyway.

The spell affects the target's turn, not the caster's turn:

"On its turn" and "The target may do nothing but move on its turn."

D'oh. I even read that earlier but had some encephelo flatulation. Sorry.

[eyelessgame]

So um about Knight's Calling.

It seemed to be a tad overpowered for a first-level spell, only because it combines three different effects:

- Battlefield control (coercing an opponent's move)
- Loss of action (the target cannot attack; that is the *entirety* of spells like Command)
- Extra attack from the caster (if the target reaches the paladin, she gets to make an attack of opportunity)

But that's not my main issue.

Here's the description.

Quote:

On its turn, the target moves its speed toward you, avoiding any other dangers along its path (including any movement that would provoke attacks of opportunity). The target may do nothing but move on its turn. If the target ends its move adjacent to you, you can make an attack of opportunity against the target.

I have so many questions.

- What counts as "danger"? Does a small chasm that requires a Jump check to cross count? How about crossing an area affected by Entangle or Grease? Or to scale a wall for which a Climb check is required? How about an area of darkness through which the target cannot see?

- Does the target take the Withdraw action if adjacent to an opponent? Strictly speaking this would violate "does nothing but move" since Withdraw is a full-round action, not a move action.

- Presumably the target cannot take move-equivalent actions, like draw a weapon or shield, while moving, since it says "does nothing but move."

- If the caster is armed with a reach weapon (say a longspear), what happens? By the wording of the spell, the target will stop once in threat range of the longspear, since to move the remaining 5' to be adjacent to the caster requires "movement that would provoke an attack of opportunity." But since the target stops without becoming adjacent to the caster, the caster cannot take the AoO awarded by the spell either.

Has anyone suggested a rewording of this spell that resolves some of this ambiguity? It is one of my players' paladin's favorite spells, and I'd really like something consistent.

[eyelessgame]

I started writing disambiguation of the spell - because I just know it will come up - and I came up with rather a lot of disambiguation. This is how I'll rule it unless there's a FAQ or 'official' ruling to the contrary.

- The target of the spell's intent becomes to move safely toward the paladin so that it may attack her in the next round, and moves only its speed and no more, using any of its normal movement modes. It does not run, charge, overrun, or bull rush.

- The target will avoid perceived dangers from anything other than a melee attack by the caster, including but not limited to anything that could cause damage - so the target will not move into any square that would require a skill roll, saving throw, attack roll, or any other possibly negative outcome. The spell does not, for example, compel the target to walk into the area of effect of a grease, entangle, antimagic field, or other hazard that the target can perceive.

- The target will make any automatically successful action that has only the effect of permitting the compelled movement safely. That is, the target will take the Withdraw action, if needed, in order to avoid attacks of opportunity; similarly, will make Climb, Acrobatics, Fly, or Ride checks to avoid a perceived obstacle, but only if their skill is sufficient to succeed with no chance of failure.

- The target is not compelled to take other actions to initiate movement (for example, if the spell is cast upon a target with the grappled condition, the target is not compelled to attempt to free itself form the grapple and then attempt to move.)

- The target will not expend any resource or use any power with limited charges or effect per day (for example, to activate barbarian rage in order to guarantee a Climb check success) in order to perform the movement safely.

- The target will not move through areas where it perceives an opponent may be readied to use any ranged attack, spell, or spell-like ability, damaging or not, such as crossing open ground between hidden areas, if the target is aware of an opponent covering the area. The target may make a Perception roll to perceive a danger, if the GM has not already adjudicated whether the target perceives a danger that it has not reacted to.

- The target will move into a square that might contain dangers they do not perceive, such as moving next to an invisible opponent, or through an area of darkness that conceals terrain with which they are familiar but which might conceal a danger they are unaware of.

- The target will strive to end its turn adjacent to the caster, regardless of the threat range of any weapon it may have in hand.

- The target will, if able and applicable, move through the caster's weapon threat range in order to reach a spot adjacent to the caster. If it does so, the caster may make her attack of opportunity as that movement occurs, rather than after the movement has ended adjacent to the caster. That is, the target will not avoid movement that triggers an attack of opportunity from the caster.

- The spell does not prevent the target's mount, rider, familiar, or any other creature that moves with the target from making an attack on the caster. An intelligent or independent mount of the spell's target might continue the move further and attempt to bull rush or trample the caster.

I stress this is my personal adjudication and not the result of anything official, so I'd be happy to learn that the suggestion is to rule it differently.

[Diego Rossi]

"On its turn, the target moves its speed toward you, avoiding any other dangers along its path (including any movement that would provoke attacks of opportunity). The target may do nothing but move on its turn."

Moving isn't using a move action, so he can Withdraw to avoid AoO in his starting square as it is a form of movement.

The target moves "its speed", so he is forced to move at his normal speed, he isn't forced to take two move actions.

As written, he can't do anything that isn't "movement", so, no drawing weapons, using skills that aren't movement related, activating abilities, etc.