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I've started to create some fairly some generic encounters that I can insert into a campaign where appropriate. I've been using the CRB, GM and 3 bestiary books, but a few question have come up - especially around the area of terrain which doesn't always seem consistent across all books.
I've noted the text in the encounter creation section of the CRB that mentions that the CR for the encounter should be increased by 1 for the purposes of PC XP, if the terrain favors the monsters. I've been basing the encounters type of terrain on the 11 types that are present in the list of the Ranger's favored terrain, since there's 2 rangers in my party of PC's. Meanwhile the 3 bestiaries give a more granular break-down of those types of terrain. While the adventure gen table in the GM are based on much more general terrain types.
The question I have is: are monsters with a terrain type of "any terrain" ever considered to be in their favored terrain?
If they aren't; are monsters with a more granular temperature description for their any terrain environ considered in their favored terrain where appropriate; i.e. if I build a encounter set in a Cold setting/location, are monsters with the "Any Terrain - Cold" environment considered to be in favorable terrain?
Then there's a question around the adventure gen tables in the GM book. Those adventures types are broken down as Dungeons, Planar, Urban, Water and Wilderness. My initial thought was that planar would correspond to the Ranger's "planes" terrain, urban to "urban", water to "water", and Wilderness to any of the others with the exception of maybe cold. The Dungeons adventure section seems an exception as the table description clearly identify them as associated with terrain types other than "underground". The problem with most of those adventure sections random gen tables is that the monsters in them seem to be of different terrain types.
So that brings up the question: for the sake of easy encounter design, should I just treat any monster rolled on those tables as being in their favored terrain, or should I take the trouble to reference their terrain listing in the bestiary?
I typically wouldn't bother with this type of detail when creating an adventure, but the 2 rangers in the party pay attention to and expect this type of detail. And I'm willing to accommodate them to some extent as they're good role players; especially how the lay of the land effects the RP of their PC's.
I'm sure more questions will arise as I get further into this, but this is a start. If any GM's here who've built some encounters could provides some answers to my questions, it'd be greatly appreciated.
I think the CRB means if the terrain makes it harder for the PCs to win the fight. Just because a Mite is found underground it doesn't mean the CR should be higher than 1/4. However if that mite is riding a giant spider which ignores difficult terrain thanks to it's Climb speed and the terrain is cavernous, uneven and therefore considered difficult terrain, it will be harder for the PCs to move around there while easier for the spider-mounted mite. Does this make it easier?
In most cases, encountered creatures will react to terrain in the same way as non-ranger characters. Orcs, goblins, etc don't have "favored terrains". They treat terrain just as a non-ranger PC would treat terrain. The only time you really need to worry about a creature's reaction to a terrain is if it is specifically mentioned within the creature description.
With further thought, unless the creatures the characters are running into are specifically in the middle of migrating or have been recently displaced, they can and should be considered to be in a terrain where they, themselves, are relatively comfortable. In that sense, a monster is never really considered to be in 'unfavorable' terrain. After all, the characters are generally going to the creatures, not the other way around.
Hope that helps at least a little?
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With further thought, unless the creatures the characters are running into are specifically in the middle of migrating or have been recently displaced, they can and should be considered to be in a terrain where they, themselves, are relatively comfortable. In that sense, a monster is never really considered to be in 'unfavorable' terrain. After all, the characters are generally going to the creatures, not the other way around.
Well this was my thought around it, with my leaning to those with an "any terrain" description as not ever being in favored terrain. Mark brings up an important point though, does that terrain actually give a beneficial/competitive edge in any encounter?
I guess that raises a further question: is there any implied rule that a monster in it's home environ/terrain gets any type of bonuses, similar to the ranger's favored terrain?
There's obviously some givens to that such any enounter set in water terrain where the PCs will be up against monsters with a swim speed. Or PC's climbing a cliff in mountainous terrain where they're up against monsters with a climb or fly speed. If it's implied that the GM should be automatically applying certain bonuses to monsters in their favored/home terrain, then I'm cool with that. I just haven't come across any text or rule stating that.
To restate Mark's point, the CRB is not talking about the terrain favoring the monsters in the sense of the ranger ability, they mean strictly having an advantage over the players in ways not represented in the stat blocks.
Another example coming around a blind corner of a cave to run into four kobolds is a CR 1 encounter. Finding yourself in an ambush at the bottom of a rocky valley with 4 kobolds in ambush 100ft up a 45 degree difficult terrain slope (DC 7 acrobatics check or slide back down the slope 10 feet) is more than a CR 1 encounter.
The terrain listing in the monster stat block is really just for flavor, to help with building an immersive world, or if you need an appropriate encounter on the fly.
Well this was my thought around it, with my leaning to those with an "any terrain" description as not ever being in favored terrain. Mark brings up an important point though, does that terrain actually give a beneficial/competitive edge in any encounter?
No explicately, unless the monster has some ability that does so.
I guess that raises a further question: is there any implied rule that a monster in it's home environ/terrain gets any type of bonuses, similar to the ranger's favored terrain?
No.
There's obviously some givens to that such any enounter set in water terrain where the PCs will be up against monsters with a swim speed. Or PC's climbing a cliff in mountainous terrain where they're up against monsters with a climb or fly speed. If it's implied that the GM should be automatically applying certain bonuses to monsters in their favored/home terrain, then I'm cool with that. I just haven't come across any text or rule stating that.
No there isnt any such rule. What the Core book is talking about when they say if the terrain favors the monsster is exactly what you are thinking. If you are in a flooded dungeon and the monster has a swim speed and the pcs do not, obviously the encounter will be more difficult then if they were on land. That increases the CR. If then encounter takes place on serries of narrow platforms the players have to jump to and from, and the monsters can fly (or otherwise effortlessly get from one platform to the next) the CR goes up. This is the only kind of situation where the CR is affected by the terrain.
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The terrain listing in the monster stat block is really just for flavor, to help with building an immersive world, or if you need an appropriate encounter on the fly.
Well, despite the fact that I'm prebuilding them, my encounters are more or less intended to be inserted into an adventure on the fly.
Food for thought, but one thing this discussion has got me thinking about, is whether I might houserule that monsters have a bonus to perception and stealth when in their home terrain. I should probably mention that I have a fairly ecology-aware party, with most of the base monster ID'ing knowledge skills of nature, arcana and dungeoneering being held by at least 1 PC. The one missing is knowledge-planes, but the 6th player is talking about rolling up an Inquisitor. As well, I'm allowing the 3PP Noble Wild book with this campaign and one of my players is rolling with a Panther PC.
So with that in mind, would allowing a bonus such as +1 or +2 to perception and stealth to monsters tilt the playing field too much in their favor?
The base bonus for favorable circumstances to a skill check in +2 from the CRB, makes sense for the favorable home turf advantage to applicable skills. Of course this follows the first rule of DMing, if you and the players enjoy it, it is the right call.
My only comment would be to make sure the players have the same option to benefit from this, give them the same bonuses for free in addition to any class bonuses if they are on their own familiar ground, otherwise you are just giving the monsters a bonus on a whim.
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My only comment would be to make sure the players have the same option to benefit from this, give them the same bonuses for free in addition to any class bonuses if they are on their own familiar ground, otherwise you are just giving the monsters a bonus on a whim.
For sure, I'd go with that - makes perfect sense.
Another question that's come up for me is how the gp values in the Treasure Values per Encounter table in the CRB are handled. Does evey PC in the party receive the amount ot treasure listed in the appropriate column, or is that amount divided up evenly amongst the party.
BTW Many thanks to everyone who replied. :)
