How do you increase the save DC of charm spells?(charm-person/charm monster)
In fact what is the save DC of charm spells?
Various ways:
The Fey Sorcerer bloodline adds +2 to compulsions (suggestion/dominate)
The Infernal Bloodline adds +2 to Charm spells
The Arcanist ability Potent Magic can add +2 to any spell
The Arcane Bloodline can add +2DC to one school of magic
The Heighten Metamagic feat cab increase the DC by increasing the spell level although Persistent is better as it forces two saves
The Misfortune Revelation for Oracles can force a target to reroll a save
The Ill Omen spell forces a target to roll twice and take the lower result, often several times
Increasing your casting stat can increase the save DC
Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus increase the save
Spell Perfection will double the Spell Focus bonuses to DC's for one spell
There is a perfume which can increase the DC but I forget the name
The base DC for spells is generally 10+level of the spell+casting stat bonus.
The base DC for monster abilities is generally 10+relevant stat modifier+half HD
do you mean level as in Caster level so i add 10 plus Caster level plus my Charisma
xavier c wrote: do you mean level as in Caster level so i add 10 plus Caster level plus my Charisma Nope. It's level as in spell level. If you had a Charisma bonus of +4 and were casting charm monster (a 4th level spell), the DC would be 10(base)+4(level of the spell)+4(Stat modifier)= DC 18
xavier c wrote: do you mean level as in Caster level so i add 10 plus Caster level plus my Charisma He said "level of the spell," which means "level of the spell." If he'd meant "caster level" he'd have had to say it that way instead. Charm person is a 1st level spell, so the DC = 10 + 1 (level of the spell) + your Charisma modifier (NOT "your charisma"). So if your Charisma is 15 (modifier +2), your charm person has a DC of 13.
EDIT: Ninjad by Daethor.
It's unfortunate that the word "level" is used for so many different things; that's one thing that PF should have cleared up, but didn't. To avoid confusion, it's always best to say "spell level" or "caster level" or "character level" or whatever -- never dropping the adjective.
The Naderi Religion trait Empty Heart, Full Heart grants you a +1 bonus to your save vs. Charm spells, and targets of your own Charm spells receive a -1 save penalty--that's essentially equivalent to +1 DC.
Doh, missed a one. The Arcane Bloodline arcana adds another +1 to the DC of any spell which has a metamagic feat attached to it, like, say, a Persistent Spell Perfected Mass Suggestion that all of your enemies should go forth and procreate. That's probably looking like a DC of:
10 +6 (level of the spell) +14 (Charisma modifier at high level) +4 (doubled spell focus) +2 (school power, level 15 arcana bloodline power) +1 (arcane bloodline arcana) for DC37.
What are some of the best ways (spells or class powers) to decrease an enemy will Defense?
and how do you increase the level of the spell
andreww wrote: +4 (doubled spell focus) Greater Spell Focus hasn't been +4 since 3.0. Or is there actually some way of doubling it?
xavier c wrote: What are some of the best ways (spells or class powers) to decrease an enemy will Defense? Mind fog works nicely, or a bestow curse to lower Wis score.
Touch of idiocy is in some ways better, because there's no save, but you have to touch the victim, which sucks.
xavier c wrote: and how do you increase the level of the spell By using the Heighten Spell feat
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Kirth Gersen wrote: andreww wrote: +4 (doubled spell focus) Greater Spell Focus hasn't been +4 since 3.0. Or is there actually some way of doubling it? Spell Perfection doubles flat bonuses, and Spell Focus is called out as a specific example.
what is the best class for an Enchanter? ( does not have to be a wizard)
I want something that can charm almost anything
xavier c wrote: what is the best class for an Enchanter? ( does not have to be a wizard)
I want something that can charm almost anything
Infernal sorcerer. Most everything else doesn't depend on the class, but on feats, traits, race, equipment, etc.
So what is the best feats, traits, race, equipment,for an Enchanter?
xavier c wrote: So what is the best feats, traits, race, equipment,for an Enchanter? Before I answer that, let me ask: how do you want to play the character?
I want to play someone that can charm almost anything ( i am new to this Enchanter thing)
Manipulator/seducer
If you want to be able to charm anything then you probably want to go down the Arcanist route. You can access a bloodline arcana and wizard school power and use Potent Spells for a DC increase.
I recommend taking the Serpentine Arcana to be able to charm magical beasts and animals. Invest in Threndonic Spell metamagic feat to be able to mind control undead and go to town.
Kirth Gersen wrote: andreww wrote: +4 (doubled spell focus) Greater Spell Focus hasn't been +4 since 3.0. Or is there actually some way of doubling it? Spell Perfection. Best spellcaster feat in the game barring maybe Leadership.
andreww wrote: Spell Perfection. Best spellcaster feat in the game barring maybe Leadership. Gotcha. I knew there was a reason I didn't allow it ;)
Oh hell yes, it is all kind of ridiculous craziness. And yet Crane Wing is the thing that needs a nerf...
xavier c wrote: What are some of the best ways (spells or class powers) to decrease an enemy will Defense?
and how do you increase the level of the spell
anything (spell, bard, etc) that can give the shaken condition on an enemy will give -2 on saves.
any sonic spell using the concussive spell metamagic will give -2 on saves for spell level rounds.
giving a character the sickening condition will also reduce saves by 2
what is the best traits race and equipment for charm spells
What are the character creation rules for your campaign? It sounds like you want us to build your character for you.
Evil Eye hex can give -2 to saves
/cevah
Race doesn't really matter, anything which gives you a bonus to your spell casting stat. The alternative would be a Kitsune sorcerer which has an alternate favoured class bonus which increases your enchantment spell DC's. However, going down that route on a sorcerer cuts you off from the human extra spells known favoured class bonus and the Paragon Surge spell which gives you spontaneous access to your entire list..
For traits you will want Magical Lineage to reduce the metamagic cost of one spell by 1. There is also a regional trait that does the same thing but only for a spell of level 3 or lower. I recommend Suggestion as it is extremely flexible and can be used in combat. If you are Int based consider Student of Philosophy to use Int instead of charisma for most uses of bluff and diplomacy.
On equipment it is standard stuff. Casting stat booster headband, Cloak of Resistance, Handy Haversack, Circlet of Persuasion, metamagic rods (Persistent in particular).
thank you for all the recommendations
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