| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
As far as I recall, divine rank is above and beyond anything mythic tiers can do.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Divinity is so much more powerful than mythic that it's not even in the same ballpark. So no, that wouldn't be balanced.
Here's a list of what a character gets at divine rank 1, just to save others having to look it up:
- Speed increases to 60 ft.
- +1 divine bonus to AC and +1 natural armor bonus to AC
- +1 divine bonus to attacks and doesn't fail on a natural 1.
- bypass damage reduction as your alignment (ie; if you're LG, you bypass DR/lawful and DR/good).
- +1 divine bonus to all saves and doesn't fail on a natural 1.
- +1 divine bonus to all skill checks, ability checks, and caster level checks.
- immunity to polymorphing, petrification, and other form-altering, except your own such effects.
- immunity to ability damage, ability drain, and energy drain.
- immunity to mind-affecting effects (specifically noted: charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).
- immunity to acid, cold, and electricity.
- immunity to disease, poison, stunning, magical sleep, paralysis, death effects, and disintegration.
- DR 15/epic.
- fire resistance 6.
- SR 33.
- gains three salient divine abilities (here are four example abilities you can choose at rank 1: (1) assume any size you wish as a free action; (2) choose one metamagic feat that you can apply as a free action to any spell without increasing level; (3) gain fast healing 21); (4) gains ability to use true resurrection at will, with no material component, regardless of the time passed or condition of the body).
- cannot die from natural causes, doesn't age, doesn't need to eat, sleep, or breathe, not subject to death from massive damage.
- if you have darkvision or low-light vision, they now extend to 1 mile.
- 10 ft aura, where beings within except those you choose are either fascinated, shaken (with the bonus of even a glance from you causing those shaken to be frightened), or your chosen gaining +4 to attacks, saves, and checks while others take a -4 penalty to the same.
- can understand, speak, and read any language, plus can speak directly to any individual within 1 mile.
- can use greater teleport as an SLA at will, except only for yourself and up to 100 pounds of objects.
- can treat any creature of your familiar's type within 1 mile as your familiar, and can switch between creatures instantaneously (only one creature can count as the familiar at a time).
- gains a 100 ft. radius area/realm where you can set the temperature as you wish, plus add whatever sounds and scents you like.
- all domain powers from the domains you can grant, if cleric.
- all domain spells you can grant as spell-like abilities, plus you can cast all such spells spontaneously.
- as standard action, can perceive everything within 1 mile of any of your worshippers, holy sites, or places/objects sacred to you, plus anywhere your name is spoken for 1 hour afterwards, and can speak to such people or people near such places/objects.
- a bunch of abilities related to your portfolio.
***
Most of these abilities become better with more divine ranks (in particular, all the "+1 divine bonus" abilities increase per rank).
Even if you remove the abilities that are related to having worshippers, having a portfolio, and granting spells, this is nowhere near balanced with mythic.
Not really. Mythic is something rather unqiue in the history of D&D/PF.
I am wondering what people's general views are on Pathfinder's Mythic vs 3.5e SRD (d20srd.org)'s Divine Rank. Are they comparable? Would it be balanced to have a party of both in level play above 20, assuming everyone in the party used the same rules for class progression, etc above level 20 and it was just divine rank and mythic that differed between players.They're not anywhere in the same ballpark.
Mythic heroes are still in essence mortal. They for the most part aren't even going to be above level 20. Wrath of the Worldwound for instance starts you mythic at levels 5-6. Mythic is actually better played BETWEEN levels 1-20 than post 20.
There is no such defined mechanic as divine rank in Pathfinder. If you're bringing that in, then you're playing a 3.X/Pathfinder hybrid and that's a whole nother can of worms.
Gods in Pathfinder don't have 3.X's "divine rank", because they don't have stats.
Gods basically start from CR 31. They probably would have similar stat blocks to demigods, I think.
Again, Gods don't have stats in Pathfinder. At ALL. They're walking bundles of GM Fiat. If you're looking to change that, and do some 3.5 epic/divine/mythic mashup, you should be posting this question in the 3.5/Homebrew forum.Gods basically start from CR 31. They probably would have similar stat blocks to demigods, I think.I am wondering what people's general views are on Pathfinder's Mythic vs 3.5e SRD (d20srd.org)'s Divine Rank. Are they comparable? Would it be balanced to have a party of both in level play above 20, assuming everyone in the party used the same rules for class progression, etc above level 20 and it was just divine rank and mythic that differed between players.They're not anywhere in the same ballpark.
Mythic heroes are still in essence mortal. They for the most part aren't even going to be above level 20. Wrath of the Worldwound for instance starts you mythic at levels 5-6. Mythic is actually better played BETWEEN levels 1-20 than post 20.
There is no such defined mechanic as divine rank in Pathfinder. If you're bringing that in, then you're playing a 3.X/Pathfinder hybrid and that's a whole nother can of worms.
Gods in Pathfinder don't have 3.X's "divine rank", because they don't have stats.
Okay, I know they don't have stats. I'm just saying they're all CR 31+. With stats or not, that's the CR they start at.
I am wondering what people's general views are on Pathfinder's Mythic vs 3.5e SRD (d20srd.org)'s Divine Rank. Are they comparable? Would it be balanced to have a party of both in level play above 20, assuming everyone in the party used the same rules for class progression, etc above level 20 and it was just divine rank and mythic that differed between players.
I see mythic tiers as playable divine ranks.
Divine ranks make your characters actual deities that have abilities that are sometimes hard to even play. (you foresee years in advance things related to your sphere)
Again, Gods don't have stats in Pathfinder. At ALL. They're walking bundles of GM Fiat. If you're looking to change that, and do some 3.5 epic/divine/mythic mashup, you should be posting this question in the 3.5/Homebrew forum.
This is totally a GD topic about comparing things across editions.
No... you still don't get it. You put any number on that no matter how high... it becomes a number.
Gods are beyond numbers.... period. That's what makes a god.
Not in 3.5 which is where half the mechanics we are comparing to come from.
|
Not in 3.5 which is where half the mechanics we are comparing to come from.No... you still don't get it. You put any number on that no matter how high... it becomes a number.
Gods are beyond numbers.... period. That's what makes a god.
Which is one of the differences between it and Pathfinder. And he was clearly talking about Pathfinder with the CR 31+ thing...so the corection seems warranted.
Not in 3.5 which is where half the mechanics we are comparing to come from.No... you still don't get it. You put any number on that no matter how high... it becomes a number.
Gods are beyond numbers.... period. That's what makes a god.
Yes, but we're talking in the Pathfinder forum, so the answers we're giving you are on a Pathfinder basis. Mythic is not a 3.5 mechanic.
You want to mash them together, you're on your own.
OMG they are being compared! Get over it. No one is suggesting house-rules.
Again, Gods don't have stats in Pathfinder. At ALL. They're walking bundles of GM Fiat. If you're looking to change that, and do some 3.5 epic/divine/mythic mashup, you should be posting this question in the 3.5/Homebrew forum.Gods basically start from CR 31. They probably would have similar stat blocks to demigods, I think.I am wondering what people's general views are on Pathfinder's Mythic vs 3.5e SRD (d20srd.org)'s Divine Rank. Are they comparable? Would it be balanced to have a party of both in level play above 20, assuming everyone in the party used the same rules for class progression, etc above level 20 and it was just divine rank and mythic that differed between players.They're not anywhere in the same ballpark.
Mythic heroes are still in essence mortal. They for the most part aren't even going to be above level 20. Wrath of the Worldwound for instance starts you mythic at levels 5-6. Mythic is actually better played BETWEEN levels 1-20 than post 20.
There is no such defined mechanic as divine rank in Pathfinder. If you're bringing that in, then you're playing a 3.X/Pathfinder hybrid and that's a whole nother can of worms.
Gods in Pathfinder don't have 3.X's "divine rank", because they don't have stats.
Okay, I know they don't have stats. I'm just saying they're all CR 31+. With stats or not, that's the CR they start at.
No... you still don't get it. You put any number on that no matter how high... it becomes a number.
Gods are beyond numbers.... period. That's what makes a god.
I'm saying Gods are not beyond numbers. Maybe a couple, but creatures at CR 30 are capable of fighting gods and even killing them. Just because they're not currently statted (or ever) doesn't mean they couldn't exist on paper. Anything can be statted out.
And CR 30 for beauties like Cthulhu.
And CR 30 for beauties like Cthulhu.
Apparently Cthulhu isn't a god.
And CR 30 for beauties like Cthulhu.Apparently Cthulhu isn't a god.
He's at demigod power levels and the highest level of that.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I think do to the nature of the Cthulhu mythology there cannot be "canon" comprehensible to mortal minds. Any and all such things are merely things we convince ourselves to believe about its existence.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The inclusion of Cthulhu in Bestiary 4 was honestly confusing to me. His CR alone means that most 20th level parties just flat out couldn't oppose him, which makes statting him out relatively pointless in the first place. I suppose a highly optimized Mythic party greater in size than 4 or 5 might manage something, but if I were GMing that fight, even if they "won", they'd really only succeed in putting him to sleep. You just don't kill Cthulhu.
The Tarrasque is CR 25. CRs cap at 5 higher than APL can go specifically so there can be truly epic boss fights. So...Cthulhu is one of those for the 20th level/10th Mythic Tier people.
And read his entry...that putting to sleep thing? That's officially how that works, listed under 'Immortality'. James Jacobs wrote the Cthulhu entry after all, and he's a huge Lovecraft fan. :)
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I think do to the nature of the Cthulhu mythology there cannot be "cannon" comprehensible to mortal minds. Any and all such things are merely things we convince ourselves to believe about its existence.
I have no trouble comprehending cannons, thank you very much!
:P
I think do to the nature of the Cthulhu mythology there cannot be "cannon" comprehensible to mortal minds. Any and all such things are merely things we convince ourselves to believe about its existence.I have no trouble comprehending cannons, thank you very much!
:P
Damn you English!
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Mythic is more comparable to Epic levels in 3.5, than Divine ranks. Some similarities, though.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
If one is being a Lovecraft purist, Cthulhu was never a god; he was a high priest of the Elder Gods. It gets dicier from there; Lovecraft was never consistent in his application, as he never intended to have a unified mythology. He re-used a lot of scene-setting concepts throughout his original works in the 20s and 30s. However, he was extraordinarily generous with his creations, and freely encouraged other authors interested in writing in his worlds to do so.There's Lovecraft whose works clearly say that the best one could hope from the Gods was never to be noticed by them, and then there's Derleth and the rest who added Elder Gods to the mix.
Technically, Lovecraft added Nodens to the mix. As one of the "Elder Gods", he was less inherently malign than some of Lovecraft's other gods / aliens....but he wasn't ever exactly described as being a friendly white-hat, either.
|
|
Mythic is more comparable to Epic levels in 3.5, than Divine ranks. Some similarities, though.It's not comparable at all. mythic ranks are not class levels, the way epic ones were. They're also not a system that does not activate until level 20, they are a parallel system that can be used as early as first level.
Stop being overly pedantic, dude. Mythic tiers may not be exactly the same thing, but Mythic Adventures can quite obviously be seen as Paizo's parallel to WotC's ELH.
Pathfinder isn't an edition of Dungeons and Dragons. It's not D+D, never has been, never will be. And I thank all of the gods for that.Again, Gods don't have stats in Pathfinder. At ALL. They're walking bundles of GM Fiat. If you're looking to change that, and do some 3.5 epic/divine/mythic mashup, you should be posting this question in the 3.5/Homebrew forum.This is totally a GD topic about comparing things across editions.
How do you explain its similarities to D&D 3.5? Cosmic coincidence?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
How do you explain its similarities to D&D 3.5? Cosmic coincidence?Pathfinder isn't an edition of Dungeons and Dragons. It's not D+D, never has been, never will be. And I thank all of the gods for that.Again, Gods don't have stats in Pathfinder. At ALL. They're walking bundles of GM Fiat. If you're looking to change that, and do some 3.5 epic/divine/mythic mashup, you should be posting this question in the 3.5/Homebrew forum.This is totally a GD topic about comparing things across editions.
Intervention from the Old Ones!
It's simmilarity to D+D ended when the APG was published.How do you explain its similarities to D&D 3.5? Cosmic coincidence?Pathfinder isn't an edition of Dungeons and Dragons. It's not D+D, never has been, never will be. And I thank all of the gods for that.Again, Gods don't have stats in Pathfinder. At ALL. They're walking bundles of GM Fiat. If you're looking to change that, and do some 3.5 epic/divine/mythic mashup, you should be posting this question in the 3.5/Homebrew forum.This is totally a GD topic about comparing things across editions.
What did the APG do to do that? The core rules are pretty much the same.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Stop being overly pedantic, dude. Mythic tiers may not be exactly the same thing, but Mythic Adventures can quite obviously be seen as Paizo's parallel to WotC's ELH.Mythic is more comparable to Epic levels in 3.5, than Divine ranks. Some similarities, though.It's not comparable at all. mythic ranks are not class levels, the way epic ones were. They're also not a system that does not activate until level 20, they are a parallel system that can be used as early as first level.How could it be parallel?. ELH doesn't start until after level 20 and consists of advancing class hit dice and classes beyond level 20.
Mythic Tiers does not advance hit dice, can be started at any level, and does not expand the 20 character level system but sandwiches in between.
There's not one shred of similarity to them.
Mythic like Epic, gives PCs new and powerful abilities, introduces powerful enemies and iconic enemies, like Demon Lords, changes the fluff of the game by giving them a legendary aspect or cosmic importance that is not necessarely present in other games, etc...
You can't add mythic to level 1 characters. They have to be level 2, at least! :D
(I'm a helper!)
I guess some people will say that 3e D&D has nothing to do with 3.5 D&D.
Creative Director
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Mythic tiers and divine ranks are two very different things. Divine Rank did not play a role at all in our design of the Mythic Rules, mostly because we have chosen NOT to quantify deities with rules in that way.
As such, the two (mythic tiers and divine ranks) are not really comparable at all in my opinion.
Reference mythic characters and divinity,
"Characters who achieve 10th tier are at the height of mythic power, and are in some respects akin to minor deities."
... so there's that, at least.
You can't add mythic to level 1 characters. They have to be level 2, at least! :DReally?
Oh! Am I wrong?
... oh! The byline I thought was there, the one about not having more ranks than half your level, is missing!
I am either thinking of something from the playtest, or somehow mixing up the line,
For a typical monster that's acquired mythic power, its rank is equal to half its original CR.
... for a rule. Sorry.
Welp! I was wrong! Carry on, everyone! :D
Liam, I think your post went wrong somewhere. It's just a massive quote of me! Which, while flattering, doesn't really say much...
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Liam, I think your post went wrong somewhere. It's just a massive quote of me! Which, while flattering, doesn't really say much...