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I'm not trying to drive a truck through the rules here, just asking a question.
When playing a sanctioned module, can those wishing to gain PFS credit use their own legal character or a pregen, and those not caring about credit using any character they want of appropriate level? Thus having a "mixed" table.
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In Campaign mode, abide by the GM's campaign rules. In Module mode, abide by PFS rules (which might, for that matter, allow some things that the campaign GM wouldn't allow, like Faction traits).
But campaign mode is only available for AP's right? One cannot play the modules using "home rules" and then apply them to a PFS legal character, right?
Venture-Captain, Germany—Hamburg
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If you're playing the module in a home game, and you really can't convince all the players to play for PFS credit, here's what you can do:
- make sure at least 3 of the players (4 would be better) want to play for credit. That way you have a legal table to report.
- make sure the other players play characters that aren't more powerful than the PFS characters.
- after the game, you can make one last offer for the non-PFS players to join the campaign.
- report the table as if only the PFS players played through the module.
Important: I strongly suggest that you do that only for home games. Open games at conventions or game stores should be either PFS or non-PFS, not mixed.
But in a home game, your most important job as a GM is to make everyone happy with the module. Just make it clear to your players that mixing PFS players and non-PFS players will not happen outside of home games (and even in home games maybe shouldn't happen very often).
Note: While this is a nice short-term solution to make everyone happy and still grant chronicles, the better long-term solution would be to have your non-PFS players join the campaign, even if it's only to play those modules with the PFS players.
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If you're playing the module in a home game, and you really can't convince all the players to play for PFS credit, here's what you can do:
- make sure at least 3 of the players (4 would be better) want to play for credit. That way you have a legal table to report.
- make sure the other players play characters that aren't more powerful than the PFS characters.
- after the game, you can make one last offer for the non-PFS players to join the campaign.
- report the table as if only the PFS players played through the module.Important: I strongly suggest that you do that only for home games. Open games at conventions or game stores should be either PFS or non-PFS, not mixed.
But in a home game, your most important job as a GM is to make everyone happy with the module. Just make it clear to your players that mixing PFS players and non-PFS players will not happen outside of home games (and even in home games maybe shouldn't happen very often).Note: While this is a nice short-term solution to make everyone happy and still grant chronicles, the better long-term solution would be to have your non-PFS players join the campaign, even if it's only to play those modules with the PFS players.
The whole table has to be PFS legal to report it as a PFS session outside of a "campaign mode" situation.
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If you're playing the module in a home game, and you really can't convince all the players to play for PFS credit, here's what you can do:
- make sure at least 3 of the players (4 would be better) want to play for credit. That way you have a legal table to report.
- make sure the other players play characters that aren't more powerful than the PFS characters.
- after the game, you can make one last offer for the non-PFS players to join the campaign.
- report the table as if only the PFS players played through the module.Important: I strongly suggest that you do that only for home games. Open games at conventions or game stores should be either PFS or non-PFS, not mixed.
But in a home game, your most important job as a GM is to make everyone happy with the module. Just make it clear to your players that mixing PFS players and non-PFS players will not happen outside of home games (and even in home games maybe shouldn't happen very often).Note: While this is a nice short-term solution to make everyone happy and still grant chronicles, the better long-term solution would be to have your non-PFS players join the campaign, even if it's only to play those modules with the PFS players.
Note: This is only a legal option if and only if the non-PFS partiicpating player is using a character that is legal by PFS standards. If it is not, then this is NOT a legal table and cannot be reported as such.
It doesnt matter if he is going to take the credit*, it matters what he is playing.
*I had a player at Gencon at my table of Siege of Diamond City who wasnt registered for PFS and didnt want to be. He just wanted to play a game with his buddies. Confused the heck out of me at the time. :P
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And Seth, by "legal by PFS standards," does that include "with 0 XP"?
Yup, It has to follow all PFS rules for the characters. If the Module does not cater to Level 1 characters then they need to play a Pregen assuming the Module is not higher then Level 8. If it is Higher then Level 8 then there is no option for a Non PFS character/player to play.
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If you're playing the module in a home game, and you really can't convince all the players to play for PFS credit, here's what you can do:
- make sure at least 3 of the players (4 would be better) want to play for credit. That way you have a legal table to report.
- make sure the other players play characters that aren't more powerful than the PFS characters.
- after the game, you can make one last offer for the non-PFS players to join the campaign.
- report the table as if only the PFS players played through the module.Important: I strongly suggest that you do that only for home games. Open games at conventions or game stores should be either PFS or non-PFS, not mixed.
But in a home game, your most important job as a GM is to make everyone happy with the module. Just make it clear to your players that mixing PFS players and non-PFS players will not happen outside of home games (and even in home games maybe shouldn't happen very often).Note: While this is a nice short-term solution to make everyone happy and still grant chronicles, the better long-term solution would be to have your non-PFS players join the campaign, even if it's only to play those modules with the PFS players.
The module is either PFS Sanctioned or it is not. this is binary. If you are playing it for PFS, then ALL participants must use either a pregen PFS Character, or an active PFS character. You CANNOT mix and match. I have looked through the rules for organized play to my best ability.
This is for a couple reasons:
1. Wealth by level is a little low for PFS, thus, creating a character at level 7, and having a played character at 7 for PFS will have differing gold levels in a noticible way.
2. Fame restrict purchase. If a character has leveled with a couple modules, and a dozen scenarios, he may not have the purchase limit of a newly created character not following fame.
3. Illegal materials, weapons, armors, items, and feats.
It is simply not equal.
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And Seth, by "legal by PFS standards," does that include "with 0 XP"?Yup, It has to follow all PFS rules for the characters. If the Module does not cater to Level 1 characters then they need to play a Pregen assuming the Module is not higher then Level 8. If it is Higher then Level 8 then there is no option for a Non PFS character/player to play.
This.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Well, for APs and long modules (the only places where "campaign mode" is legal) the group should be committed to running the entire campaign. If you only want to run "Brinewall Legacy" instead of the entire Jade Regent storyline, you should be playing in PFS-legal Module mode.
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How does campaign mode wind up being different than running it any way you want?
Except for Dragon's Demand all Modules need to be run in "Module Mode" PFS rules.
"Campaign mode" Can be run anyway you want, to include using different rule systems. Currently only APs and The Dragon's Demand can be run in "Campaign mode".
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Well, for APs and long modules (the only places where "campaign mode" is legal) the group should be committed to running the entire campaign. If you only want to run "Brinewall Legacy" instead of the entire Jade Regent storyline, you should be playing in PFS-legal Module mode.
I had understood it to be that you could run just Brinewall legacy in campaign mode and still get PFs credit, without needing to run the entire thing. And that 'PFS mode' was basically 'If the only thing you are going to run is the sanctioned portion'. That allows you to use the individual chapters in a much more free form fashion as far as home play goes, cause you would run adventures together, mix and match, and insert chapters where they make sense with your own game.
I could be wrong though. Gonna have to look that wording up. Hmmm.
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Well, for APs and long modules (the only places where "campaign mode" is legal) the group should be committed to running the entire campaign. If you only want to run "Brinewall Legacy" instead of the entire Jade Regent storyline, you should be playing in PFS-legal Module mode.
What if you play the Brinewall Legacy for credit in campaign mode, then after that chapter the group decide that the AP isn't for them and ditch the rest of the campaign to play something else?
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What if you play the Brinewall Legacy for credit in campaign mode, then after that chapter the group decide that the AP isn't for them and ditch the rest of the campaign to play something else?
"Should" is entirely in Chris's eyes. Note that he did not say "have to."
-Matt is loving Campaign Mode. All the incentive to create interest, with all the freedom he could ask for. If only it were available for the 32-page modules...
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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What if you play the Brinewall Legacy for credit in campaign mode, then after that chapter the group decide that the AP isn't for them and ditch the rest of the campaign to play something else?
"Should" is entirely in Chris's eyes. Note that he did not say "have to."
It's not a requirement, no. As Paz notes, if you decide that the AP isn't to your taste, a Venture-Captain doesn't show up at your door, demanding that you play through to the entire end. (That's probably for the best, really.)
But the Guide does say, on page 29:
Alternatively, if you are participating in a Pathfinder Adventure Path with an ongoing group undertaking the entire, six-book campaign, you may receive credit for playing the sanctioned portions of the adventure as if you had played a pregenerated character.
So, if your intent is to play through only one part of an AP, the Guide doesn't allow for you to play in Campaign mode.
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I have had a group do this.
I have played in the second chapter of Rise of the Runelords before, and recieved credit via campaign mode, game was droped during book three.
Some friends wanted to just do the Foxglove Manor though, so we decided to adventure it with our PFS characters. So we came up with a PFS mission for it on our own which put us at the Manor which is levels 4-6 with our PFS characters, I used a star to replay btw, and we had a grand old time going through the horribly haunted house with our PFS characters, we finished the big bad at the end of the mansion and continued on our merry way with the Foxglove Manor chronicle sheet with +3 exp, +4 PP.
Depending on how you fit in modules and sanctioned AP areas, they can be a LOT of fun.
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Venture-Captain, Germany—Hamburg
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I was not aware that was a legal option, Andreas. Cool.
As others pointed out, it basically is not. I am fully aware of that and I have to say again I don't want to encourage people to jump to such stuff.
What I posted is more of a "if everything else fails and there really really is no other way to have everyone have the fun they came to the table for" solution.Here are ways to do solve this kind of problem before you choose to "do stuff behind the scenes because nobody can prove there were more players than have been reported":
- If you're playing a level 1 module, have everyone build their character using PFS rules. Hand pre-registered PFS numbers to the players who don't want to play for credit. After the game, give them a chronicle sheet as well. If they later decide to join the campaign, they can use that number and either play the character they created in PFS or create a new character to assign the chronicle to, using level 1 rebuild rules.
- If you're playing a higher level module, have the non-PFS players choose an official pregenerated character. Give them a PFS number as in the example above.
If the non-PFS players don't want to play a pregen, consider playing a level 1 module. It's a better introduction to PFS, anyway.
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... But the Guide does say, on page 29:
Alternatively, if you are participating in a Pathfinder Adventure Path with an ongoing group undertaking the entire, six-book campaign, you may receive credit for playing the sanctioned portions of the adventure as if you had played a pregenerated character.So, if your intent is to play through only one part of an AP, the Guide doesn't allow for you to play in Campaign mode.
Pretty sure the intent was not to keep folks from getting Chronicles if they didn't want to play the whole AP. But it says what it says.
Also, Mike has posted asking that no one offer advice on how to circumvent PFS rules.
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Venture-Captain, Germany—Hamburg
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I guess my last post offers a pretty good way of handling such a situation without even having to circumvent PFS rules. Honestly, one will only have to do such a thing if players are stubborn in such a way that makes you ask why you want to play with them in the first place (no offense to anyone here ;) )
The way I see it:
- if you're creating 1st level characters for a module, the GM can simply say he wants people to create characters following PFS rules. Even if not playing PFS, it's the GM's right to use the same limitations. (If people don't like those limitations, they are free to leave the table.)
And once you have only PFS-legal characters at the table, it doesn't do any harm to actually enlist them as PFS characters (and therefore giving the players the ability to play them at any PFS table after they finish the module).
- if you're playing at higher than 1st level, non-PFS players would have to create a higher level character from scratch for the module, anyway. So they could just choose a pregen instead. It shortens the character creation process (which can take quite some time at high levels) and noone can say there aren't enough options. There are 14 pregens at the moment, and if a player doesn't like some backstory detail, he can make up another background story or name or even change the pregen's gender, those are all details without any game mechanics attached, so it's perfectly ok to change them to be more comfortable with roleplaying the character.
- if a player doesn't want to activate the preregistered PFS number that was given to him by the GM, that's ok. It's not the GM's responsibility to make sure the player activates his number and registers a character. After all, in most cases the GM doesn't know the new players (at conventions, for example) and therefore doesn't have the ability to check if the player activated the PFS number.
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Brian:
The Dragon's Demand is one of the games that allows running it in its entirety as a home game.
A PFS GM could do that, with no regular PFS players, yes?
Nefreet:
That module seems to have a high popularity, so it might be possible to get some actual PFS players to play in it, even in a small locality. In home game mode, you could, literally, adjust it so you can run it with only one player, or 20, if that's how you wanted to work it.
Or run it using Alternity, Fantasy Hero, GURPS Fantasy, FUDGE, or what-have-you game system (Basic Role-Play from Chaosium? Tunnels & Trolls? The Fantasy Trip? Sorry, got sidetracked onto Memory Lane for a moment, there. And other games spring to mind, too, up to and including Runequest, I.C.E.'s RPG system, or even original, white box, D&D...)
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I already ran it. We started in October and ended in January.
Last year I began a "PFS campaign" for a home group. I hand picked scenarios to run them through all the way up until The Ruby Phoenix Tournament, but by the time they got to level 3 the group fell apart. Originally the plan was to go through The Dragon's Demand with their PFS characters and receive all 4 Chronicles.
Despite my best efforts, none of them were in love with PFS, but the two people I kept gaming with still wanted to "hunt dragons". I'd already bought the module, so we found two more people and everyone made new characters. We had a blast, but when it came time to report the only number I recorded was myself as the GM.
I did research then, and have been looking it up since yesterday, and I believe, as kinevon said, that The Dragon's Demand is different than other APs. The system let me report it, and until now I've never seen a red flag.
I suppose I could print up new character #s, just for reporting reasons, but I don't see a point in that, really.
The character I gave the GM credit to is now level 9, and will be 10 next week. If he's illegal, that's really going to...