How to get a flying mount in PFS

[Jiggy]

Feels like a wild goose chase trying to figure out which ways I can and cannot get an animal companion (not an eidolon or familiar) that flies. Surely someone's already done the legwork here though, right? What are the PFS-legal options for a flying mount?

Thanks!

[The Roc]

THE ROC SAYS THAT MAYBE YOU SHOULD KNOW YOUR ROLE AND TAKE A LOOK AT A 7TH LEVEL SMALL-SIZED DRUID WITH AN ANIMAL COMPANION...

...ONE THAT IS THE MOST ELECTRIFYING ANIMAL COMPANION IN GOLARION SPORTS ENTERTAINMENT TODAY...

[The Fourth Horseman]

Do you smell it?

[Jiggy]

I... what?

[LazarX]

Get to 8th level as a summoner. You can then have a large quadraped eidolon with wings and a mount evolution. I've done it.

[Dylos]

A Druid, Hunter, or Sylvan Sorcerer can have access to a Roc at first level, and if they are small they can ride the Roc at first level.

A Half Orc with a more limited animal companion list (just about any list that is not the above, including the animal ally feat), can take the Beast Rider feat (requires level 7) to gain access to a Pteranodon, which is large at level 7 and therefore able to support a medium rider (however make sure it's carrying capacity is good enough to fly.)

The Roc is probably the most common flying mount animal companion, but it is not the only choice (it's worth noting that all of the flying animal companions have horrible strength before they become larger, so you really need to remember that they cannot fly with more then a light load.) The half orc feat listed above is the only way that I am aware of that anyone with a limited list can get access to a flying mount (short of spellcasting).

[EvilMinion]

Hmmmm

There are only a handful of flying creatures that can be animal companions,

Two of them (birds and puffballs) never get above size small, so they're out for riding.

Two of them start at size small (dimorphodon and giant beetle), but grows to medium, so can be a mount for a small-sized PC once they do (levels 7 and 4 respectively).

One starts large (hippogriff) and stays large, but is only available to rangers with the sable company marine archetype.

The other 6 (giant mantis, pteranodon, quetzacoatlus, roc, giant wasp, giant vulture) all start at size Medium, so can be ridden by small PC's from level 1, and medium size PC's at level 7 (or 9 for the quetzacoatlus)

So that covers most of the options for what's available that can fly.

Next is getting them available to you due to restrictive list choices. Other then the hippogriff, you have to have access to the druid AC list to get any of the others... which means only Druids, Hunters, Sylvan Sorcerers, and Rangers with the Beastmaster archetype.

Then there's the special case of Cavaliers with the Beastrider archetype... at level 7, medium-sized beastriders get a caveat that lets them pick any animal who's natural size is large or huge as long as the animal companion version can be medium at 7th level.
As far as I can tell, this then adds giant wasps, giant vultures, and pteranodons (which are natural size is Large and are all available as medium sized AC's by level 7) to the list they can choose from (but not rocs (naturally size gargantuan), dimorphodons (naturally size medium), or quetzalcoatlus' (which don't get to size medium til level 9).
Giant Beetles I'm not sure how to adjudicate, since there's not such creature as a 'giant beetle' to know what its natural size might be.

As far as I can tell, all these creatures are PFS legal.

There's probably some odd corner cases or obscure reference material I'm missing, but that seems a decent starting point.

[BigNorseWolf]

The flying insects have higher weight capacities for being quadrupeds (well, hexapeds) but unless you go human and use eye for talent to bump their int up to 3 they don't have enough tricks to be a combat trained mount, and taking a non combat trained mount into combat is always a bad idea.

Ant haul and a pearl of power seem to be your best bet.

[hotsauceman]

What? A potion of fly isnt good enough for ya?

[Red-Assassin]

The Fourth Horseman wrote:

Do you smell it?

Is something cooking?

[FLite]

Isn't Giant Bat in that list somewhere? (Too lazy to look)

Or go Giant Gecko. Next best thing to flying, and you don't take falling damage if your mount gets stunned or entangled.

Druid, Hunter, Beastmaster Ranger, Mad Dog Barbarian all get the full druid list I believe.

[Dylos]

Ok, so a Roc's light load right when it becomes large is 346, the average male human would weigh 175lbs, that leaves 171lbs for gear, notably the human would need the same strength as the Roc 22 for the record in order to carry that much gear without being encumbered themselves, so at level 7 carring capacity isn't much of an issue.

However, at level 1 the Roc's light load is 43lbs. The average halfling male weights 35lbs, and the average gnome weights 40lbs, so if a level 1 character wants to fly on a roc's back, make sur to ask what they weigh and make sure they include their clothing and gear.

[Aaron Mayhew]

It's worth noting that a cleric or inquisitor with he animal domain should also get access to the Druid list of animal companions at cleric level -3, and the boon companion feat from the animal archive can bring that back up to just cleric level.

[BigNorseWolf]

Dylos wrote:

Ok, so a Roc's light load right when it becomes large is 346, the average male human would weigh 175lbs, that leaves 171lbs for gear, notably the human would need the same strength as the Roc 22 for the record in order to carry that much gear without being encumbered themselves, so at level 7 carring capacity isn't much of an issue.

However, at level 1 the Roc's light load is 43lbs. The average halfling male weights 35lbs, and the average gnome weights 40lbs, so if a level 1 character wants to fly on a roc's back, make sur to ask what they weigh and make sure they include their clothing and gear.

There's nothing to keep you from setting your gnome to "skinny twig" despite their strength score.

I think min maxing your height/weight and possibly gender to shave off a few pounds is officially scraping the bottom of the barrel but it may need to be done!

[Dhjika]

Dylos wrote:

The Roc is probably the most common flying mount animal companion, but it is not the only choice (it's worth noting that all of the flying animal companions have horrible strength before they become larger, so you really need to remember that they cannot fly with more then a light load.) The half orc feat listed above is the only way that I am aware of that anyone with a limited list can get access to a flying mount (short of spellcasting).

Also most/many of the flying mounts have horrible CON (CON 9 I think for some) - which means don't fly so high that the fall will kill you - because until they get bigger they are fragile.

-

If you only want an in combat mount, don't forget Reduce Person to make yourself small - or tiny - to aid in your flying ability.

[Dylos]

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Dylos wrote:

Ok, so a Roc's light load right when it becomes large is 346, the average male human would weigh 175lbs, that leaves 171lbs for gear, notably the human would need the same strength as the Roc 22 for the record in order to carry that much gear without being encumbered themselves, so at level 7 carring capacity isn't much of an issue.

However, at level 1 the Roc's light load is 43lbs. The average halfling male weights 35lbs, and the average gnome weights 40lbs, so if a level 1 character wants to fly on a roc's back, make sur to ask what they weigh and make sure they include their clothing and gear.

There's nothing to keep you from setting your gnome to "skinny twig" despite their strength score.

I think min maxing your height/weight and possibly gender to shave off a few pounds is officially scraping the bottom of the barrel but it may need to be done!

Even the lightest Gnome female is 32 lbs, that leaves 11 lbs for gear, and the gnomes' free clothes may weight anywhere from 1lb to 4lbs, and even a small dagger weights half a pound, it would be very difficult to have a gnome that is properly equipped that has less then 11 lbs of gear, as most of the class kits in UE weight more then that.

[Jiggy]

Numbers! :D

If I'm a human, I might be around 150lbs plus gear. Armor tops out at 50lbs if I go full plate, so it's very unlikely I'll have to get more than 220lbs of light load, but could go down to 200lbs if I went with a breastplate. I could shave it lower with special materials like mithral, or light armor. Add in 30lbs for an exotic saddle (but I'll skip barding, because the light armor probably isn't worth the weight) and we're looking at needing the mount to have a light load around 230lbs, give or take (depending on my own armor choice).

This translates to a minimum STR score of about:
20 STR for a large bipedal mount, or
16 STR for a large quadruped.

If instead I'm about a 35lb halfling (because screw gnomes) with a total geared weight of about 110lbs, I need:
19 STR for a medium bipedal mount,
14 STR for a large bipedal mount,
16 STR for a medium quadruped, or
11 STR for a large quadruped.

Hooray, now I have a reference point for mount-shopping!

EDIT: Accounted for 30lbs of saddle.

[nosig]

Jiggy wrote:

Numbers! :D

If I'm a human, I might be around 150lbs plus gear. Armor tops out at 50lbs if I go full plate, so it's very unlikely I'll have to get more than 220lbs of light load, but could go down to 200lbs if I went with a breastplate. I could shave it lower with special materials like mithral, or light armor.

This translates to a minimum STR score of about:
18-19 STR for a large bipedal mount, or
16-17 STR for a large quadruped.

If instead I'm about a 35lb halfling (because screw gnomes) with a total geared weight of about 75lbs, I need:
16 STR for a medium bipedal mount,
11-12 STR for a large bipedal mount,
13 STR for a medium quadruped, or
8 STR for a large quadruped.

Hooray, now I have a reference point for mount-shopping!

remember to count the saddle - and somewhere I saw a thread that the small saddle weight should be 1/2 that of the saddle for a large mount, but I can't find it now. anyone have better search fu than me able to find that?

(edit: exotic riding saddle is 30 lbs I think, Military saddle is 40..., so even if it's half for a Medium mount that's still 15 & 20 lbs).

[EvilMinion]

FLite wrote:

Isn't Giant Bat in that list somewhere? (Too lazy to look)

Hmm.. you're right. Not sure how I missed I M DIRE BAT.

[Jiggy]

@nosig - Crap, you're right. I didn't include barding either. Good thing I still have time to edit!

EDIT: Edited my above post to include 30lbs of saddle, but not barding, as I'm not sure it's worth the cost/weight when you can only use light armor anyway.

[Jiggy]

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Ant haul and a pearl of power seem to be your best bet.

It's looking like the options are thus:

• Play a medium race with a large wasp/mantis: flying at 7th.
• Play a small race with anything that turns large, walking from 1st and flying at 7th.
• Play a small race and use ant haul liberally: flying immediately.

EDIT:

BigNorseWolf wrote:

The flying insects have higher weight capacities for being quadrupeds (well, hexapeds) but unless you go human and use eye for talent to bump their int up to 3 they don't have enough tricks to be a combat trained mount

Unless I'm missing something, Eye for Talent would only take their INT to 2, not 3. Still a viable proposition, though.

[The Fourth Horseman]

Jiggy wrote:

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Ant haul and a pearl of power seem to be your best bet.

It's looking like the options are thus:

• Play a medium race with a large wasp/mantis: flying at 7th.
• Play a small race with anything that turns large, walking from 1st and flying at 7th.
• Play a small race and use ant haul liberally: flying immediately.

Pretty much. Being able to fly is a powerful thing, so it's hard to do early.

[Jiggy]

Seriously considering a halfling "skyknight", starting with 2 levels of fighter to pick up my mounted feats and then going into druid (plus Boon Companion) at 3rd to hop onto a dire bat and use my 1st-level spell slots for ant haul. FLYING LANCE CHARGE... for damage around what a greatsword-wielder does with every hit two levels earlier. BUT ON A BAT!

[The Masked Ferret]

Jiggy wrote:

Seriously considering a halfling "skyknight", starting with 2 levels of fighter to pick up my mounted feats and then going into druid (plus Boon Companion) at 3rd to hop onto a dire bat and use my 1st-level spell slots for ant haul. FLYING LANCE CHARGE... for damage around what a greatsword-wielder does with every hit two levels earlier. BUT ON A BAT!

I'd hate to see what happens if your bat rolls a 1 on his Fly check, though.

[Dylos]

Jiggy wrote:

Seriously considering a halfling "skyknight", starting with 2 levels of fighter to pick up my mounted feats and then going into druid (plus Boon Companion) at 3rd to hop onto a dire bat and use my 1st-level spell slots for ant haul. FLYING LANCE CHARGE... for damage around what a greatsword-wielder does with every hit two levels earlier. BUT ON A BAT!

Can the halfling dress themselves up in black spandex and insist that everyone calls them "The Batman"?

[Jiggy]

The Masked Ferret wrote:

Jiggy wrote:

Seriously considering a halfling "skyknight", starting with 2 levels of fighter to pick up my mounted feats and then going into druid (plus Boon Companion) at 3rd to hop onto a dire bat and use my 1st-level spell slots for ant haul. FLYING LANCE CHARGE... for damage around what a greatsword-wielder does with every hit two levels earlier. BUT ON A BAT!

I'd hate to see what happens if your bat rolls a 1 on his Fly check, though.

With his Good maneuverability and max ranks, we're looking at +14 Fly as soon as I get him at 3rd level, which means even on a 1 he makes most Fly checks just fine; the only ones he could fail would be "reverse direction instantly", "fly straight up", and "how did you not see that wall there?", and even those it won't be long before he auto-passes.

[Zach W.]

My female gnome druid rides her roc everywhere. Has been since level one, using a wand of produce flame and making ranged touch attacks. Even in dungeons cause its medium.

[BigNorseWolf]

35 pound halfling
25 pound small full plate
5 pound handy haversack
5 pound small lance
1.5 pound composite longbow
5 pound golf back of arrows
10 pounds Darkleaf studded leather barding

I was going to suggest a darkleaf saddle then i realized that at the exorbitant prices for non armors you could buy enough wands of ant haul for a whole colony.

[Jiggy]

Dylos wrote:

Can the halfling dress themselves up in black spandex

No, but he could use magically-strengthened obsidian armor. Interestingly, it's non-metal (therefore druid-friendly) and 75% the weight of steel, so I may have just invented the only character ever who would actually want to wear obsidian armor. Go me?

[Dylos]

Jiggy wrote:

Dylos wrote:

Can the halfling dress themselves up in black spandex

No, but he could use magically-strengthened obsidian armor. Interestingly, it's non-metal (therefore druid-friendly) and 75% the weight of steel, so I may have just invented the only character ever who would actually want to wear obsidian armor. Go me?

Except: Armor The fragile glass nature of obsidian is perfect for creating sharp points and blades, but those same qualities make it unsuitable for creating armor. Armor cannot be constructed from obsidian.

[nosig]

what weight are you using for the saddle on a medium mount?

same as that for a large mount?

or half (like small armor/weapons)?

or a quarter (like for small equipment like backpacks/water skins?)?

[BigNorseWolf]

nosig wrote:

what weight are you using for the saddle on a medium mount?

same as that for a large mount?

or half (like small armor/weapons)?

or a quarter (like for small equipment like backpacks/water skins?)?

A medium saddle SHOULD way half of a large one but I don't think its spelled out on the chart as being such an item.

1 These items weigh one-quarter this amount when made for Small characters. Containers for Small characters also carry one-quarter the normal amount.

The saddle lacks the 1 notation.

[Jiggy]

Dylos wrote:

Jiggy wrote:

Dylos wrote:

Can the halfling dress themselves up in black spandex

No, but he could use magically-strengthened obsidian armor. Interestingly, it's non-metal (therefore druid-friendly) and 75% the weight of steel, so I may have just invented the only character ever who would actually want to wear obsidian armor. Go me?

Except: Armor The fragile glass nature of obsidian is perfect for creating sharp points and blades, but those same qualities make it unsuitable for creating armor. Armor cannot be constructed from obsidian.

You didn't finish reading. :)

[nosig]

BigNorseWolf wrote:

nosig wrote:

what weight are you using for the saddle on a medium mount?

same as that for a large mount?

or half (like small armor/weapons)?

or a quarter (like for small equipment like backpacks/water skins?)?

A medium saddle SHOULD way half of a large one but I don't think its spelled out on the chart as being such an item.

1 These items weigh one-quarter this amount when made for Small characters. Containers for Small characters also carry one-quarter the normal amount.

The saddle lacks the 1 notation.

so, would a saddle be a "container" for holding halflings (like a tent, which is 1/4 weight)?

[Jiggy]

nosig wrote:

so, would a saddle be a "container" for holding halflings (like a tent, which is 1/4 weight)?

Gives a new meaning to "bucket seat".

[BigNorseWolf]

if you keep reading you see

Magically strengthened obsidian does not
have the fragile quality, and can be made into any armor or
weapon that can be made of stone.

But if you keep reading after you keep reading...

With a few exceptions (such as stoneplate, see page 14), armor cannot
usually be constructed from stone. Magically strengthened stone does not have the fragile quality.

Stone plate is half again as heavy as plate armor.

If you want to get hyper technical about obsidian not being stone so its lighter, then "Obsidian weapons cost half as much as base items of their type, and weigh 75% of what base items of their type do." It doesn't specify any changes for the armor.

So i don't see obsidian as a way of lightening the load. Obsidian can only be made into armor that you can make out of stone, which is ONLY stoneplate. The only effect making the plate out of obsidian would be the cool black tactical look and explain the armor spikes.

[Dylos]

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Magically strengthened obsidian does not

have the fragile quality, and can be made into any armor or
weapon that can be made of stone.

I just looked and Ultimate Equipment does indeed have this line, Ultimate Combat does not, hence my confusion.

[The Roc]

THE ROC IS GLAD TO SEE THAT YOU FIGURED OUT YOUR LITTLE PROBLEM, JABRONI, BUT WHEN IT COMES TO FAVORING A BAT OVER...

THE GREAT ONE

...WELL THEN THE ROC THINKS YOU MUST HAVE TAKEN ONE TOO MANY CHAIR SHOTS TO THE HEAD.

THE ROC UNDERSTANDS THAT HE IS THE PEOPLE'S CHAMPION AND SO DO THE MILLIONS...

[The Roc's Fans]

...AND MILLIONS...

[The Roc]

...OF THE ROC'S FANS.

THE ROC DOES NOT SPEND ALL HIS TIME UP IN THE AERIE, CLANGIN AND BANGIN, SO TAKE SOME ROODY POO CANDY SASS BAT CAN TAKE HIS PLACE AS THE MOST ELECTRIFYING ANIMAL COMPANION IN GOLARION SPORTS ENTERTAINMENT TODAY. NOW CAN YOU SMELLLLLLELLLELELLLELELELELLL...
WHAT THE ROC
IS COOKIN?

[Table Variation]

I, for one, am getting sick of these novelty aliases.

[Jiggy]

BigNorseWolf wrote:

But if you keep reading after you keep reading...

D'oh!

Okay, just regular steel dragonhide for my fighter/druid halfling bat-knight, then.

[Murder Hobo]

Table Variation wrote:

I, for one, am getting sick of these novelty aliases.

I DON'T THINK THAT'S POSSIBLE, SPECIALLY WITH ALL THESE TASTY BIRDS AROUND TO LOOT THE MEAT FROM AFTER I DESTROY THEM.

[Kolby Sample]

My half orc ranger has a pteradon mount from the racial feat beast rider. I have to cast ant haul on it to make sure he stays in light load but it makes for an effective and monstrous animal compaion who is also a flying mount.

I took this feat after a pack of hill giants beat my axe beak mount to death on some stairs.

[Reiji Nakami]

The Roc wrote:

...OF THE ROC'S FANS.

THE ROC DOES NOT SPEND ALL HIS TIME UP IN THE AERIE, CLANGIN AND BANGIN, SO TAKE SOME ROODY POO CANDY SASS BAT CAN TAKE HIS PLACE AS THE MOST ELECTRIFYING ANIMAL COMPANION IN GOLARION SPORTS ENTERTAINMENT TODAY. NOW CAN YOU SMELLLLLLELLLELELLLELELELELLL...
WHAT THE ROC
IS COOKIN?

I can indeed smell what THE ROC is cooking!

I smell the burning passion of a soul with TRUE FIGHTING SPIRIT.

[Pontificor the Great]

Jiggy wrote:

If instead I'm about a 35lb halfling (because screw gnomes) with a

BWAHHHH!

[Jiggy]

EvilMinion wrote:

One starts large (hippogriff) and stays large, but is only available to rangers with the sable company marine archetype.

I can't seem to find this one; what's it in?

[Belafon]

Jiggy wrote:

EvilMinion wrote:

One starts large (hippogriff) and stays large, but is only available to rangers with the sable company marine archetype.

I can't seem to find this one; what's it in?

A Blog post from four years ago. It's not PFS legal.

Blog Post

[Jiggy]

Oh.

So I guess my options are druid or Beast Master ranger.

[EvilMinion]

Belafon wrote:

Jiggy wrote:

EvilMinion wrote:

One starts large (hippogriff) and stays large, but is only available to rangers with the sable company marine archetype.

I can't seem to find this one; what's it in?

A Blog post from four years ago. It's not PFS legal.

Blog Post

Hm... I was sure I'd checked and it was.

Additional Resources wrote:

Pathfinder Player Companion: Varisia, Birthplace of Legends

Roles: Duskwarden, Frontier Defender, Magnimarian Warden, Professional Gambler, Sable Company Marine, Sczarni Tough, Shingles Dweller, Shoanti Outrider, Shoanti Totem Shaman, Sky Magistrate, Varisian Bravo, and Welcome Wanderer are legal for play.

Hmm... originally I'd seen the Sable Company Marine in the Curse of the Crimson Throne adventure path. It was a feat available to 4th level rangers. Since that was 3.5 material and the hippogriff didn't hit the official pathfinder bestiaries until Bestiary 2, I just assumed seeing the quoted bit above that it was back on...

Perhaps I was mistaken! What is a 'role' anyway?