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I'm looking at making an Oracle of the Moon with the Wrecker Curse (equipment held gains the broken condition) and trying to figure out the best way to handle combat at low levels, when I can't just use natural attacks most of the time. I'm currently debating between taking IUS and Catch Off Guard.
Given that a lot of the time an improvised weapon is something that is already broken (say a table leg) is the broken condition even meaningful for an improvised weapon? Is the penalty for wielding a broken weapon something that would only kick in if I had proficiency in Improvised Weapons, or would it be there all the time, or would it never apply? I searched around to see if this had been addressed before, but couldn't find anything.
2cp:
There is an improvised weapon (combat scabbard) in the weapon tables. It can have the broken condition. It can also be enchanted.
Based on that, I have to say that any improvised weapon could also have the broken condition (or be enchanted, assuming they were masterwork).
I suspect you may get opinions from people that think I'm wrong. This is not a straightforward question to answer.
I want to enchant improvised weapons. Holy Avenger mannequin legs and stuff.
I'll be the one dual-wielding Vorpal hand-mirrors.
I want to enchant improvised weapons. Holy Avenger mannequin legs and stuff.
Ah, ah, ah, hold on there, loose cannon. Is that a leg from a masterwork mannequin?
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Related question: Can a broken weapon have an improvised condition? Can you take a splintered longspear, and use it as an improvised club?
To both questions, I reply with an emphatic yes.
If you snap a leg off a table at the joint, you have both a piece of a broken table, and an intact table leg. As a weapon, it's would be improvised, but not broken--say, as a medium club. If that leg is then sundered, should it retain the same effectiveness? Of course not.
Then again, if the breaking involves actually snapping off another part of the leg, should it even be considered the same type object? There's no quantum of table leg on the books. Maybe the player decides that instead of a wielding a broken, improvised, medium club, they'd rather toss the leg to their gnome companion, who then wields it as an intact, improvised, small club.
Adjudication of improvised weapons already treads that fine line between science and art, and throwing another condition in here doesn't make it any easier, but I don't see anything wrong with the above scenario. Improvised weapons can be broken, and the breaking should impose some penalty--but since the improvised condition is there to stay regardless, I'd allow a player to reduce the damage dice and ignore the broken penalty instead.
Broken:
• If the item is a weapon, any attacks made with the item suffer a –2 penalty on attack and damage rolls. Such weapons only score a critical hit on a natural 20 and only deal ×2 damage on a confirmed critical hit.
• If the item is a suit of armor or a shield, the bonus it grants to AC is halved, rounding down. Broken armor doubles its armor check penalty on skills.
• If the item is a tool needed for a skill, any skill check made with the item takes a –2 penalty.
• If the item is a wand or staff, it uses up twice as many charges when used.
• If the item does not fit into any of these categories, the broken condition has no effect on its use. Items with the broken condition, regardless of type, are worth 75% of their normal value. If the item is magical, it can only be repaired with a mending or make whole spell cast by a character with a caster level equal to or higher than the item's. Items lose the broken condition if the spell restores the object to half its original hit points or higher. Non-magical items can be repaired in a similar fashion, or through the Craft skill used to create it. Generally speaking, this requires a DC 20 Craft check and 1 hour of work per point of damage to be repaired. Most craftsmen charge one-tenth the item's total cost to repair such damage (more if the item is badly damaged or ruined).
Can an object used as an improvised weapon be broken? Yes. Does it impose any penalties when using it as an improvised weapon? No.
Is it a weapon? No.
A suit of armor or shield? No.
Tool for a skill? Naw.
A wand or staff? Nope.
Doesn’t fit in those categories? Yep! So… “the broken condition has no effect on its use”
You missed the shot Remy. If you are using it as an improvvised weapon you got to follow the rules for weapons.
Is it a weapon? yes. An improvvised one, but still a weapon.
You missed the shot Remy. If you are using it as an improvvised weapon you got to follow the rules for weapons.
Is it a weapon? yes. An improvvised one, but still a weapon.
No it isn't a weapon. Weapons and objects used as an Improvised Weapon are not the same thing and have different rule sets and classifications.
That is by RAW.
Another way to look at it is this...
Say I rip off the arm of a statue and wanna hit dudes with it. Well, we gotta run with the Improvised Weapon rules right? Yeppers.
So... what am I fighting with? A broken statue, or a not broken statue arm?
You could get into a lot of quagmire trying to solve that little mess. But, it doesn't even matter. That isn't how the Improvised Weapon rules work. It doesn't matter what the thing used to be, whether it is a broken thing or not. All Improvised Weapon rules care about is that it is an object, and comparing it in whatever condition it is in to the closest weapon for damage.
So, you don't need to call it a broken statue and compare it to the weapon charts to find the closest thing to a statue, and then take the broken weapon penalties. That is not only not what the rules tell us to do, and is many more steps than necessary... but it doesn't even make sense.
The object you're using as an Improvised Weapon wasn't designed to be a weapon in the first place. The penalties for using something like that already cover the fact that it isn't perfectly weapon-like. Being a broken something-not-a-weapon and an intact something-not-a-weapon both make it fall squarely into the 'object' category for the Improvised Weapon rules.
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I agree with Remy. : O
An improvised weapon, by definition, is not a weapon.
If it is broken, it simply has to be re-assessed as to what weapon it most closely resembles now.
You cannot enchant improvised weapons with weapon enchantments, including enhancement bonuses to attack and damage. This is because those enchantments can only be laid on masterwork weapons.
In this case, the 'masterwork' quality is not a single quality, it is a separate quality for different things. The masterwork weapon quality gives a +1 bonus to attack rolls and can only be crafted as a weapon. The masterwork armour quality can only be crafted as armour, and reduces the armour check penalty.
A masterwork tool gives a +2 skill bonus. Since an improvised weapon is by definition not a weapon, it cannot be crafted with the masterwork weapon quality. Therefore, it is not a valid target for magical weapon enchantments.
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I agree with Remy. : O
An improvised weapon, by definition, is not a weapon.
If it is broken, it simply has to be re-assessed as to what weapon it most closely resembles now.
You cannot enchant improvised weapons with weapon enchantments, including enhancement bonuses to attack and damage. This is because those enchantments can only be laid on masterwork weapons.
In this case, the 'masterwork' quality is not a single quality, it is a separate quality for different things. The masterwork weapon quality gives a +1 bonus to attack rolls and can only be crafted as a weapon. The masterwork armour quality can only be crafted as armour, and reduces the armour check penalty.
A masterwork tool gives a +2 skill bonus. Since an improvised weapon is by definition not a weapon, it cannot be crafted with the masterwork weapon quality. Therefore, it is not a valid target for magical weapon enchantments.
Yep, Malachi has it perfect. ^.^