Goblin Squad Member
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It isn't only the victims my heart bleeds for. It is also the human being who enjoys causing suffering, yet can rinse himself in the mantra of irresponsibility by saying it is only a game.
Children learn through playing, and frankly so do adults.
When children play football they, and their parents who gave them permission to play, know there are risks. If the child can't take the thought of the risk, then he shouldn't play football.
In an MMO that allows for PvP, and even partial player looting, playing the game is an acceptance of those risks.
The player is making a choice and that choice comes with the risks that are known risks.
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Goblin Squad Member
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In PFO, I don't think it will be THAT brutal since we have threads and such, but the concept is still there. Don't build a settlement if you don't have the forces and trust in those forces to maintain it and protect it. Don't travel with anything you can't stand to lose. If you have the mindset of "Worst case scenario", then things will always turn out better then or as expected. :-)
I always like the saying, "Expect the best, plan for the worse." I try to live by that and often play by that too.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Bluddwolf I'd offer a better metaphor could be high school rather than just the football team. A high school has a mix of different types: the athletes/jocks, the studious/nerds, the artists/shop kids, the theater nerds, and others. But it isn't an opt-in; there's only one high school in town and you have to go. Likewise, there's one Pathfinder Online server; that's the player's online space and there is no option to go to a different Pathfinder Online game or server.
Now, like students in school, players/characters are in direct competition. Only one guy gets to be the football team captain (win in a PvP match-up). Only one girl gets to be the female lead in the spring play (think of some role-play equivalent). Not everybody gets an A+ in metal shop.
So yes, players need to understand that that is certainly part of PFO: competition, conflict, combat. But there are basic rules of conduct. Some bigger kids think they can bully the smaller - when they're caught they'll say "we were just kidding around." Or they'll be verbally abusive, and fall back on the classic "we were just joking." But those aren't excuses, they're dodges. You're in education - maybe something has changed in schools in the last 20-30 years, but I expect it's still that way.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Bluddwolf I'd offer a better metaphor could be high school rather than just the football team. A high school has a mix of different types: the athletes/jocks, the studious/nerds, the artists/shop kids, the theater nerds, and others. But it isn't an opt-in; there's only one high school in town and you have to go. Likewise, there's one Pathfinder Online server; that's the player's online space and there is no option to go to a different Pathfinder Online game or server.
Now, like students in school, players/characters are in direct competition. Only one guy gets to be the football team captain (win in a PvP match-up). Only one girl gets to be the female lead in the spring play (think of some role-play equivalent). Not everybody gets an A+ in metal shop.
So yes, players need to understand that that is certainly part of PFO: competition, conflict, combat. But there are basic rules of conduct. Some bigger kids think they can bully the smaller - when they're caught they'll say "we were just kidding around." Or they'll be verbally abusive, and fall back on the classic "we were just joking." But those aren't excuses, they're dodges. You're in education - maybe something has changed in schools in the last 20-30 years, but I expect it's still that way.
Or you can take on several roles. Jock/studious/teacher's pet and do something bad but don't need to make an excuse because the teachers believed you are a good kid. :P
It was fun times during high school. Though bullying was out of the question.
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I'm not sure what your saying here. Are you saying the forums is a place where people can express their in game issues at other characters? That is, because a bandit is bad in the game people can react to them that way here?
Fallacy or not that seems pretty stupid to me. In fact that brings up a good point. If I decide someone is stupid because of their posts on these forums, can I attack them personally like I would in the game?
Didn't think so.
Your ability to understand has little bearing on my intelligence. You weren't confident of your reading yet based upon that poor understanding you decided to pass judgment and call me stupid, which is pretty damn stupid of you.
You are posting as yourself. When you play a game online you are also playing as yourself. You are not magically something else when playing the game, you are just as real and the behavior you exhibit is real as well. There is no dichotomy between what is in the game and reality. The consequences of what you do in the game are different from what they would be if you did those things in 'real' life, but your behavior as a player making your character do things in-game is every bit as real behavior as what you do in meatspace. If you do an evil thing you have still done an evil thing.
Is that clear enough for you or do I also need to teach you to read?
Let's just put this out there then. Are you suggesting that playing an evil character in a video game is somehow indicative of a person in real life? How about the GM playing the evil characters in the table top game?
Please never join a game I'm in.
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There are lot of really childish comparisons being tossed around to make Being (and myselfand Shane by association, since we advanced the same argument) look like fools. I'm gonna play along.
Yes. If you play an evil character, you are evil. You are probably going to go on a killing spree right after praying to Satan. You will then explode, because that is what just happened to your character in the game while you were distracted ripping out people's organs in real life. You silly goose.
Now if we're through with that ludicrudity, no, we're not saying that, stop being a whacky rabbit. But there is playing an evil character, and there is being an a-hole. You do not get to hide actions designed to hurt the feelings of a real person behind the fact that you did them while playing a character in a game.
Capture all the queens you like. But when you start taunting the five-year old girl you're playing against every time you take one of her pieces, you better believe some people are going to lose a lot of respect for you. And when you start trying to drive someone to suicide through an MMO, you better believe people are going to want to kill you.
I'm not going to imply you disagree with either of the above points. Obviously nobody here would, and claiming otherwise would be pathetic and childish. So please work harder to get what we're on about instead of accusing people of the first thing that comes to your head.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Let's just put this out there then. Are you suggesting that playing an evil character in a video game is somehow indicative of a person in real life? How about the GM playing the evil characters in the table top game?
Had you bothered to read for understanding rather than presume a conclusion without reference to fact you would not have had to ask such a (adjective removed) question. The answer is 'Of course not'. I am suggesting that excusing antisocial behavior saying 'it's just a game' is dishonest. It stopped being 'Only a Game' when more than one person began playing it. It then became also a social environment. Social interactions have real world consequences.
Your football game has rules for the players and referees on the field (and cops at the gates) for a reason.
Please never join a game I'm in.
Your judgment, and I suppose it may be typical of you, is based on a fiction you imagined and that caused your opinion's invalidation.
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Goblin Squad Member
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A fascinating subject: So You Think You Know Why Animals Play…
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Goblin Squad Member
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A fascinating subject: So You Think You Know Why Animals Play…
That was only what the meerkats wanted him to believe.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If I may, I believe we have beat this dead horse (playing evil makes you evil) enough. I personally understand much better after exchanging posts here with being and I thank you (Being) for taking the time to clear up my misunderstandings about your point. I say that we move on to other topics.
After all, this thread has moved away from the OP and what the title suggests it is about, the blog by Ryan concerning MVP. Is there any other issues or discussion to be had concerning the OP topic concerning Ryan's blog about MVP and crowdforging?
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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A fascinating subject: So You Think You Know Why Animals Play…
I'm disappointed that there was no mention of the limbic nervous system and Play as a basic effect in that article.
I'm not sure what your saying here. Are you saying the forums is a place where people can express their in game issues at other characters? That is, because a bandit is bad in the game people can react to them that way here?
Fallacy or not that seems pretty stupid to me. In fact that brings up a good point. If I decide someone is stupid because of their posts on these forums, can I attack them personally like I would in the game?
Didn't think so.Your ability to understand has little bearing on my intelligence. You weren't confident of your reading yet based upon that poor understanding you decided to pass judgment and call me stupid, which is pretty damn stupid of you.
You are posting as yourself. When you play a game online you are also playing as yourself. You are not magically something else when playing the game, you are just as real and the behavior you exhibit is real as well. There is no dichotomy between what is in the game and reality. The consequences of what you do in the game are different from what they would be if you did those things in 'real' life, but your behavior as a player making your character do things in-game is every bit as real behavior as what you do in meatspace. If you do an evil thing you have still done an evil thing.
Is that clear enough for you or do I also need to teach you to read?
Please quote where I called you stupid and I'll apologize. The only thing I labelled as stupid is the bolded above which are my words and not yours.
Must dash as I need to go and learn to read.|
Goblin Squad Member
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Please quote where I called you stupid and I'll apologize. The only thing I labelled as stupid is the bolded above which are my words and not yours.
Must dash as I need to go and learn to read.
I already quoted it for you but you had to dash off at the mouth again. But here it is, assuming you can actually read and since you did not bother to read the first time I quoted it.
If those were your words you were calling stupid then truly you also need to learn writing. What exactly do you imagine your words were indicating as stupid?
Or we need to just, like, not allow people to attack people?
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Goblin Squad Member
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you are right, lets all be like being guys! further society by our DARN IT THERE I GO SATIRIZING GROUPS OF PEOPLES' ARGUMENTS AGAIN.
I apologize for trying to start a lengthy argument on a completely unrelated thread. here let me include the OP so we can get back on track after my rude behavior
Pathfinder Online's Ryan Dancey on crowdforging a 'minimum viable product'
In response to our recent editorial questioning whether we are in fact in the middle of a sandbox renaissance, Goblinworks CEO Ryan Dancey has penned a Massively-exclusive dev blog to explain why his game, Pathfinder Online, is indeed at the center of such a renaissance.
Cont'd...
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Goblin Squad Member
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MVP must include a framework into which the objectives of game play and the mechanics thereto can fully integrate. Define the objectives of play and the mechanics necessary should become evident by floating the concepts and discovering the implications, among other things, via crowdforging. On this line of reasoning we can almost not avoid being on topic in this thread except when distracted by pointless quarreling.
Good thing I am so very even tempered and civil, what?
That's the spirit. Let's dream great dreams indeed. Then when we awake we can look to the defenses because only the few dedicate themselves to justice, liberty, and the rest of what is worth the doing.
Exactly what I would expect a stupid doodyhead loserface to say. Touche!
Also, you probably voted for Hitler.