A new player is making a druid- wants to be a caster that doesnt summon


Advice


The druid is level 3.

She likes the mooncaller archtype.
She wants to be a caster, but not focus on SNA.

Im pretty sure she wants to focus on battlefield control with the occasional buff and attack spell.

She wants to be a half-elf, but I may be able to push her towards something more exotic.

Her animal companion is a fox, but I'll be applying a template.. Perhaps fae-touched or something.

I mostly need suggestions for archtypes and feats.

The game isnt hack and slash- its homebrew and noir/ problem solving heavy.

The other players are:
A nomad psionic
A finesse fighter
A LE cleric

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Redchigh wrote:

The druid is level 3.

She likes the mooncaller archtype.
She wants to be a caster, but not focus on SNA.

Im pretty sure she wants to focus on battlefield control with the occasional buff and attack spell.

She wants to be a half-elf, but I may be able to push her towards something more exotic.

Don't "push" her. If you're trying to teach her the game, part of being a good teacher is knowing when to keep your mouth shut and your touch light. Let her play the character she wants to play. If she wants to do an exotic character, let her make that choice on her own.

My spouse had a whale of a time with his Flame Druid. Half-Elven Flame Druid, now that I remember.

Scarab Sages

Storm Druid and Urban Druid both make great casters that are not focused on Summoning, but they both have to take a domain instead of an animal companion.

Silver Crusade

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Agreed don't "push" her into playing what you think is advantageous. If she has a concept but can't seem to find the right archetype or spells, help her look. But if she wants to be half-elf, don't take that away from her by making her feel she's made an "unwise" or "disadvantageous" choice. Unless you're running killer campaigns, most players should be able to play a wide variety of race and class combos without too much grief.

Suggest you see if she can describe her character in 1-2 sentences, such as "My character seeks to learn the secret of lycanthropy and has devoted herself to the powers of the moon. She shies away from conjuring others to do her bidding and instead relies upon the inner powers the gods give her."


Honestly, there's nothing to do here. Druids are strong enough that she can do well with 2/3 of her class features. Good spell list, good skills, fun abilities.

If you are determined to teach her the game, then wait a few sessions until she's got the other parts of the character down. Then, make it an RP experience, and have someone teach her the summon fox spell. (Secretly a riding dog)


Unless there's a really compelling racial feature (for your setting, the party, the class) in one of the races you think would be better than a half elf, I'd echo the advice to stay hands-off on her choice.

Even if there is something awesome and appropriate that you feel would increase her enjoyment of the game, I wouldn't go much further than pointing it out.

With that out of the way:

If she's already got an arcehtype in mind, why do you need archetype suggestions? (I'm genuinely curious, not being snarky.)


Well, I skimmed over the archtypes for her, and she picked mooncaller, but not for the lycanthropy effects. She likes the idea of being nocturnal and worshipping the moon.

I know some archetypes can be combined, so thats what I was looking for.


Redchigh wrote:

Well, I skimmed over the archtypes for her, and she picked mooncaller, but not for the lycanthropy effects. She likes the idea of being nocturnal and worshipping the moon.

I know some archetypes can be combined, so thats what I was looking for.

Gotcha.

There's a good table here (scroll down about 3/4ths of the page) that let's you see which ones can be combined.

(Archetypes can be combined as long as they don't alter or remove the same ability)


Here is her build:

STR- 7
DEX-17
CON-13
INT-12
WIS-18 +2
CHA- 8

FEATS:
Spell Focus-Conjuration
Metamagic Extend Spell

Languages
Druidic
Elven
Common
Sylvan

Ranks-Skills

1 Climb
1 Handle animal
1 Heal
1 K nature
1 K geography
1 Perception
1 Ride
3 Spellcraft
1 Survival
1 Swim
2 Stealth
1 UMD

Spells

0-
Detect magic
Light
Read magic
Detect poison
Create water

1-
Entangle
Feather Step
Speak w/animals

2-
Summon Swarm
Wilderness Soldiers

3-
Call Lightning

See any problems?

Sovereign Court

If she's got a companion, you can offer her to also take a domain, in exchange for the spontaneous casting of SNA. If she's already got a domain, offer her casting domain spells spontaneously instead of SNA.

It's your home game. It's okay to make these kinds of trades with players, to create a customized archetype. The official archetypes (Stormlord, Urban Druid) provide a lot of examples so you can evaluate if a proposal is fair.


On archetypes to go with mooncaller, look at Packlord.

Liberty's Edge

I feel that your player makes the classic rookie mistake of confusing the atmosphere (aka fluff) of the rules with the rules themselves.

IT IS YOUR ABSOLUTE FIRST DUTY AS A GM TO HELP HER AVOID THIS MISTAKE.

Help her understand that, even though an archetype might appeal to her because of its visuals, it might not be the best choice rules-wise.

NOT for a question of munchkining/powergaming, but because she may come to believe that her character will be good at such and such things while the actual build (or the system itself) does not support it.

Since you know the game and the setting better than she does, help her build a character that will prove actually enjoyable for her to play.

Ask her how she wants her character to shine, how she wants to have fun playing it, and help her find a way to get it in play.

EDIT - Just saw her build. Why the low STR and the high DEX ? And why the low CHA ? She does not want to deal with Wild Empathy ?

Come to think of it, why does she want to play a Druid, rather than an Oracle, Cleric, Wizard or Sorcerer ? All of these can get Animal Companion, can be better at her apparent chose role and they do not deal in SNA. Did she choose Druid because of the wild shape ?


Redchigh wrote:

The druid is level 3.

She likes the mooncaller archtype.
She wants to be a caster, but not focus on SNA.

Im pretty sure she wants to focus on battlefield control with the occasional buff and attack spell.

She wants to be a half-elf, but I may be able to push her towards something more exotic.

Her animal companion is a fox, but I'll be applying a template.. Perhaps fae-touched or something.

I mostly need suggestions for archtypes and feats.

The game isnt hack and slash- its homebrew and noir/ problem solving heavy.

The other players are:
A nomad psionic
A finesse fighter
A LE cleric

1. Mooncaller is not awful, but I would avoid all archetypes.

2. Make sure she has 14-16 strength, and atleast 16 wisdom, with decent con.
3. Make sure she grabs natural spell at lvl 5
4. Allow retraining rules for feats (that way if she later decides she wants to summon, then she can retrain for the boosting feats)
5. Leave everything else alone and let her explore the mechanism of the game with a character that does everything pretty well.

Just because she can summon, does not mean she has too. Divine caster means you don't really have to worry about spell selection or anything like that. Druid is not a F-up proof as it was in 3.5, but it's still pretty solid with the right attributes.


Ill talk to her. Druid might even be a fluff thing.

I was listing classes, and she was "ooh, druid! "

She does like wildshape though.

Maybe I'll have her look at this thread. :P


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Things I noticed:

In my opinion, a 7 strength is always a bad idea.
Look at carrying capacity for what she can have- at 24 pounds, she is at medium encumberance.
A sickle, a sling and bullets, leather armor, and a small shield weigh
27 pounds. A spell component pouch weighs 2 lbs.

A third level druid has 4 cantrips, 2 1st level, and 1 second level spell.
Her stat of 20 gives her 2 additional 1st and an additional 2nd level spell.
She does not have 3rd level spell until she is 5th level.

With a charisma of 8, her bonus to UMD and Handle Animal is 0 and 3.

You have spell focus(conjuration) and your only conjuration spell is summon swarm. Which doesn't have a save.
Of course, she can change spells every day, but conjuration spells don't usually give a save.
Spell focus (conjuration) is the preq. for augment summoning- which buffs her summoned creatures and she doesn't want to focus on summoning.

Have you read the guides found stickied in this forum?
It might give you, and her, some ideas.

Sovereign Court

Not every character needs to be over optimized and twinked out. If she has fun with the character, leave it alone.


Not saying that druid is or isn't a good choice, but have you looked at an oracle of the lunar mystery? Solid spells (including heals, and no need to take summons if she doesn't feel like it), limited shapechanging, tons of RP potential, and about as good at skills as the druid. It's charisma instead of wisdom based, which could be good or bad.

Dark Archive

If she's not set on a Druid try to point her to the Lunar Oracle. Has a lot of the same flavor as the mooncaller archtype. It is still moon-focused, still gets some lycnanthrope-related abilities and still gets an animal companion. More importantly, a Lunar Oracle can spend their entire carrier never summoning a darn thing. The Lunar Oracle seems to do everything she wants fluff-wise and crunch wise. However, if she likes the idea of a Druid more and is not "into" the idea of the Lunar Oracle don't push it on her. Just show her that it exists as an option and let her make up her own mind.

Edit: Ninjaed. Why isn't my Zetsu back with that Rinne'gan I ordered off Ebay...

Silver Crusade

DonKeebals wrote:
Not every character needs to be over optimized and twinked out. If she has fun with the character, leave it alone.

Amen. Instead of looking for the flaws, look for ways to praise her for engaging in the game. She can describe appearance and even traits based on stats (e.g. slender and nimble, she moves like a deer through the forest rather than a bear; wise but shy, she understands the world but bonds with others rarely). Since you're not combat-heavy, she won't need to be either.

The only part you might want to discuss is the Spell Focus Conjuration as it currently adds no benefit. This may simply be a misunderstanding about the various schools of magic.


Redchigh wrote:

Here is her build:

STR- 7
DEX-17
CON-13
INT-12
WIS-18 +2
CHA- 8
See any problems?

Yes. Those attributes are awful. Are those rolled stats? if so rearrange them this way

STR-18
DEX-12
CON-13
INT-8
WIS-17 +2
CHA- 7

Level up con first then wis for every other stat increase. Favored class bonus goes into health. Toughness would also help.

Skills
Handle animal and Perception MAX
Spread last point around other desired skills.
Leave knowledge's to +int items

Now if you were 20 point buy instead I would build more like this
STR-14
DEX-14
CON-14
INT-10
WIS-15+2
CHA-8

or
STR-16
DEX-12
CON-14
INT-10
WIS-14+2
CHA-8

Skill now being
Handle animal, perception, Knowledge(nature) MAX
Spread last point for other skills.

Shadow Lodge

Just a few things on first glance.

It seems you are confused as to how bonus spells work. You do not get bonus spells for a particular level until you have the ability to cast that level of spells. So at 3rd level she wouldn't have access to 3rd level spells yet.

Also, it seems like her skills are greatly spread out. Too much so in my opinion. Just because it's a class skill doesn't mean you should or need to put a point in it. I would pick a few to focus on and keep those maxed and maybe put a few points in a few others that are used more often or that fit the chracter concept.

Other than that Cornelius has good advice.


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DonKeebals wrote:
Not every character needs to be over optimized and twinked out. If she has fun with the character, leave it alone.

No reason to pick stats that cripple your character.

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