RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Hey all,
Revisiting an idea I had for an EK build for PFS, and I'd like some feedback.
This'll be a human Warpriest1/Wizard2/EK8.
Warpriest replaces the traditional fighter level, as it gets to be full-BAB with my primary weapon, gets me a couple of extra cantrips (and the ability to use cleric wands), boosts my will save, gets Weapon Focus for free (which I'd have ended up taking anyway), gets a couple of supernatural abilities 3/day, and gets proficiency with my deity's favored weapon (deity is Shizuru, favored weapon katana).
The wizard levels are Diviner, with the Scryer subschool for early entry into EK via the SLA ruling. I could go with only 1 wizard level, but a 2nd level gets me an additional spell slot sooner, along with +1 Will and a more usable duration for send senses, without disrupting BAB.
So here we go:
The Man with the Silver Katana (name pending)
Human (dual-talented) warpriest of Shizuru and eldritch knight.
STR 17
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 17
WIS 10
CHA 07
Level bumps go in STR and INT.
Traits: Magical Knack, Clever Wordplay (Diplomacy)
Warpriest Blessings: Good, Repose
Diviner opposition schools: enchantment, necromancy
Arcane Bond: Bonded item (ring? amulet?)
Feats:
HD1: Toughness
Wrp1: EWP (katana), Weapon Focus (katana)
Wiz1: Spell Focus (PFS houserule)
HD3: Power Attack
EK1: Improved Initiative
HD5: Arcane Strike
HD7: Empower Spell
EK5: Weapon Spec (katana)
HD9: Improved Critical (katana)
HD11: Quicken Spell
At early levels, I'll be using a scroll of mage armor if I think there's danger possible within the next hour, and then cast shield on the first round of combat if I think I need higher AC.
Once I hit 5th, mage armor comes from spell slots and my round 1 buff is a defensive illusion like mirror image or blur instead of shield.
Offensively, at low levels all that matters is having a STR bonus. ;) Power Attack keeps my melee damage up, and the Good blessing from warpriest effectively gives me half-holy 3/day for 1min at a time.
Later, once I have more spells available, I can spare slots for some key offensive spells, giving me the flexibility to pick and choose my party role (melee, range, support, etc.) according to the situation at hand.
I think I've got it pretty well refined already, but I wanted to submit it to public scrutiny anyway; feedback never hurts. :D
Thanks!
I'd recommend replaceing Improved Initiative with Furious Focus, so you can mitigate that Power Attack penalty.
Also, replace Clever Wordplay with Student of Philosophy, so you can use Int for Diplomacy and Bluff (at least, for the most important and common uses of them).
|
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
RDN ninja's my Student of Philosophy recommendation.. It is an excellent trait and covers pretty much anything you are likely to do with either skill as a wizard. You wont ever be likely to feint in combat and gather information can often be replaced by Knowledge: Local.
Where's that trait from, and what exactly does it do?
For feats you have fewer spell slots available having dropped some caster levels. I might be inclined to take Intensified Spell rather than Empower for use on things like Burning Hands, Snowball etc.
So, your solution to my having fewer spell slots is to make my weakest spells take up higher-level slots? Huh?
I would be very tempted to go down the Teleportation School route. It lets you get out of grapples and greatly improves mobility. You are also more likely to get use out of the bonus spell slots.
True, but then I don't get into EK early, which means I lose 2 points of BAB and several hit points. Also, grapples are less of a big deal for an EK than for a "pure" wizard, as I can just full-attack the grappler if I want.
RDN ninja's my Student of Philosophy recommendation.. It is an excellent trait and covers pretty much anything you are likely to do with either skill as a wizard. You wont ever be likely to feint in combat and gather information can often be replaced by Knowledge: Local.Where's that trait from, and what exactly does it do?
It's a social trait from Pathfinder Player Companion: Quests & Campaigns. (Huh. Until I checked, I thought it was in the PFS Primer.)
Benefit(s): You can use your Intelligence modifier in place of your Charisma modifier on Diplomacy checks to persuade others and on Bluff checks to convince others that a lie is true. (This trait does not affect Diplomacy checks to gather information or Bluff checks to feint in combat).
What about the Furious Focus idea?
|
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
I'm taking Empower a little earlier than I'd actually use it, just because the HD9 and HD11 slots are taken. I wouldn't actually start Empowering until around 9th when I can cast an Empowered scorching ray. So if it weren't for having to wait until 9th for Improved Critical, that's when I'd be taking Empower Spell.
Also, lots of 2nd-level slots are going to defensive illusions.
Oh, and an Intensify Rod is way cheaper than an Empower Rod.
I'm taking Empower a little earlier than I'd actually use it, just because the HD9 and HD11 slots are taken. I wouldn't actually start Empowering until around 9th when I can cast an Empowered scorching ray. So if it weren't for having to wait until 9th for Improved Critical, that's when I'd be taking Empower Spell.
Also, lots of 2nd-level slots are going to defensive illusions.
Oh, and an Intensify Rod is way cheaper than an Empower Rod.
Empowered scorching ray? That's where you want to spend your 4th-level spell slots? Not things like black tentacles, stoneskin, or wall of fire?
...You make a good point. Maybe I should just skip metamagic altogether (well, except Quicken at 11th) and take a completely different feat at 7th.
Maybe that's where Furious Focus comes in, and I keep Improved Initiative?
Sounds like a plan to me.
|
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
Is quicken really going to help you much either? Capping at level 5 spells and not many of them pretty much limits you to Quickened Shield or similar. Compared to something like a Hungry Pit or Wall of Force it probably isn't going to have a huge impact.
I was thinking of things like vanish or true strike or maybe even sure casting.
|
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
If you had a way to boost Wis to 11, then you can use Warpriest for some divine buffing as well. Divine Favor or Bless would be very useful to you in addition to your wizard spells.
I thought of that, but that only gets me a single 1st-level spell at CL1. Which stat is worth lowering for that?
Use wands. As far as I can see, there is no requirement for a casting stat to activate wands.
|
If you had a way to boost Wis to 11, then you can use Warpriest for some divine buffing as well. Divine Favor or Bless would be very useful to you in addition to your wizard spells.I thought of that, but that only gets me a single 1st-level spell at CL1. Which stat is worth lowering for that?
If anything, intelligence, but then you loose out on your level 8 bump to it. Probably best to leave it at 10 and then get a Wis boosting headband or ioun stone when you can afford it.
|
I would say bonded item: the Katana. Seriously, nothing has more potential to be expensive, and half-price upgrading is nice; at level 6 it's 4000 instead of 8000 for the +2, and you keep getting that price bonus.
Wis 10 = no spells right? If I were to stat this, I'd go:
Str: 18
Int: 16
Wis: 12
Dex: 12
Con: 14
Chr: 7
Flows a little better; and from 8 on your strength is 20.
|
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
I would say bonded item: the Katana. Seriously, nothing has more potential to be expensive, and half-price upgrading is nice; at level 6 it's 4000 instead of 8000 for the +2, and you keep getting that price bonus.
The plan is to have a mundane katana and use greater magic weapon on it (prior to that, I'm using scrolls of magic weapon or just Arcane Strike to deal with DR/magic). So your suggestion actually increases my weapon cost by a factor of like a bajillion. ;D
Wis 10 = no spells right? If I were to stat this, I'd go:
Str: 18
Int: 16
Wis: 12
Dex: 12
Con: 14
Chr: 7Flows a little better; and from 8 on your strength is 20.
Except that now I can't have 18 INT at 8th (pre-enhancement), plus at 2nd level I've only got 15 AC with mage armor.
The wizard levels are Diviner, with the Scryer subschool for early entry into EK via the SLA ruling.
This embodies the entirety of my critique.
Don't do it - it's stupid.
I have an eldritch knight myself, and while the occasional blast is nice, I find myself using self-buff and utility spells far more often.
Being able to swing a sword and cast, say, see invisibility or fly, puts you at an advantage over the typical sword swinger.
Metamagic is iffy. You're not a spontaneous caster, and you're low on caster levels. In general, I say not worth it.
But, it's testable. Pay attention as you climb your way to mid-levels. How often do you finish things off with the sword, and how often with a spell?
|
|
It's a loophole. The faq in question states that it isn't an issue that those classes are allowed early entry as they are generally weak, but if it becomes an imbalance issue it will be addressed.
Edit 7/12/13: The design team is aware that the above answer means that certain races can gain access to some spellcaster prestige classes earlier than the default minimum (character level 6). Given that prestige classes are usually a sub-optimal character choice (especially for spellcasters), the design team is allowing this FAQ ruling for prestige classes. If there is in-play evidence that this ruling is creating characters that are too powerful, the design team may revisit whether or not to allow spell-like abilities to count for prestige class requirements.
How does warpriest give you EWP? When I read the packet, it says it only gives you martial and simple weapons.
How does warpriest give you EWP? When I read the packet, it says it only gives you martial and simple weapons.It also gives you prof in your deities favored weapon. Shizuru has Katana as a favored weapon.
Hrm, it doesn't say that on my test packet.
|
|
There was an update during the Playtest. If you check the additional resources page, it states the warpriest gains proficiency with his deity’s favored weapon.
|
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
Hrm, it doesn't say that on my test packet.How does warpriest give you EWP? When I read the packet, it says it only gives you martial and simple weapons.It also gives you prof in your deities favored weapon. Shizuru has Katana as a favored weapon.
Jason Bulmahn (lead designer) commented as an official update that warpriests get proficiency with their deity's favored weapon.
He said it twice, in fact, as even after the first time he forgot to add it to the revised version of the document halfway through. ;)
Oh nice! makes me want to make a warpriest now. I'm joining PFS for the first time pretty soon.
|
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
I'm joining PFS for the first time pretty soon.
Cool! Remember to read the free Guide to Organized Play and check out the Additional Resources page so you can get your character all kosher-like. Oh, and remember that you can completely rebuild your character before he hits the table beyond 1st level, so don't fret too much over getting the details just right for your very first game; you'll be able to make some tweaks (or even complete overhauls) after the first couple of sessions. :)
I'm joining PFS for the first time pretty soon.Cool! Remember to read the free Guide to Organized Play and check out the Additional Resources page so you can get your character all kosher-like. Oh, and remember that you can completely rebuild your character before he hits the table beyond 1st level, so don't fret too much over getting the details just right for your very first game; you'll be able to make some tweaks (or even complete overhauls) after the first couple of sessions. :)
Oh, nice! Now I just need to think of a character that DOESN'T use material from books I don't own, which makes Advanced Class Guide material appealing.
For some reason, when I see your character, I picture him having a side-kick animal for his arcane bond. Like him wearing a large Japanese sun hat with a raven perched on it.
|
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
Someone mentioned keeping Necromancy, partly for enervation. I don't see the value.
As a 4th-level spell, I can inflict 1d4 negative levels. Keeping in mind that in Pathfinder you don't actually lose levels (heck, you don't even lose existing spell slots!), let's look at what this 4th-level spell actually accomplishes:
5-20 "damage".
Between –1 and –4 penalty to most d20 rolls and CMD.
Loss of between 1 and 4 caster levels (so less damage from the target's blasting spells).
That's it. So on average, we're looking at a 4th-level ray that effectively deals 10 damage and makes them shaken.
Yay?
Scorching ray instead deals over double that average damage, as a 2nd-level spell. If you empower it (to put it at the same spell level as enervation), you're averaging 40 damage—double the maximum hurt from enervation. Is the 1d4 penalty to rolls really that painful to lose?
What's so great about enervation? Am I missing something?
Someone mentioned keeping Necromancy, partly for enervation. I don't see the value.
As a 4th-level spell, I can inflict 1d4 negative levels. Keeping in mind that in Pathfinder you don't actually lose levels (heck, you don't even lose existing spell slots!), let's look at what this 4th-level spell actually accomplishes:
5-20 "damage".
Between –1 and –4 penalty to most d20 rolls and CMD.
Loss of between 1 and 4 caster levels (so less damage from the target's blasting spells).That's it. So on average, we're looking at a 4th-level ray that effectively deals 10 damage and makes them shaken.
Yay?
Scorching ray instead deals over double that average damage, as a 2nd-level spell. If you empower it (to put it at the same spell level as enervation), you're averaging 40 damage—double the maximum hurt from enervation. Is the 1d4 penalty to rolls really that painful to lose?
What's so great about enervation? Am I missing something?
The ability to stack up on metamagic cheapeners, and pile Twin Spell and Split Ray on top of Empower and Maximize for 20-24 negative levels per cast. Remember, PF is backwards compatible. Pathfinder even has Thanatopic Spell, which you can add on top of all that to destroy undead or pierce Death Ward.
|
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
...But for an Organized Play character, where 3.5 material isn't allowed, it's looking like the best it does is expend a 4th-level spell slot for minor HP loss and a minor debuff.
Seems like one of those things that's nasty against PCs (who will have to suffer that penalty for multiple encounters/days) than against NPCs (who mostly just exist for that one encounter). Sort of like most poisons.
Overall, I feel like the only thing I lose with Necro is false life and the only thing I lose with Ench is heroism. The latter is somewhat painful, but I can still carry scrolls of it if I expect back-to-back(ish) encounters.
|
Just pointing out that I believe Vampiric Touch is a necromancy spell, which I think is a pretty heavy loss.
This embodies the entirety of my critique.
Don't do it - it's stupid.
Out of curiosity, why? I mean, the way I see it, it might be a tad cheesy but you wind up getting to play a broader array of character concepts at lower levels, making them more viable in PFS. For instance, you can play a gish with a 2-handed weapon much more easily with the SLA ruling then you can normally. And its better than a lot of cheesy options, since the FAQ explicitly states you can do this.