Goblin Squad Member
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Ryan has mentioned several times the Goblinworks crew are increasingly on the run-up to alpha which is the run-up to Early Enrollment.
What I would like to suggest to everyone in the forums enough to read this post is that we agree to temporarily put the discussions about far off game features on a back burner and focus our topics as much as possible on what GW is focusing on as they work to build a good quality MVP to release on schedule. When they post in those topics at least we're not pulling their attention off into the weeds of what they want to be working on.
Possible subjects:
Character generation
The environment of the initial NPC settlement
The environment immediately around the NPC settlement
What will there be to do besides randomly stab people?
Is it better to have an alpha NDA or not, if that's on the fence.
Question for GW: What subjects are there for us to talk about that coincide with what you're focusing on but might change between now and Q3?
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Goblin Squad Member
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These are my hopes and expectations:
1. Character Generation - Fairly simple, but we should be able to use a mire advanced system later if available.
2. Each Starter NPC settlement should include a short tutorial and include all, but limited settlement services. Services: training, banking, market, tavern
3. Immediate area outside should include an escalation + random encounters. Harvesting nodes and additional tutorial activities (exploration, travel, etc).
4. There will likely be nothing but randomly stabbing people for initial PvP. I don't expect factions, outposts, POIs, etc... for quite some time.
5. It us better to have Alpha under strict NDA. Then a separate forum section should be created for EE.
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Goblin Squad Member
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5. It us better to have Alpha under strict NDA. Then a separate forum section should be created for EE.
GW have stated they do not plan to require an NDA.
Edit:
@All - I can't imagine anything we'd try to keep secret about the Alpha. That would not be in the spirit of Crowdforging.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Question for GW: What subjects are there for us to talk about that coincide with what you're focusing on but might change between now and Q3?
Probably a lead from GW as above and forums possibly. If we are still brainstorming then to focus that:
On Crowdforging I dug up a few posts that Ryan's indicated structure/criteria we could make use of (and file away somewhere: (Nihimonicon):
So when you're suggesting an idea, do these things first:
1: How will this work if 50 people have to all do it in series or in parallel?
2: How would a smart player who wanted to abuse this rule exploit it to cause someone else pain?
3: What kind of behavior would naturally emerge in a world where your rule was implemented - what's the effect of your cause?
Some guidelines to help with ideas likely to attract a lot of support from your peers:
1: Should result in a system, not a one-time action. Remember that we need things characters can do thousands of times, and by tens of thousands of characters in parallel.
2: Should create meaningful human interaction. Something you do that nobody else ever knows about isn't helpful.
3: Should involve group action. An easy way to ensure #2, and leads to interesting potential connections to large game systems like economy, warfare or hex development.
4: Should be classifiable as exploration, development, domination or adventure content.
5: The wider the set of characters that can use the idea the broader support for that idea will be. You're asking people to make either/or tradeoffs, so you need to consider who would vote for a feature for you that meant some feature for them would not happen.
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Goblin Squad Member
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While the OP is a great idea in concept, some of the edge cases and randomness in these forums may provide value and insight to the developers around how some strange and unusual ideas could impact the game - so there is still some value in identifying and debating strange, silly and crazy posts.
If it was possible to identify what is in the MVP, then we could certainly try to promote more robust discussion around those points.
There are also some things in the MVP that we could defer like strategic core systems and behind-the-scenes shenanigans. Some things that are not transparent (for commercial and game-sensitive reasons) are best left off the table until we can see the intention, motivation and expected outcome of the many game aspects that are on the table now.
Some important general topics that I would like to discuss further have been listed already along with:
- physics-based combat: I poke you and you poke me
- the initial economy: stand and deliver
- grouping and party mechanics: all-in
- spellcasting 101 for PFO dummies
- making the most of status effects
- stealth: walking in the shadows
- flanking: one in front and one behind
- hidden lore: forgotten places of power
TL;DR - Yes, it would be more valuable to limit our discussions to MVP but a sprinkle of other things can make people smile =D
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Goblin Squad Member
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These are my hopes and expectations:
1. Character Generation - Fairly simple, but we should be able to use a mire advanced system later if available.
Agree. Fine-tuning the nose shape is not critical to enjoying the game, but when we reach 1000s of players we'd prefer not to look like clones.
2. Each Starter NPC settlement should include a short tutorial and include all, but limited settlement services. Services: training, banking, market, tavern
agree. I'd hope for at least 3 locations with local market/storage plus crafting facilities (if they are needed).
Tutorial should IMO not be a 'geographic area' (a starting quest and info panels should be enough for EE'ers, and at OE we will have made wikis and welcome programs).3. Immediate area outside should include an escalation + random encounters. Harvesting nodes and additional tutorial activities (exploration, travel, etc).
Systems in place for escalations & harvesting. Sufficient hexes to generate enough escalations to keep people occupied with pve content until territory can be claimed.
4. There will likely be nothing but randomly stabbing people for initial PvP. I don't expect factions, outposts, POIs, etc... for quite some time.
I fully expect companies, alliances and the first few factions (one for each settlement), as well as feuds and SAD. Company feuds and banditry should be alternatives to 'random stabbing' from day one.
5. It us better to have Alpha under strict NDA. Then a separate forum section should be created for EE.
Getting alpha info out on these (or new...) forums will have clear advantages in managing our expectations. If they decide to make radical changes during alpha, I'm sure Ryan will be perfectly able to sell us the reasoning without needing to restrict info. Whatever the alphas say, I'm already committed through KS and will play long enough to see the evolution for myself.
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Goblin Squad Member
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One of the ideas that was brought up a while ago now was this for the transition between themepark and sandbox, players:
You will die - a lot.
I wonder if there is a way to "inoculate" players for this experience in way that makes it rub off as positive/working as intended?
Could a clever gimmick such as starting the game (once and only) as a Goblin with the mission to go find and attack and be killed by players with suitably cute/amusing goblin deceased routine?
If nothing else it's a talking point (& perspective shift).
Checking via
1: How will this work if 50 people have to all do it in series or in parallel?
A: Works as part of the introduction program, all low power and cannon fodder and provide "content for players". Fun, and if in parallel then a minor horde of new Goblins sends out a positive message to the game of these crazy creatures which could take down a single player!
2: How would a smart player who wanted to abuse this rule exploit it to cause someone else pain?
A: As above if enough Goblins then could take down a player but short-duration and chaotic mobs seems like it would be limited and positive net?
3: What kind of behavior would naturally emerge in a world where your rule was implemented - what's the effect of your cause?
A: Intended result: New players experience PvP in a fun way that perhaps sets expectations for being attacked and attacking as well as memorable experience in PFO first time.
=
1: Should result in a system, not a one-time action. Remember that we need things characters can do thousands of times, and by tens of thousands of characters in parallel.
Yup scales up for intro as a mini-quest (turned into a Goblin as part of intro).
2: Should create meaningful human interaction. Something you do that nobody else ever knows about isn't helpful.
Players know some Goblins are new players learning the pvp ropes. Win/loss on either side should be positive.
3: Should involve group action. An easy way to ensure #2, and leads to interesting potential connections to large game systems like economy, warfare or hex development.
Could be gangs of newbies let loose as Goblins?
4: Should be classifiable as exploration, development, domination or adventure content.
Introduction -> exploration of the game world, pvp system and more.
5: The wider the set of characters that can use the idea the broader support for that idea will be. You're asking people to make either/or tradeoffs, so you need to consider who would vote for a feature for you that meant some feature for them would not happen.
Open to vote: If it's too gimmicky not appropriate for intro then another better pvp intro could be thought up.
Apologies if that sounds like my fav hobby-horse again, I'm being entirely sincere it was a thought that might have "pulling-power" and help solve a concern/problem for new players.
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Goblin Squad Member
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In that vein there is an EVE combat tutorial mission where the objective is to go out and get your ship blown up.
Goblins sound a little bit fun but oh man the bloodbath in the first days of EE. And what if the goblins are so numerous then they start winning?
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Goblin Squad Member
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While the OP is a great idea in concept, some of the edge cases and randomness in these forums may provide value and insight to the developers around how some strange and unusual ideas could impact the game - so there is still some value in identifying and debating strange, silly and crazy posts.
If it was possible to identify what is in the MVP, then we could certainly try to promote more robust discussion around those points.
There are also some things in the MVP that we could defer like strategic core systems and behind-the-scenes shenanigans. Some things that are not transparent (for commercial and game-sensitive reasons) are best left off the table until we can see the intention, motivation and expected outcome of the many game aspects that are on the table now.
Some important general topics that I would like to discuss further have been listed already along with:
- physics-based combat: I poke you and you poke me
- the initial economy: stand and deliver
- grouping and party mechanics: all-in
- spellcasting 101 for PFO dummies
- making the most of status effects
- stealth: walking in the shadows
- flanking: one in front and one behind
- hidden lore: forgotten places of powerTL;DR - Yes, it would be more valuable to limit our discussions to MVP but a sprinkle of other things can make people smile =D
I'm with you I am just suggesting an increase of focus on that target instead of a total lockdown on anything else. I myself keep bringing up what our baby features COULD grow up into so programming and graphics can leave spaces to institute that later.
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Goblin Squad Member
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This may or may not still be the case for starting a character:
All players will start out as Level 1 Commoners, even before choosing to follow another role, and can slot some feats that improve gathering and harvesting. Thus, the newest players should be able to begin their careers and build up a monetary stake by harvesting resources even if they're not quite ready to mix it up in combat yet.
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Goblin Squad Member
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| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
One of the ideas that was brought up a while ago now was this for the transition between themepark and sandbox, players:
You will die - a lot.I wonder if there is a way to "inoculate" players for this experience in way that makes it rub off as positive/working as intended?
Could a clever gimmick such as starting the game (once and only) as a Goblin with the mission to go find and attack and be killed by players with suitably cute/amusing goblin deceased routine?
If nothing else it's a talking point (& perspective shift).
Checking via ** spoiler omitted **...
+1
I proposed a similar idea when there was talk about how to prevent PFO of getting a rep as murdersimulator while it is still early in EE and features like the reputation-system are not in yet.My idea was to simply put a goblin-skin on half of the players at login(no stat-changes or anything): getting killed by a "goblin" may create a different vibe early in the game. After all, goblins are inhabitants of ThornKeep(though barely) if I remember correctly.
Then again this may be complete nonsense, it would be totally experimental. I remember Project M in Everquest though, where players could play a monster. It was the only PvP experience in EQ I sortoff enjoyed.