I like it when a setting has its 'own' gods, or treats certain monster types with a different origin story.
Which is why it saddens me when I hear 'But the setting has to have Cthulhu or Tiamat or Bahamut!. It just has to!'. No really it dosnt, if you have a multi headed dragon headed creature/deity it dosnt have to be Bahamut. Give it a new origin story a new name.
The reason Golarion is so interesting is that it's so varied. We have a nation of Atheists, an Island controleed by a Gold Dragon as part of a eugenics experiment, a nation worshipping a devil as a state religon.
We honestly dont need to bring in Bahamut because 'Hes the core Good Dragon God, so he has to be there'
And honestly, if people do want any of the above* in there, they're easy enough to drag in from older material
* - With the exception of Cthulhu. Every setting has to have Cthulhu.... ;)
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Doesn't the book of the damned, the in-universe go-to for all things Devils and Demons, tell us that Asmodeus is one of the oldest beings of the universe, along with his brother? Its in the portion of the book that was supposedly taken from the in-game book written by that fallen angel guy.
1) Caveat emptor. (I mean, really, not even *close* to a trustworthy narrator...) I'd rate it only a hair more reliable than the hilarious in-character stuff in the two-page spread in Faiths & Philosophies.
2) I'm over 40, so my old eyes can't read that stuff anyway. It's all hearsay to me. :)
Isn't Asmodeus the equivalent of Satan? - the king of hell and all its devils.
So he's in the same league as other evil, real-world pagan gods such as Set and Loki and Lamashtu and Cronus.
I would point out that Satan is a fallen angel not a god.
Out of every single deity in the multiverse, only Asmodeus can boast that he is the unquestioned ruler of an entire planar realm. How could he NOT be a true deity!?Not quite true. He's not the unquestioned ruler of the entire plane of Hell.
Oh. You mean that he actually has competition? It doesn't seem that way...unless you're hinting that there's more to the Nine Hells that meets the eye.
Barbatos, the Lord of the First, the Bearded Lord
Dispater, the Lord of the Second, the First King
Mammon, the Lord of the Third, the Argent Prince
Belial, the Lord of the Fourth, the Pale Kiss
Geryon, the Lord of the Fifth, the Serpent
Moloch, the Lord of the Sixth, the General of Hell
Baalzebul, the Lord of the Seventh, the Lord of the Flies
Mephistopheles, the Lord of the Eighth, the Merchant of Souls
Asmodeus, the Lord of the Ninth, the Prince of DarknessOnly the last is a 'true' deity (the others can still grant domains/spells.
They are each rulers of their own layer.
But all those others guys work for Asmodeus, and they rule each of their layers with his permission. Every devil, down to the lowliest imp, is part of a vast hierarchy and chain of command that eventually leads all the way up to Asmodeus. Asmodeus IS Hell!
If you placed a figure like Satan into a pagan pantheon of gods, then his domain would rank him as a god. Unless the king of all the devils would rate lower than Pan god of goats and goatherds.I would point out that Satan is a fallen angel not a god.Isn't Asmodeus the equivalent of Satan? - the king of hell and all its devils.
So he's in the same league as other evil, real-world pagan gods such as Set and Loki and Lamashtu and Cronus.
You have a legion of devils? Bah, I have a herd of GOATS! Fear my godly might!
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Makes sense that, as ruler of one of the underworlds of the setting, Asmodeus (and Lamashtu, for that matter) would be as credible a god as Hades or Hel or Osiris (and even more so than Pharasma, as dispensary / gatekeepers / adjudicators like herself tend to be servant-beasties like Ammut or Garm or Cerebus).
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Our Beloved, Almighty Lord Asmodeus is the Supreme Deity because he is the most powerful entity in the Universe. Period.
I am ashamed there are Chelaxians who have posted on this thread and yet not mentioned this Universal Truth; know that you have all been reported to the Inquisition, and shall be redeemed at Citadel Vraid as soon as possible! ;)
Our Beloved, Almighty Lord Asmodeus is the Supreme Deity because he is the most powerful entity in the Universe. Period.
I am ashamed there are Chelaxians who have posted on this thread and yet not mentioned this Universal Truth; know that you have all been reported to the Inquisition, and shall be redeemed at Citadel Vraid as soon as possible! ;)
I thought this was common knowledge they taught you in elementary school and needn't have to be brought up.
You have a legion of devils? Bah, I have a herd of GOATS! Fear my godly might!If you placed a figure like Satan into a pagan pantheon of gods, then his domain would rank him as a god. Unless the king of all the devils would rate lower than Pan god of goats and goatherds.I would point out that Satan is a fallen angel not a god.Isn't Asmodeus the equivalent of Satan? - the king of hell and all its devils.
So he's in the same league as other evil, real-world pagan gods such as Set and Loki and Lamashtu and Cronus.
Somehow, this reminds me of the rivalry between Baphomet and Asmodeus.
1) I had completely forgotten that Lamashtu was a Demon deity, since she's not a well-known figure. We're not talking about a "popular" demon lord, across all versions of D&D, that ascended, but a brand-new lord created by Paizo themselves.3) My question is as legit as any other. Paizo could totally have made Asmodeus an archdevil with a stat block, as they could have made Lamashtu a demon lord with a stat block. However, they didn't... and they didn't explain why. Not that they need to, but I'm just curious.
Lamashtu is actually an ancient Mesopotamian demon who, unlike other demons, is identified as being a goddess in her own right since she is the daughter of a god. Pazuzu is also from the same mythos and is Lamashtu's arch enemy. Paizo certainly didn't make her up; the majority of demon lords take their names from various mythologies.
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I would also posit that there is a precedent for Asmodeus transcending typical devilhood. Since the 2E "Guide to Hell" supplement, Asmodeus was a deity. I'm pretty sure he retained that status in 4E, though I'm a bit fuzzy where he fell in the 3E years. The canon was all Greyhawk (the big deifying promotion there went to Vecna), and I don't have my copy of the 3.5 "Fiendish Codex II" handy...
In the 3.5 version of Eberron (i.e., the original version), Asmodeus isn't mentioned at all, and probably doesn't exist.
In the 4e version of Eberron, he was ret-coned in, and is apparently a full deity. Keith Baker said he really didn't like the change, but yea, it's there.
Also, the supposedly setting-neutral 3.0 MotP says that no one knows whether Asmodeus is an archdevil or a true deity.
Well, if we are just listing what Asmodeus is in different books. . .
In Kaballah Asmodeus is the Cambion son of the Israelite King David and a succubus
In other ancient writing he is a king of demons, then eventually one of the lords of the nine hells in medieval times where he is identified with the 2nd layer of hell and lust.
I think the lust association comes from the Book of Tobit, which also makes him one of just a handful of demons to be mentioned by name in the canonical Bible.