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Hardcore gamers already know about the game and its expectations (using available knowledge)and are already here.
Sorry to correct you but hardcore gamers mostly aren't here I point to the 3am threads for proof of that. What you do have is a lot of devoted pfo fans but that is not the same as hardcore
Goblin Squad Member
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Sorry to correct you but hardcore gamers mostly aren't here I point to the 3am threads for proof of that. What you do have is a lot of devoted pfo fans but that is not the same as hardcore
Actually I have insomnia, and this is my first time pathfinder anything :I
200+hrs in every total war, and both company of heroes games disagree with you.I'm here for the game and the rp, not the lore. Though the lore is nice.
DONT YOU PREJUDGE ME ;)
Sorry to correct you but hardcore gamers mostly aren't here I point to the 3am threads for proof of that. What you do have is a lot of devoted pfo fans but that is not the same as hardcoreActually I have insomnia, and this is my first time pathfinder anything :I
200+hrs in every total war, and both company of heroes games disagree with you.
I'm here for the game and the rp, not the lore. Though the lore is nice.DONT YOU PREJUDGE ME ;)
Brother Zael when I remark that most here are not hard core I am referring to the horror they expressed when I pointed out that my eve alliance had phone trees covering all members of our alliance and that we expected to achieve 75% to 80% turn out in an emergency at 3am.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Brother Zael when I remark that most here are not hard core I am referring to the horror they expressed when I pointed out that my eve alliance had phone trees covering all members of our alliance and that we expected to achieve 75% to 80% turn out in an emergency at 3am.
I prejudged you and for this I apologize.
Brother Zael when I remark that most here are not hard core I am referring to the horror they expressed when I pointed out that my eve alliance had phone trees covering all members of our alliance and that we expected to achieve 75% to 80% turn out in an emergency at 3am.I prejudged you and for this I apologize.
No need to apologize you weren't here at the time that particular thread was hot. I think it may have got locked so is probably no longer on the front page
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Brother Zael when I remark that most here are not hard core I am referring to the horror they expressed when I pointed out that my eve alliance had phone trees covering all members of our alliance and that we expected to achieve 75% to 80% turn out in an emergency at 3am.Sorry to correct you but hardcore gamers mostly aren't here I point to the 3am threads for proof of that. What you do have is a lot of devoted pfo fans but that is not the same as hardcoreActually I have insomnia, and this is my first time pathfinder anything :I
200+hrs in every total war, and both company of heroes games disagree with you.
I'm here for the game and the rp, not the lore. Though the lore is nice.DONT YOU PREJUDGE ME ;)
Right, because you could reach three times the size and still have 40% turnout for those calls, and you didn't think that would result in more people showing up.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Right, because you could reach three times the size and still have 40% turnout for those calls, and you didn't think that would result in more people showing up.Brother Zael when I remark that most here are not hard core I am referring to the horror they expressed when I pointed out that my eve alliance had phone trees covering all members of our alliance and that we expected to achieve 75% to 80% turn out in an emergency at 3am.Sorry to correct you but hardcore gamers mostly aren't here I point to the 3am threads for proof of that. What you do have is a lot of devoted pfo fans but that is not the same as hardcoreActually I have insomnia, and this is my first time pathfinder anything :I
200+hrs in every total war, and both company of heroes games disagree with you.
I'm here for the game and the rp, not the lore. Though the lore is nice.DONT YOU PREJUDGE ME ;)
That means that 50% of your alliance aren't worthy of being in your alliance and should be shed like the waste they are. If they're just gatherers or crafters they belong in a poorly treated vassal company in safe areas anyway.
Right, because you could reach three times the size and still have 40% turnout for those calls, and you didn't think that would result in more people showing up.Brother Zael when I remark that most here are not hard core I am referring to the horror they expressed when I pointed out that my eve alliance had phone trees covering all members of our alliance and that we expected to achieve 75% to 80% turn out in an emergency at 3am.Sorry to correct you but hardcore gamers mostly aren't here I point to the 3am threads for proof of that. What you do have is a lot of devoted pfo fans but that is not the same as hardcoreActually I have insomnia, and this is my first time pathfinder anything :I
200+hrs in every total war, and both company of heroes games disagree with you.
I'm here for the game and the rp, not the lore. Though the lore is nice.DONT YOU PREJUDGE ME ;)
What you completely fail to understand on multiple occasions is that a settlement has a limited amount of crafting and training slots. If you can fully utilise those slots with people (which I would fully expect to do) with people who will have a 75% turnout rate then you will beat other settlements with a 40% of turnout rates purely because the other two thirds in the 3 times the size you mention will go..."hey this settlement cant supply us training or crafting slots why the hell should we stay with them lets go somewhere where we are appreciated"
Settlements and players have a symbiotic relationship.
Settlements provide Security, training , crafting , access to resources
Players provide resources and manpower to ensure security
If settlements do not provide the top line what makes you think players are going to provide the bottom. You think they will stick with you because you are Decius brutus and you talk as if you are a philosophy undergraduate? Think again.
@ Steelwing: It's true no settlement can have all or most training halls. However, a settlement has no finite number of 'slots' for crafters.
They have stated that the crafting jobs will take a certain amount of time and there would be a number of concurrent jobs that could occur. This is the same as Eve and on a lot of high sec stations you can certainly queue up a job for manufacture. It may take a month or more before the job reaches the front of the queue though. Everything they have said indicates this system is not going to be very dissimilar to the eve system in that respect
what just even happened.
I happened. It occurs with distressing frequency
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Goblin Squad Member
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... you could reach three times the size and still have 40% turnout for those calls, and you didn't think that would result in more people showing up.That means that 50% of your alliance aren't worthy of being in your alliance and should be shed like the waste they are. If they're just gatherers or crafters they belong in a poorly treated vassal company in safe areas anyway.
My spidey-sense is tingling that this is sarcasm, but just in case it's not...
What if the 40% who show up are variable, such that 80% or more are the kind that show up, but only half of them show up at any particular instance? Maybe someone's taking his wife to PF Chang's for dinner or something - wouldn't want to block that, now, would you?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Everything they have said indicates this system is not going to be very dissimilar to the eve system in that respect
Except the parts where they've explicitly stated they want to give Settlements strong incentives to value new players.
Your point about limited training is valid, but possibly only to a degree. Since Training itself is tiered, it seems likely to me that many Settlements might have a significant amount of lower tier Training available for new players without interfering with what their higher-skilled players are doing. Remains to be seen, I know, but still, there's hope that PFO will actually deliver on the promise of encouraging Settlements and Companies to be inclusive when it comes to new players.
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Goblin Squad Member
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... you could reach three times the size and still have 40% turnout for those calls, and you didn't think that would result in more people showing up.That means that 50% of your alliance aren't worthy of being in your alliance and should be shed like the waste they are. If they're just gatherers or crafters they belong in a poorly treated vassal company in safe areas anyway.My spidey-sense is tingling that this is sarcasm, but just in case it's not...
What if the 40% who show up are variable, such that 80% or more are the kind that show up, but only half of them show up at any particular instance? Maybe someone's taking his wife to PF Chang's for dinner or something - wouldn't want to block that, now, would you?
Your spidey-sense is working fine. :)
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Right, because you could reach three times the size and still have 40% turnout for those calls, and you didn't think that would result in more people showing up.Brother Zael when I remark that most here are not hard core I am referring to the horror they expressed when I pointed out that my eve alliance had phone trees covering all members of our alliance and that we expected to achieve 75% to 80% turn out in an emergency at 3am.Sorry to correct you but hardcore gamers mostly aren't here I point to the 3am threads for proof of that. What you do have is a lot of devoted pfo fans but that is not the same as hardcoreActually I have insomnia, and this is my first time pathfinder anything :I
200+hrs in every total war, and both company of heroes games disagree with you.
I'm here for the game and the rp, not the lore. Though the lore is nice.DONT YOU PREJUDGE ME ;)
What you completely fail to understand on multiple occasions is that a settlement has a limited amount of crafting and training slots. If you can fully utilise those slots with people (which I would fully expect to do) with people who will have a 75% turnout rate then you will beat other settlements with a 40% of turnout rates purely because the other two thirds in the 3 times the size you mention will go..."hey this settlement cant supply us training or crafting slots why the hell should we stay with them lets go somewhere where we are appreciated"
Settlements and players have a symbiotic relationship.
Settlements provide Security, training , crafting , access to resources
Players provide resources and manpower to ensure security
If settlements do not provide the top line what makes you think players are going to provide the bottom. You think they will stick with you because you are Decius brutus and you talk as if you are a philosophy undergraduate? Think again.
Strangely enough, the major expense I foresee is replacing equipment lost in actual war battles. Since players who don't participate in those battles don't lose ships in those battles, they don't incur any expenses.
Just agree to disagree, because neither side is going to have a revelatory change in philosophy.
Indeed Shane instead we shall allow them to discover their folly in the crucible of settlement wars :)
As to the cost being gear that will probably true and just as in Eve I would full forsee organizations like mine running gear replacement programs for any losses occurring in official operations. It is merely another one of the settlement services a good settlement manager runs for his people
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Goblin Squad Member
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Keep opening this thread, hoping to find someone discussing Bartle
Possibly his ideas somewhat intersect with: Koster's: The Ready Player One MMO was Metaplace
The idea of a persistent identity across worlds but different avatar incarnation is interesting.
Curious how successful EQ-Landmark will be if they use Landmark as the generic tool/system for for EQN and another IP (zombie?) Smed mentioned was also in the works. So looks like that with their SOE sub across mmorpgs (apart from the 4 recently axed) are angling in that direction.
It contrasts with PFO's approach. Yet PFO seems to be doing some of the things Bartle would be a proponent of I guess. I think PFO has the chance to grow depth.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The idea of a persistent identity across worlds but different avatar incarnation is interesting.
That's pretty much Michael Moorcock's _Eternal Champion_ concept, and pretty close to what a lot of people do in games that let you make characters. It's also a lot like Monte Cook's upcoming tabletop RPG, _The Strange_ which is basically built around the idea of hopping between parallel dimensions where your character transforms to fit the local environment.
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That brings up a good point, are there going to be ships? I mean, clearly not ocean-going galleys, but what about barges and stuff? Do we know?
There is a brief mention of docks in the Player-Created Buildings and Structures blog post.
Under the 'Other Kind of Structures' section:
We also envision the ability of characters to build and improve roads that increase the speed of characters using fast travel, to erect docks which will permit watercraft access to rivers and lakes, and to build bridges to allow roads to span those rivers.
Coming to PfO in 2023: Naval Combat!! (or at least small fishing dinghies)
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Goblin Squad Member
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Do you feel like we do...
it's true...Slightly off-topic: It seems to me that there are a LOT of merc companies out there XD
The merc company is a pretty stereotypical "We want a reason to adventure and do things but we do not want to 'Have a Cause' beyond simple wealth" type of organization. It makes it easy to include people with multiple different motivations, as money is a generic way to support any number of goals. It provides for the unifying background without having to put a lot of effort into working others into someone's personal vision.
There is also a lot of... rebellion?... around the concept of playing the hero. People want to avoid the cliche of playing the Good Guy so badly that they have created a new cliche surrounding the mercenary, sell-sword, or other self-involved characters who have wealth as a primary motivation. This isn't a bad thing, but certainly not edgy or unique anymore.
In fairness, the mercenary does make the best thematic fit to this game and setting. It's the River Kingdoms, not Andoran, and do-gooders are in the minority.
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Goblin Squad Member
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There is also a lot of... rebellion?... around the concept of playing the hero. People want to avoid the cliche of playing the Good Guy so badly that they have created a new cliche surrounding the mercenary, sell-sword, or other self-involved characters who have wealth as a primary motivation. This isn't a bad thing, but certainly not edgy or unique anymore.
People have been fetishizing the darker side of things at least since Darth Vader, Black Sabbath, The Munsters, & Addams Family, but there are probably plenty of older examples. Around the time that people stop taking an evil or morbid thing seriously, it goes Hallowe'en. Playing a respectable hero would be the exception now.
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Goblin Squad Member
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People have been fetishizing the darker side of things at least since Darth Vader, Black Sabbath, The Munsters, & Addams Family...Edgar Allen Poe, Lord Byron...
To some extent, but I think people still mostly viewed their characters as antagonists or victims more than romanticizing and identifying with the evil characters.
And I'm sure we can take it back farther, at least to Roman times.
I think the farther back you go, the more likely the average person is to see a monster as an enemy rather than something to identify with, or even characterize an actual, serious human threat as a monster.
I'm talking about the identification with dark characters & imagery which often seems inversely proportional to the amount of real-world tragedy & terror the individual has had to deal with.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Pax Keovar, I think you're probably right that the folks in modern times - particularly since the "counterculture" - are more likely to overtly romanticize what most would have previously considered villains. However, I think the popularity of authors like Poe and Lord Byron, and probably even the Brothers Grimm, speaks to a more deeply seated fascination with "evil" that has been present for a very long time.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I would not say the current fascination is around actual evil, but moreso Selfish Neutral. The romanticism is not about those who want to watch the world burn or those who wish to conquer nations. Rather it is in the darker figures who happen to sometimes do good things purely because of self-interest, the fact that they have something else to gain. Or sometimes they do bad things, but it is to other bad people who 'deserve' it or it is in the name of survival or some other rationalized reason that makes it okay in their eyes.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The romanticism is not about those who want to watch the world burn...I daresay part of The Dark Knight's success was due to people's romanticizing of Heath Ledger's Joker, who just wanted to watch the world burn.
Touche' - I suppose exceptions do exist. Speaking in the roleplay sense, however, we do not have many wanting to play The Joker.
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Goblin Squad Member
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......players have been trained to want experiences that they don’t actually want...
THIS!
When you ask the players what the new best MMO should be like they say "totally different to WoW".
If you do something totally different to WoW everyone complains that this is not WoW.
It is time to teach the players to stop worrying and love the bomb that is meaningful player interaction!
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Goblin Squad Member
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I don't recall any official statement about boats.there was statement that boats (not even ships) would be after OE.
Not saying it didn't happen, just that I haven't been able to find it.
Ryan has exactly one post where he uses the word "boat", and he's talking about Fast Travel in WoW. None of the other devs (Lee, Stephen, Tork, Andrew, Mike) have any posts that even use that word.
It's more difficult when I search for "ship" because Ryan has lots of posts that either talk about Ships in EVE, or about shipping products to customers. But even going over those, I don't see anything.
If you recall hearing it, though, then my guess is that Ryan responded to someone else without actually using the words himself. He's done that a few times. It's going to take a clean sweep of all of his posts someday to find all of those and catalog them. But not today :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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Touche' - I suppose exceptions do exist. Speaking in the roleplay sense, however, we do not have many wanting to play The Joker.The romanticism is not about those who want to watch the world burn...I daresay part of The Dark Knight's success was due to people's romanticizing of Heath Ledger's Joker, who just wanted to watch the world burn.
There would be if they wouldn't mechanically suck. I could see playing a character that is Chaotic Evil and even low rep, but to do it with flare.
If we were able to leave a "calling card" item behind, I would have played a Jack The Ripper type.
Instead I'll have to settle killing while wearing a Green Hat or killing those that wear a green hat.