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As you all know, most scenarios run 4-5 hours, sometimes longer. There's a guy at the lodge who wants to leave 3 hours in so he doesn't have to walk home at 11:30 at night. Now I want to accommodate him, but as far as chronicle sheets are concerned, it's going to be a real pain for any GM to stop halfway through, and fill out a chronicle sheet for one guy, calculate the gold so far earned, and so on. There's also how much prestige he earned. How much?
Any thoughts on this? I want to be fair but this and the fact he would be leaving his party would make it so no one would want him at their table.
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Can anyone in the group drive him home ?
Can you start an hour earlier? 8:30 is kind of a late start time.
If the situation is unavoidable, just give him the chronicle sheet when he shows up next time.
If he needs it right away for some reason, just sign it, hand it to him, and email him the next day with the gold total to fill in.
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If he has completed at least 3 encounters, he gets an XP. If not, no XP.
If the party has met the success conditions, he gets the appropriate amount of Fame for meeting those. If they are yet unmet, he gets none.
He gets gold equal to the amount listed at the end of the encounters he has played through.
Ive had this problem before. Easiest way to get it to stop is simply tell him that if he will be unable to stay for the entire scenario, he will not be allowed to play. Its unfair to the rest of the table for him to take time away from the other players by making you fill out the paperwork for him halfway through the scenario, and it can have unforseen complications with party complications with figuring APL.
Its one thing if it was an emergency and he had to leave right away. This, though, I think is a clear violation of the Dont Be A Jerk rule.
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As was explained to me by a local VO just this week:
-He gets 1 XP if he's completed 3 encounters that session.
-He gets 1 prestige if, by that point, he's accomplished the Primary scenario objective
-He gets 1 prestige if, by that point, he's accomplished the Secondary scenario objective
-He gets gold as appropriate for the encounters completed.
I'm with BNW on the "give him the chronicle sheet when he shows up next time."
Also with the offering him a drive home if anyone can accommodate.
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That's fine for the guy leaving, but what about the rest of the party? The party's APL could change after he leaves, making the GM recalculate the last encounters and also what subtier the group is playing at. (Or, NOT recalculating it, and leaving the party short a character.) How does that work if they actually change subtier, in terms of gold, etc.?
If rides, etc. don't work, cut him loose. The game is 4-5 hours, and if you can't make it, you can't make it. It's unfortunately better to lose a single player than a whole group who gets brought down by that one player.
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That's fine for the guy leaving, but what about the rest of the party? The party's APL could change after he leaves, making the GM recalculate the last encounters and also what subtier the group is playing at. (Or, NOT recalculating it, and leaving the party short a character.) How does that work if they actually change subtier, in terms of gold, etc.?
If rides, etc. don't work, cut him loose. The game is 4-5 hours, and if you can't make it, you can't make it. It's unfortunately better to lose a single player than a whole group who gets brought down by that one player.
I have always wondered about this. If the guy leaves, should I recalculate the difficulty level? If his character got killed instead I wouldn't recalculate it, would I? If recalculation changes the subtier, how does that effect rewards?
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I have always wondered about this. If the guy leaves, should I recalculate the difficulty level? If his character got killed instead I wouldn't recalculate it, would I? If recalculation changes the subtier, how does that effect rewards?That's fine for the guy leaving, but what about the rest of the party? The party's APL could change after he leaves, making the GM recalculate the last encounters and also what subtier the group is playing at. (Or, NOT recalculating it, and leaving the party short a character.) How does that work if they actually change subtier, in terms of gold, etc.?
If rides, etc. don't work, cut him loose. The game is 4-5 hours, and if you can't make it, you can't make it. It's unfortunately better to lose a single player than a whole group who gets brought down by that one player.
I like the 'Uncle' rule. Basically, you allow the players to choose. If the subtier would change based on the new APL, they can choose to continue on as before, earning the gold and gear they would on the subtier they were previously playing.
At any time when they are not in combat, they may 'call uncle' and switch to the other subtier, but if they do, the rewards they gain for the entire scenario will be that of the lower subtier.
The example is for when it would move you to the lower subtier, not the higher one. :P
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Easiest thing I would think to do is have someone offer to drive him home. I don't know the location, but if he's within walking distance of the place played at it shouldn't be too much of a hassle to get there by car, tractor, or hoverjet (assuming one owns such vehicular assistance).
Edit: Flagged for double post
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I actually will have to leave earlier than I would like. That is because I am fifteen, Cannot drive, The meeting is on a school night and my grandmother does not agree with me staying up to 11:30 at night with strangers at a game store across town. So I don't really have a choice. I would stay untill the meeting is over, But then I have to call my grandmother at near midnight and have her drive me home. Its an issue that has no answer (other than me learning how to drive). I feel terrible having to leave anything earlier than when it ends. Though I will be learning to drive in september. so its a permanent thing untill then But I will see HOW long I can push my luck (four hours if I am lucky).
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Im going to be honest here, I wouldnt game with that guy, esp if its a 4 player table. Will he be consciously rushing things along in game which means we might miss RP opportunities? or witty banter
Then when we come to the BBEG, we have 3 players for a 4 player calculated CR. We may as well have taken the pregen along.
Trollish: Dont touch that difficulty level. Its no different to a person dying in the first encounter or 2 in, or to a trap just before the BBEG. You are down an action/s in the next combat as well as someone who might be able to tank, to cast Haste , heal and so on.
It of course may not matter so much on a 6 player table, but I think it would definitely matter on a 4 player one.
Also the downsizing for 4 players on a table rules only work when you are deciding on the subtier of the game originally. It dosnt matter if your 5 players became a 4 halfway through, you cannot offer the table the 4 player version of encounters from then on.
Of course if a player does have to leave in an emergency , then yeah the dont be Jerk thing will naturally be there.
(Id also make a comment about School age kids playing on Schooldays when they should be doing homework etc.. but well who does homework anymore ? :) )
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I'm with Matthew. I don't think this arrangement is fair to the other 4 to 6 participants at the table.
@Snickersimba: my advice would be to do one or more of the following:
1. Find a game that agrees with your curfew;
2. Play an online game;
3. Start your own weekly game; or
3. Wait until you can drive.
@Dragios: if you decide to go forward with this player in the game, be sure to check with the other players at the table—it is their game too. Moreover, those other players have the most to lose when this player leaves. If everyone is okay with it, then have a chronicle all ready to go with your signatures and initials and event information, so that you only need to fill in XP, prestige, gold, boons, and tier items found. You want to get as much done ahead of time as possible.
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I actually I have no homework My school doesn't give it out for stress reasons. I am fine with going rather slow and of course I will try to find a table able to accomodate me. Mostly since I would hate to give a bad impression on my first day. Like I said I wouldn't rush anyone else over me needing to leave Because that would be stupid.
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It puts the other players in a difficult position if you ask them publically if they are OK with it - most people would shrug silently or say er ok.
The game takes 5 odd hours. You make exceptions for emergencies only. Their best bet is to either play online or at a better planned timeslot (which would need to be arranged with the event organiser - GMs should be able to accommodate them here).
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Knowing me, I would lose track of time and End up staying the five hours. I always do that. So it shouldn't be that huge of a deal. If that happens then my grandmother will have to deal with it because she KNOWS I know barely anything about time, so if she has to pick me up at eleven at night thats because I don't have a watch. Or a cellphone. We should be fine. :) Matt, Don't worry about it. Ill bring you cookies for your homework and maybe a guinea pig. Yeah my school gives us the option to trash our homework if we want. Its for people with anger issues. No this will not be an issue, I just like it there
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This has changed from a "Boot this guy because it is best for the game" to "boot this guy because it is best for the kid" issue for me.
Granted playing PFS is much better than out getting drunk and high, but at fifteen I wouldn't wouldn't want my son out at midnight on a school night for any reason........I would also change school districts if he was in one that said they didn't give homework because they don't want to stress out the students.
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Sitri: Not to mention all those Demons and spells and .. other bad stuff going down ! :)
Hey, if he wants to play and his folks are onboard with it, then good on him.
On the Cookie front, Cookies are nice but like most gamers I need to watch my waistline.
( I dont game Weeknights because I get up at 6 to join the ratrace to work each morning)
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Thanks to my 05 start time at work, I have issues giving my all to my late starting (1800) game but I made the decision to attend that game (mainly so that the players would have a fourth and reduce the GM's tpk factor) and I do my level best to stick it through because I said I would. If it started later than that, I would probably make the decision not to play because it could impact the others playing the game (I'm loopy even after my mid-day nap).
I would say that starting earlier would probably give players a better experience, but some gaming locations are limited with their start times (one of our regular Sunday gaming locatios closes at 2100, wants us packed up by 2045 and because of others using the space we start at 1700--we make do when we know about our limitations regarding game there).
If that particular game is limited for starting times, I would say like most do in this thread and pick another day for game/group to play with. It's a decision to play, so play all you can and don't try to lessen others play time while you're at it.
*Edited to include info on real work schedule.
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snickersimba (and Dragios), my suggestion is this. Pathfinder, and Pathfinder Society, are great, and a lot of fun. However, if your grandmother has an issue with you being out that late, or with strangers at your age, you should try your best to respect that. She has her reasons, and it's more than likely not meant to impede upon your fun. Real life does trump gaming, and if you know you aren't able to commit to the full 4-5 hour session for whatever reason, you shouldn't put the rest of the table in a situation where they will lose a party member part way through (since APL shouldn't be recalculated mid-scenario).
However, one idea might be to have her come in and meet some of the people you game with, presuming she drops you off and it's a relatively regular group of players. This can at least give her some piece of mind that she has at least had a chance to meet the people you are playing with (and make her much more comfortable with the idea of you getting a ride, should one be available). Possibly even have her sit in on a session for a bit so she has an idea of what goes on, if she doesn't already.
My biggest suggestion, though, is that perhaps you can help organize, with Dragios or any of the organizers, an earlier session, either during the week, or on the weekends. I don't know the specifics of the player base at the store, but perhaps having an additional session that started a bit earlier would give you a chance to play for the full slot, and may draw in other players who might have interest in something that started a bit earlier.
Just thoughts on alternate solutions.
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I have always wondered about this. If the guy leaves, should I recalculate the difficulty level? If his character got killed instead I wouldn't recalculate it, would I? If recalculation changes the subtier, how does that effect rewards?That's fine for the guy leaving, but what about the rest of the party? The party's APL could change after he leaves, making the GM recalculate the last encounters and also what subtier the group is playing at. (Or, NOT recalculating it, and leaving the party short a character.) How does that work if they actually change subtier, in terms of gold, etc.?
If rides, etc. don't work, cut him loose. The game is 4-5 hours, and if you can't make it, you can't make it. It's unfortunately better to lose a single player than a whole group who gets brought down by that one player.
Once the subtier is set, there is no changing it. No matter how many PCs die/bail.
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Sitri: Not to mention all those Demons and spells and .. other bad stuff going down ! :)
I did feel a bit like an old man on this particular soap box....but that isn't going to stop me.
Hey, if he wants to play and his folks are onboard with it, then good on him.
His grandmother isn't on board with it. But in addition to it being the school's fault for learning at home causing stress, its his grandmother's fault that he can't tell time (or intend to make an effort to), and therefore he is happy to drag an old lady out in the middle of the night and throw his suggested homework away.
( I dont game Weeknights because I get up at 6 to join the ratrace to work each morning)
I am 5:45 most of the time.
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I could get up at 5:45 but 6 just seems like a nice even number.
Sitri: I didnt realise you know this gentleman outside of the messageboards. Im now starting to get stressed :)
Back to the original topic!
I dont think its fair or good table etiquette to think you will get a seat at the table if you cannot stay the full duration of the game.
But again i dont think its fair or good table etiquette to run 4 hour con slots either so what do I know? :)
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I could get up at 5:45 but 6 just seems like a nice even number.
Sitri: I didnt realise you know this gentleman outside of the messageboards. Im now starting to get stressed :)
Back to the original topic!
I dont think its fair or good table etiquette to think you will get a seat at the table if you cannot stay the full duration of the game.
But again i dont think its fair or good table etiquette to run 4 hour con slots either so what do I know? :)
I don't, I am just taking from what he said above.
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Seriously, can no-one at the table offer a 15 y/o player a lift? or can you start before 8.30pm? That's actually kinda late for a weeknight.
When it was just about taking a player home after a game? Sure no problem.
When it became about taking a minor home after a game when his guardian doesn't seem 100% on board with the whole thing? Not a chance.
All you need is for her to call someone and claim your corrupting a minor or some such
I'm with a whole heap of other player here, @snickersimba, see if you can work with your local coordinators and get an earlier game that's within you Gran's comfort zone.
@Dragios, I highly recommend that, if this continues, you make sure your other players know that a minor is ignoring their curfew to continue playing. There could be much greater repercussions than just how much prestige they receive or a TPK.
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This has changed from a "Boot this guy because it is best for the game" to "boot this guy because it is best for the kid" issue for me.
Granted playing PFS is much better than out getting drunk and high, but at fifteen I wouldn't wouldn't want my son out at midnight on a school night for any reason........I would also change school districts if he was in one that said they didn't give homework because they don't want to stress out the students.
My school cannot be changed. I am stuck there untill I prove I am ready AND willing to switch to normal school.
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Like I said I know how to tell time. I just don't have a watch. Sitri, You do not need to worry. I will have her stay for a few minutes and meet everyone. I will not be breaking my curfew. I Have a crappy internal clock is all. I actually throw my homework out EVERY night. Its not an issue, Plus my grandmother is fine with this. She just wants me to be happy and less depressed. She KNOWS I need to get out of the house atleast once a month :/. I just need someone to maybe Remind me to call her before I end up breaking curfew.
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I don't know what an 05 start time is?
Granted the FLGS has operating hours to manage. But starting a game at 8.30pm (that expects to run 4-5 hours) that's a 1.30am finish is a bit late on a weeknight. - how do you sell that one to your wife/partner?
...A Late starting game is unlikely to be finished by 11.30 - it's a shame their isn't a game/group closer to home for the younger play (who obviously wants to be a part of our community).Perhaps you could email the organiser of the game or a local VC (their email addresses are in the guide to organised play) and get the details of a friendlier time-sloted game that suits weeknight play.
Can't. My state doesn't have a VC yet. So I can't email anyone.
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Can't. My state doesn't have a VC yet. So I can't email anyone.I don't know what an 05 start time is?
Granted the FLGS has operating hours to manage. But starting a game at 8.30pm (that expects to run 4-5 hours) that's a 1.30am finish is a bit late on a weeknight. - how do you sell that one to your wife/partner?
...A Late starting game is unlikely to be finished by 11.30 - it's a shame their isn't a game/group closer to home for the younger play (who obviously wants to be a part of our community).Perhaps you could email the organiser of the game or a local VC (their email addresses are in the guide to organised play) and get the details of a friendlier time-sloted game that suits weeknight play.
Who is the one coordinating the gameday? I would talk to them and see what you can work out ... seems like there are tons of good options, just a matter of finding the one that works for you and your Gran
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Ill get back to you on that one Kitty. (hope you don't mind me calling you that)I literally JUST woke up and I have no engery drinks. So I will check the posts
errrmmmm um ... no lol .... pfcbg is good... or fluffy ... kitty is too much like a pet ...
go get your energy drink -- kids these days and their new fangled things like energy drinks.
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Ill get back to you on that one Kitty. (hope you don't mind me calling you that)I literally JUST woke up and I have no engery drinks. So I will check the postserrrmmmm um ... no lol .... pfcbg is good... or fluffy ... kitty is too much like a pet ...
go get your energy drink -- kids these days and their new fangled things like energy drinks.
I found him and Emailed him. It should be be alright.
Give me some coffee. I have a snuggly guinea pig and I am not afraid to use it|
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Ill get back to you on that one Kitty. (hope you don't mind me calling you that)I literally JUST woke up and I have no engery drinks. So I will check the postserrrmmmm um ... no lol .... pfcbg is good... or fluffy ... kitty is too much like a pet ...
go get your energy drink -- kids these days and their new fangled things like energy drinks.
I found him and Emailed him. It should be be alright.
Give me some coffee. I have a snuggly guinea pig and I am not afraid to use it
I'm not scared of your guinea pig!!! I'm a bunny ... with big scary teeth!!!!
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@Snickersimba: you are 15, so I am going to try to phrase this gently. You are transitioning into adulthood. Right now is when you get to decide what kind of adult you want to grow into. It is actually a pretty awesome opportunity!
So far, in this thread, you have said "I can't", either explicitly or implicitly, at least FIVE times. The thing is, you CAN.
You can't keep track of time? Buy a watch. Go to a thrift store with ten dollars in hand. Mow a lawn or shovel some snow from one or two driveways if you don't have ten dollars.
Your school cannot be changed until you are ready and willing? Get on the ball! If you are happy where you are, don't worry about it. If not, then try hard to change. Going to school is for learning. Make sure you are learning something, anything, every day. It could be math or history, but it doesn't have to be. Learn SOMETHING.
You are too young to drive, but this one will work itself out. Make sure you are ready when it does! When you are eligible, get your learner's permit. Have a plan for paying for gas, insurance, and repairs.
And please stop saying "I can't."
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Venture-Captain, Michigan—Mt. Pleasant
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Ill get back to you on that one Kitty. (hope you don't mind me calling you that)I literally JUST woke up and I have no engery drinks. So I will check the postserrrmmmm um ... no lol .... pfcbg is good... or fluffy ... kitty is too much like a pet ...
go get your energy drink -- kids these days and their new fangled things like energy drinks.
(On topic: Hope things work out for you SS. )
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Ill get back to you on that one Kitty. (hope you don't mind me calling you that)I literally JUST woke up and I have no engery drinks. So I will check the postserrrmmmm um ... no lol .... pfcbg is good... or fluffy ... kitty is too much like a pet ...
go get your energy drink -- kids these days and their new fangled things like energy drinks.
(On topic: Hope things work out for you SS. )
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@Snickersimba: you are 15, so I am going to try to phrase this gently. You are transitioning into adulthood. Right now is when you get to decide what kind of adult you want to grow into. It is actually a pretty awesome opportunity!
So far, in this thread, you have said "I can't", either explicitly or implicitly, at least FIVE times. The thing is, you CAN.
You can't keep track of time? Buy a watch. Go to a thrift store with ten dollars in hand. Mow a lawn or shovel some snow from one or two driveways if you don't have ten dollars.
Your school cannot be changed until you are ready and willing? Get on the ball! If you are happy where you are, don't worry about it. If not, then try hard to change. Going to school is for learning. Make sure you are learning something, anything, every day. It could be math or history, but it doesn't have to be. Learn SOMETHING.
You are too young to drive, but this one will work itself out. Make sure you are ready when it does! When you are eligible, get your learner's permit. Have a plan for paying for gas, insurance, and repairs.
And please stop saying "I can't."
Ehhh. I am fine not owning a watch because I am lazy. Ill be fine. Just remeber one thing: I hate paperwork (other than char sheets. I like to take apart things. Thus I am possibly going to switch into a technical school for mechanics. *Pulls fluffy and eric apart*