I did about fifteen minutes of google fu and reading rules threads on this topic and I couldn't find a set answer on this. I was wondering if it has been FAQ'd or resolved.
A Crane Style Monk in my game has just acquired a +2 Defending Longsword. In the quest for impossibru AC he would like to use it in combat and gain its +2 untyped bonus to AC while fighting.
He's planning on using unarmed strikes (not the sword) to attack his foes. Is he still able to gain the bonus just by wielding or holding the sword?
The party also has another +2 defending longsword as well. Could he wield both and gain a +4 bonus to AC while unarmed striking?
IIRC "Wielding" is defined as actually USING the weapon, not just having it equipped.
So you can't, say, equip a Cestus with some passive effect (like Ominous or Courageous) and then use your sword and have everything work all at once.
In his quest for Impossibru AC,
Get a quarterstaff with Defending on both ends.
+5 Defending/+5 Defending can give him +10 to his AC. A pair of Tonfa can do the same thing, and they have the 'blocking' special ability for even more silliness.
Depending on the DM a quarterstaff as a double weapon could also count as a two-handed weapon allowing you to add Shield of Swings feat to boost your AC. and two-weapon defense. (Your Mileage May Vary)
Respectfully,
--Bacon
This all makes sense to me. Thanks, guys.
Whether two different weapons (or a double weapon) possessing the defending property on both weapons/ends stack their bonuses to AC is dubious and not clear.
As a GM, I personally lean towards them not stacking with each other.
Regardless, as it is the player must utilize the defending weapon to make attacks with in order to receive the AC bonus. He cannot just hold it and receive the bonus.
In order to use the defending property towards your AC you MUST use the weapon that round. The only way to use two +2 Defending Longswords and get +4 bonus to AC, then you would actually have to use both of the longsords to attack. Your AC might go up a little but good luck ever hitting anything.
It is not enough to just have the longsword in hand or on your person.
"Defending Weapon Property: Do I have to make attack rolls with the weapon to gain its AC bonus?
Yes. Merely holding a defending weapon is not sufficient. Unless otherwise specified, you have to use a magic item in the manner it is designed (use a weapon to make attacks, wear a shield on your arm so you can defend with it, and so on) to gain its benefits.
Therefore, if you don't make an attack roll with a defending weapon on your turn, you don't gain its defensive benefit.
Likewise, while you can give a shield the defending property (after you've given it a +1 enhancement bonus to attacks, of course), you wouldn't get the AC bonus from the defending property unless you used the shield to make a shield bash that round--unless you're using the shield as a weapon (to make a shield bash), the defending weapon property has no effect.
—Sean K Reynolds, 06/06/11"
He could make an attack with his lovest BaB and then make unarmed attacks from there.
He could make an attack with his lovest BaB and then make unarmed attacks from there.
I was just responding to the original post that said he had two longswords that he was going to use. No matter how you slice that makes for a very sub-par monk when it comes to fighting.
As for fighting with his lowest attack first, the rules say:
"If you get multiple attacks because your base attack bonus is high enough, you must make the attacks in order from highest bonus to lowest. If you are using two weapons, you can strike with either weapon first. If you are using a double weapon, you can strike with either part of the weapon first."
So it depends on what he is fighting with and how he decides to use them as to whether or not he can fight out of sequence between one weapon and another but he has to go in order of highest bonus to lowest.
The Quarterstaff idea is the best for a monk like this as he could take the two-weapon fighting feats and use it effectively while gaining the benefits that he wants to his AC. I still think there are better ways to get the AC high than relying on the Defending property.
Whether two different weapons (or a double weapon) possessing the defending property on both weapons/ends stack their bonuses to AC is dubious and not clear.
As a GM, I personally lean towards them not stacking with each other.
Regardless, as it is the player must utilize the defending weapon to make attacks with in order to receive the AC bonus. He cannot just hold it and receive the bonus.
In my mind it would be like saying that two weapons/double weapon both with the 'speed' enhancement wouldn't get the extra attack.
Especially with defending being a bonus that 'stacks with all others'
I'd lean towards allowing it, as it stands now.
But yes, you are absolutely right about the weapon needing to be 'used' not just 'held'
Very Respectfully,
--Bacon
Whether two different weapons (or a double weapon) possessing the defending property on both weapons/ends stack their bonuses to AC is dubious and not clear.
As a GM, I personally lean towards them not stacking with each other.
Regardless, as it is the player must utilize the defending weapon to make attacks with in order to receive the AC bonus. He cannot just hold it and receive the bonus.
In my mind it would be like saying that two weapons/double weapon both with the 'speed' enhancement wouldn't get the extra attack.
Especially with defending being a bonus that 'stacks with all others'
I'd lean towards allowing it, as it stands now.
But yes, you are absolutely right about the weapon needing to be 'used' not just 'held'
Very Respectfully,
--Bacon
Two weapons with the speed enhancement both don't grant an extra attack. You only get one extra attack from weapons with the speed enhancement.
This benefit is not cumulative with similar effects, such as a haste spell.
Also, their is the argument that "all others" means not itself.
Are you sure?
A rapier +1 with the speed enhancement, and a dagger +1 with the speed enhancement wielded by a TWF bard would not give an extra attack with each weapon?
Could you point me in the right direction?
Very Respectfully,
--Bacon
There are two schools of thought on this.
One says that the wording of Speed, "When making a full-attack action, the wielder of a speed weapon may make one extra attack with it," is specific to the weapon and the last little line of "This benefit is not cumulative with similar effects, such as a haste spell" is only regarding that weapon and the effects of a Haste spell or other means of getting an extra attack, Blessings of Fervor, etc.
The other says that the line about it not stacking is all inclusive and means that you can only ever get a net of one extra attack total, not per weapon, from a Speed or Haste effect.
I tend to be in the latter camp. However, seeing how non-casters seem to get taken to the cleaners on most things I would be willing to give it a try in one of my games.
Are you sure?
A rapier +1 with the speed enhancement, and a dagger +1 with the speed enhancement wielded by a TWF bard would not give an extra attack with each weapon?
Could you point me in the right direction?
Very Respectfully,
--Bacon
I'm absolutely positive. You will only get one extra attack from the Speed property. Having an additional Speed weapon will not grant a second extra attack.
When making a full-attack action, the wielder of a speed weapon may make one extra attack with it. The attack uses the wielder's full base attack bonus, plus any modifiers appropriate to the situation. (This benefit is not cumulative with similar effects, such as a haste spell.)
Speed is a similar effect to Speed, in fact it's the same exact effect.
Boo! Thanks for correcting me.
(I am still firmly in the camp that dual defending weapons would stack though. :) )
Very Respectfully,
--Bacon
Boo! Thanks for correcting me.
(I am still firmly in the camp that dual defending weapons would stack though. :) )
Very Respectfully,
--Bacon
Well, the board tried to get an FAQ on the Defending property but we never got an official response to the question. It is a bit unclear about whether it should or shouldn't.
I don't think it should, but if someone actually purchases two weapons (which means twice the cost), and makes a full attack with it (which they would need to in order to apply the defending property since it doesn't work if you're just holding it) then the penalties from two weapon fighting and the reduction in enhancements bonuses will mean they wont be hitting much of anything. So you might not be able to hit them, but they wont be able to hit anything either.
What could be more similar than the exact same thing? I don't see how this could be a question and I give most arguments a lot of leeway.