Looking for some advice from fellow DMs on lazy players.
What do you all do, or have you done, to mitigate or prevent players being lazy and not having their characters ready before session? I have players coming into a session and spending the first hour or three making, updating, or leveling their character. It happens a lot, sadly, for various reasons, but is worst when we start a new adventure, level up, or have a new character come in. last time we arrived at 4pm and didn't start play 'til 8:30, then ended at 10.
Looking for some advice from fellow DMs on lazy players.
What do you all do, or have you done, to mitigate or prevent players being lazy and not having their characters ready before session? I have players coming into a session and spending the first hour or three making, updating, or leveling their character. It happens a lot, sadly, for various reasons, but is worst when we start a new adventure, level up, or have a new character come in. last time we arrived at 4pm and didn't start play 'til 8:30, then ended at 10.
Have you tried talking to them about it?
Maybe you could discuss possibilities of having a set amount of "character maintenance" time built into the schedule, but once that time is up, you start whether people are ready or not.
I try to have a character generation session whenever we start a new game. It takes the whole game session but we play the same campaigns for 2-3 years at a time. Part of that includes some development planning so leveling is faster. I also level characters by story points so the first hour after that we all level up together.
If we have to replace a character or player I try to coordinate with them out of session, but I make sure to take the initiative on that.
In my group it's generally accepted that the first session is for character creation and concept meshing, and we level up together at the end of the session.
That being said, when we can't or don't we know we're expected to come ready to game, and plan accordingly. Do your players know what's expected of them?
A lot of, if not all of these threads can be resolved with communication, and you're not out of line by telling everyone to come ready. Just stay cool and don't get personal and it should be fine.
Looking for some advice from fellow DMs on lazy players.
What do you all do, or have you done, to mitigate or prevent players being lazy and not having their characters ready before session? I have players coming into a session and spending the first hour or three making, updating, or leveling their character. It happens a lot, sadly, for various reasons, but is worst when we start a new adventure, level up, or have a new character come in. last time we arrived at 4pm and didn't start play 'til 8:30, then ended at 10.
I empathize completely: this kind of thing drives me crazy.
But are you sure your players are "lazy"? There are different ways to deal with the situation, depending on what is actually the underlying cause of the problem. And it's entirely possible that each player has a different issue.
If your players have just gotten into the habit of doing this or think that this is the way you want it, then maybe just pointing out that this is unacceptable might be enough.
If your players are just forgetting, sending out reminders a couple of days before the scheduled game time might help.
If players aren't confident enough to level up without help or if they want to coordinate with the other players to make sure the group has what it needs, then it might help to encourage the players to coordinate over email, or maybe offer to review characters if players send them to you between sessions. When we're starting new games, we usually meet socially to discuss characters and get everything set up without planning to play.
If a player is honestly, sincerely busy and simply doesn't have time to deal with the character outside of the scheduled time, then any reminders or out-of-game commitments won't work. In this case, you'd have to sit down with the player and discuss what the options are, see if there's anything you can work out. Scheduling an extra hour in front of each game to work out character issues might be an option, but it might not be doable.
If the players are just slackers who can't be arsed to be prepared for the game no matter what you do, I'm not sure there is any real solution outside of finding different players.
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Wow that's bad. I've only gone some place to do PFS once, but that happened there. not sure how much time the guy spent though. Either way, it sucks to wait.
Primus Agnarok
Yeah, unfortunately this has become a recurring theme. As a player, leveling up is, like, my favorite thing EVER, so having players come to a game and not have even started leveling their character makes my mind completely fail.
Play with people who actually want to play the game?
Honestly, yeah, I've thought seriously about this. In most every other aspect of the game, the players have zeal and interest. But when it comes to the out of session work they have to put in, they're just bloody lazy. Not all of them. But the ones that are lazy more than make up for the ones that aren't lazy.
fallingphoenix: I'm not sure that would work well for us. We get one session a month, and it could be between 4 and 6 hours in length, at most. Spending even an hour of that on character prep is just plain rude to the other players. Last session, the one character that DID have his character ready to go was completely livid that his time was being wasted. And I don't blame him, because I was pretty much the same way (only with much more resignation and defeat built in, after all this time).
BigDTBone, Kazmüd Khazmüd: We generally do the same thing. In the case of the previous First Session of the Campaign, however (we literally started a backup campaign for the frequent attenders since some people have bad attendance), people have over a month to make characters, and still came to the session halfway done (for one person) completely unstarted (for another), (and mostly finished) for a third. Only one person was actually done with their character.
In general, I have to say yes and no on communication. I feel like my communication is excellent. I send out emails and put posts on our wiki frequently to remind people. I send texts and make calls to ensure people know what's going on and when (and when I expect stuff by). I do this SO much, in fact, that this has stopped feeling like a game to me, and I'm reminded of my days managing a section of a department store. It feels like work, and I feel like the hapless manager that lacks any real incentive with which to encourage his employees. And since we're all friends, harsher options aren't easily available. Sometimes it really makes me wish I played with people that weren't friends, that way we could be more brisk and serious. It makes it easier to call people out.
Jaelithe: That's what I'm doing today. All my players but one got their characters in, nominally, by the deadline of Friday evening (we play Sunday at 4pm), which gives me, in theory, enough time to go over their character and send it back for correction. The last player sent it to me Saturday afternoon, so way late, and I no longer had the opportunity to audit it. So he's playing today at the previous level, because there were so MANY mistakes on his character sheet that it's just not usable. It honestly looks like he spent about 5 minutes attempting to level it up as fast as possible to get it in as quickly as he could.
Gwen Smith: I can't be positive, of course, but I'm fairly certain it's laziness. They seem to enjoy playing, and they insist that they want to play and want to be there. They make sacrifices to be there...just not to have their characters ready. The thing I struggle with is making it so that the people that are prepared don't suffer along with the people that aren't. Because that just sucks for them. If we have to call a stop session because half the group wasn't ready, that's just overtly unfair for the people that did their task properly.
They're definitely not "just forgetting." I send out reminders pretty constantly. I feel like I nag them, to be frank. And they DEFINITELY know that I'm not happy with the certain status quo.
The players are free to level up together or through email. With one exception, all players are, supposedly, excellent at building their own characters, by virtue of long practice, or, in one case, a belief in self-excellence. Even the one that doesn't know how to do it well manages, though. She got her character in on time and had virtually no mistakes on her sheet.
Sadly, we can't schedule more time, due to scheduling constraints.
I'm leaning, quite depressedly, towards your statement that they may just be slackers and don't care, much though that sucks to admit. :(
Today I'm going to try having the one player play a level down. Next week, though, we have a new player joining our backup campaign, and I expect he will not be ready, and one of the established players will still not have finished her character from the previous two sessions. What should I do in that case? I can easily play without the first player, but the second is already in the storyline. Hard to just remove her.
@ Brogue the rogue: My own take: You dont have a sheet, you dont play.
Then again, I do reserve time at my table for level-ups & such, AND I keep the player's character sheets. Nobody can claim to have forgotten to bring their sheet. I was surprised when another GM first asked me this, but it works really well, and forces people to know what they want to do with their build (since they must level at the table).
I tell players I need a copy of their character sheet before a game session starts. So, if I don't have a copy they don't play. Depending on the campaign or AP it's pretty easy to work in an additional character within the first couples levels. Whenever their sheet is ready they can join, but if everyone else is ready we're not waiting for you.
@ Brogue the rogue: My own take: You dont have a sheet, you dont play.
Then again, I do reserve time at my table for level-ups & such, AND I keep the player's character sheets. Nobody can claim to have forgotten to bring their sheet. I was surprised when another GM first asked me this, but it works really well, and forces people to know what they want to do with their build (since they must level at the table).
I have players leave their sheets as well unless they request to take it for something which requires more specific data to compile. I have a player who has made custom laminated sheets for sorcerer spell slots and special abilities and SLA's that they can check off daily uses for easier tracking. They needed the sheet to do that.
But leaving sheets at my place helps with making sure the players have their supplies. Character building and leveling during game time is a natural extension from that position.
So, I would say, if your players don't take care of this stuff outside game time that you should just expect to do it in-session and don't stress over it. Building characters is a fun part of the game too.
I would send them messages asking them WHEN they were going to level up their character. Then you follow up to see if it is done, and why it has not been done.
Yeah, I cut my post, Brogue. I'm just in a bad mood, today.
It's alright. I don't recall the specifics of your post, but I certainly don't recall being offended by anything I read yesterday.
Williamoak: If we were to do this, I'm quite certain that we'd never actually play. ><
Also, all of my players like to use their laptop/tablet to play. No one uses paper, anymore. It just sort of evolved to that.
Claxon: I also require a copy of their character sheets, mainly so that I can make rolls for them without them knowing what I'm doing, so as to avoid the situation where players are forced to pretend to not know something in character that they know out of character (like if someone just failed a dominate). I also use it to do a lot of rolling before sessions for monster identifies and stuff so I can streamline the combats.
As to your suggestion, the problem I have with it is two fold. First, it's pretty common that I have more than one person that's not actually ready. In that case, when half the group isn't ready for play...it's hard to actually start the adventure. Especially if/when we're in a situation where the whole group is needed for combat. And on that same vein, how do you handle phasing characters out without stretching the story's believability?
Williamoak: If we were to do this, I'm quite certain that we'd never actually play. ><
Also, all of my players like to use their laptop/tablet to play. No one uses paper, anymore. It just sort of evolved to that.
Claxon: I also require a copy of their character sheets, mainly so that I can make rolls for them without them knowing what I'm doing, so as to avoid the situation where players are forced to pretend to not know something in character that they know out of character (like if someone just failed a dominate). I also use it to do a lot of rolling before sessions for monster identifies and stuff so I can streamline the combats.
As to your suggestion, the problem I have with it is two fold. First, it's pretty common that I have more than one person that's not actually ready. In that case, when half the group isn't ready for play...it's hard to actually start the adventure. Especially if/when we're in a situation where the whole group is needed for combat. And on that same vein, how do you handle phasing characters out without stretching the story's believability?
That's ... pretty unfortunate. They clearly know about the problem (you've told them) but they are in no way ready to acknowledge it. Which can be unpleasant. While I do play with certain online resources (namely myth-weavers) because I also play online, you've convinced me that keeping paper versions is necessary, if only to avoid your situation.
Note: I do leave max 30 minutes for the update, with ressources (laptop & books) available. That timing thing is important to enforce, especially if you're dealing with friends (who may know you too well to be intimidated by you). I generally run "softcore" games, but on all other aspects (time, rulings, char creation) I'm pretty intransigent.
Another possibility: you keep their (printed) character sheets. If they dont have the new one on time, they have to use the old. It's all I can think of.
Another way: "freeze" your campaign at one level. Choose an arbitrary level, say ok, the whole campaign will be played at that, no leveling. It's a sideways way to deal with the problem, but they wont be wasting time...
I really wish I could help, because I actually LIKE the part of the game where you add numbers to your sheet. Always do it right after a game finishes. But that's me.
If half your table (or more) shows up without characters ready to play you have a serious problem. Either they don't respect you or they don't take the game seriously. Which is fine, not everyone wants to be super into it, some just find it a fun way to hang out with friends. So you may need to address what expectations your players have versus what you have.
If you have half your players show up not ready, tell them that you wont be playing that night and that they should get their characters ready. You can stay and help them, or leave. Whatever floats your boat. But you have to connect their actions (or lack thereof) with suitable consequences. If it's only one player who doesn't have a character ready to start a campaign inform them that they can join after they're ready. If only one player hasn't updated their character tell them they have to play it as is, effectively a level behind since they couldn't be bothered to update it.
By the way, in my earlier post I wasn't talking about phasing characters out after a campiagn started only talking about phasing them in at the beginning of a campaign. However, it is often that characters get phased out, at least temporarily, because people miss and there isn't much to be done about it.
Try this:
keep thier sheet (or a copy). Tell them your problem and that your solution is to do the level up for them. Email the changes and additions (don't change anything previous, just do a level up). Get thier OK or thier revisions. If this process isn't done by the end of the first week, then they play thier unleveled character.
Keep doing it this way until they do it themselves.
For a lot of people, leveling up is a chore they would rather not do. (That's why it doesn't get done until push comes to shove.) This way all they have to do is say Yes to your hp and skill point additions and Maybe to your feat additions (or that's not what I had in mind).
Odds are, though, you're just stuck. Some people just won't do homework.
It sounds as though the biggest problem may be the fact that you only play once a month (which I realize may not be something that you can easily fix). With so much time between sessions, its real easy to put the game on the backburner between sessions. It's the old "Bah! I don't need to level up now, I have an entire month to do so." Then, as the month progresses, they forget about it because its not really pressing and its not until Saturday morning that they realize the sheet isn't updated, but they still have to mow the yard, take the kid to the soccer game, run by the grocery, etc.
Assuming that playing more often is not an option (which I completely get), the next best thing I can think of is to simply say "Hey, we're starting at 4:30 (i.e. X minutes after everyone arrives). If the players do not have an updated character sheet, they go with the one they had last time. If that means that they struggle more with the adventure that night because they are playing a level below where they should be, then so be it. In fact, that's what will inspire them to come prepared.
All in all though it sounds as though you have Beer and Pretzels group that just likes hanging out and chatting and that the game is really secondary. Absolutely nothing wrong with that, but until you give them a reason to change, odds are that they won't.
Yeah, same here. I quite enjoy leveling up as a player. This is not a problem I've had before, so I don't really know how to handle it. I've actually slowed their leveling substantially just because I can't deal with them leveling up frequently because, well, they DON'T level up frequently, but freezing their level would cause a riot. *rolls eyes*.
Last session the player that had to use his old character was pretty upset about it, but that anger was directed primarily at me. He wasn't contrite about his failure to perform or produce a sheet; he just seemed mad that I wasn't letting him use his higher level.
Yeah, same here. I quite enjoy leveling up as a player. This is not a problem I've had before, so I don't really know how to handle it. I've actually slowed their leveling substantially just because I can't deal with them leveling up frequently because, well, they DON'T level up frequently, but freezing their level would cause a riot. *rolls eyes*.
Last session the player that had to use his old character was pretty upset about it, but that anger was directed primarily at me. He wasn't contrite about his failure to perform or produce a sheet; he just seemed mad that I wasn't letting him use his higher level.
As I thought, this is a social/priorities issue. They're there "for the heck of it", so they care less. It's unfortunate. Considering how hard it is for me to find a game period, every minute is precious. Dont know what to reccomend.
My players come prepared to play, or must play their characters as they are at the appointed (and agreed upon) start time. If that means they end up playing a level below everyone else or are under-equipped for the adventure, so be it - they're stuck that way until the end of the gaming session (or maybe until the first break). It's a house rule, so everyone knows that it's expected of them to be on time and ready to play. It's also a mutual respect thing not just for me but for everyone else sitting around the table.
I will work things out with people who are late due to unforeseen circumstances (and are not habitual offenders). No one is perfect and dragon scat happens.
I play with several friends, some of who are more into the mechanical aspects than others and some are busier than others. All enjoy playing, and we all enjoy getting together which is our primary focus, the role playing is an activity we all enjoy, but the company is first and foremost the object of the exercise.
Some of my friends need help with the system mastery aspects of it. Particularly choosing feats and spells. They don't have the time, or the interest to read through the 100s of options and find the best ones.
So I make plans to deal with the fact that they won't level up on their own.
Typically I plan on 1/2 an hour at least of just getting into the mood anyway, some random talk, etc. I use this time to make sure everyone is ready to play, giving advice when needed. Generally speaking, if someone knows the game well, leveling up only takes 10-15 minutes (and there is always myself or another player who knows the game well to make that the number for even those people who don't know the system that well.)
When I know there is something more complicated with a player who isn't going to be able to get it done themselves, I make special plans to handle it. Getting together with them one on one, providing special resources (like an email with several good feats they could choose from) or arranging for another player to help them out.
Basically, don't think your players a 'lazy' just because they don't enjoy a part of the game you love (the mechanical exercise of leveling) realize instead that they have other priorities in their life, they probably aren't going to do a lot of 'homework' for what should be a recreational activity, and find a way to make it all run smoothly so you all can do the part you like: playing the game.
TriOmegaZero, having read all of this, that's the answer I had just decided upon. If, as a lot of people have hinted, they really just aren't interested in playing, maybe some of them shouldn't be playing. I've decided that I'm going to bring up to the group whether or not they even want to play, or if we should just stop playing altogether, because I am getting, now that I think about it, a lot of clues that people just aren't interested. Which is fine. For them. But if they're wasting other people's time that's not really ok by my book.
What *is* slightly annoying is that I have to be the one that is confrontational about it, while everyone else gets to hide behind a shield of passive aggressiveness.
Thanks, everyone, for your input and advice. It's been a big help.
You do NOT have to be confrontational about it, but you DO have to confront the problem. They are different things.
"Look guys, I've noticed that things are going very slowly when it comes to leveling up characters and getting ready for sessions... This makes me feel like you guys aren't really as interesting in playing as I am. Is this the case? I don't want to feel like I'm forcing you guys to be here..."
I know this sounds mushy and silly, but tell them how YOU feel. They can't dispute your feelings. This is usually the best way to start an honest discussion (and is the type of counseling you would get for relationships, lol, but it does work.) On the flip side, telling a person what they are thinking, will just start an argument.
You do NOT have to be confrontational about it, but you DO have to confront the problem. They are different things.
"Look guys, I've noticed that things are going very slowly when it comes to leveling up characters and getting ready for sessions... This makes me feel like you guys aren't really as interesting in playing as I am. Is this the case? I don't want to feel like I'm forcing you guys to be here..."
I know this sounds mushy and silly, but tell them how YOU feel. They can't dispute your feelings. This is usually the best way to start an honest discussion (and is the type of counseling you would get for relationships, lol, but it does work.) On the flip side, telling a person what they are thinking, will just start an argument.
Great advice BTW.
Looking for some advice from fellow DMs on lazy players.
What do you all do, or have you done, to mitigate or prevent players being lazy and not having their characters ready before session? I have players coming into a session and spending the first hour or three making, updating, or leveling their character. It happens a lot, sadly, for various reasons, but is worst when we start a new adventure, level up, or have a new character come in. last time we arrived at 4pm and didn't start play 'til 8:30, then ended at 10.
Tell them, that the game will start at whatever time, and they will use the character as it is at that time.
MechE: My use of the word "confrontational" was a lazy error of me not wanting to fully explain my intent and hoping a related word would suffice. I understand the differences.
Tinalles: I don't even begin to have the time to do this, sadly. I'm just as busy as they are. Busier, since I DM in addition to all the regular stuff.
MattR1968: Sadly, email doesn't work too well. It does for some people, for the the players that are the issue, they will email their character a day before start time. I will then find out that there are so many errors on their character sheet from leveling that it appears they don't have access to the PRD and/or do not know how to level. SO I send their sheet back with a list of correction requests. A few weeks later it comes back. And here's the kicker. One, MAYBE, of the ten things I mentioned are fixed. The other 9 weren't even addressed. And somehow, by some anti-miracle, there are new errors where they decided they wanted something done differently.
And again, it's not that they're busy. Just that they're lazy. And that's what I don't know how to correct. I hate this feeling, like I'm an adult trying to behaviorally correct a child. -_-
In the games that I run, I use hero points, but I don't give them out automatically.
That way, whenever there's something I need the players to do away from the gaming table, I tell them that it's worth a hero point or two to get it done.
Typically, I only use this method to get the players to read hand-outs that I have printed out that contain background information they'll need (i.e. you're heading into a foreign country next session. Here's a sheet containing what your characters know about the area).
I run my games on a slow progression of leveling up, so the players are pretty eager to hit that next level by the time it comes around.
Simply tell them they cannot level their character after the session starts. If they do, their level does not apply until next session. Give ways for players to contact others or you if they need help.
MechE: My use of the word "confrontational" was a lazy error of me not wanting to fully explain my intent and hoping a related word would suffice. I understand the differences.
I wasn't certain which way you meant it, so I felt it pertinent to make the distinction. If not for you, then for any others reading this thread.
And again, it's not that they're busy. Just that they're lazy. And that's what I don't know how to correct. I hate this feeling, like I'm an adult trying to behaviorally correct a child. -_-
I completely understand your frustration. I would advise you to re-read my above post. You are expressing to us the feelings that are leaving you dissatisfied and frustrated - this is good, you just have to express this to your players and begin an open conversation around that.
I'd suggest hijacking your next session as a self/group intervention. Instead of being ready to game, have pizza (or whatever your groups generic food of choice is) ready to go. Spend a few hours discussing with your friends whether they want to continue playing Pathfinder or if they'd rather just come to your place (or your friend's place) every week (or two) and eat pizza and have dude (or dude + chic) time. It may be that your friends just want to hang out, and if that's the case, just hang with them. You can try to find another group to game with the next day. (In that second case, I strongly recommend Meetup - It is great for finding gaming groups!)
Last session the player that had to use his old character was pretty upset about it, but that anger was directed primarily at me. He wasn't contrite about his failure to perform or produce a sheet; he just seemed mad that I wasn't letting him use his higher level.
From what you've told us, I'm actually not all that surprised by his reaction in that particular instance. The issue is that your players became accustomed to having the first couple of hours (at least) of the session being set aside for leveling up, general talk, and whatnot. So he came to the game assuming that he would still have those couple of hours to do this. The key will be to see what happens the next time.
You are correct though that the important thing is simply to talk to them all about it. It could be that they love playing and even love leveling up, etc., but that they simply also really enjoy the time spent together so they are getting the best of both worlds.
Another possible issue could be whether they are concerned about leveling up individually. I've known players who have always wanted to discuss how their characters should progress with the rest of the group. Some of it has to do with not knowing the ruleset well enough to feel comfortable, while some of it has to do with not wanting to let the group down by taking options that do not mesh as well with the rest of the group. That alone could be a reason that they do not get the leveling done between sessions. Bottom line though is you have a right to have fun just like they do. Could be they simply do not realize what effect this has had on you, and how you feel as though you are wasting a lot of time.
Communication is key. In this situation I would contact each player in whatever way is best for that person (phone, email, text, carrier pigeon) and say, if I dont have your character updated and correct by X time. You play a level down that session. This includes any corrections they have to make after you look it over, so inform them they need to get it to you early enough for you to look it over, and give it back to them for corrections in time for X. New characters, or new players follow the same lines, possibly with an earlier deadline. If they arent able to make it on their own see if you can schedule some time, either face to face or like a google hangout to go over it with them (one on one scheduling should be easier then the whole group). But either way set a deadline and then stick to it. You dont have to stop them from playing (so long as its not a new character) but if its not ready ahead of time, they dont get to level up until the next session, period.
Communication is key. In this situation I would contact each player in whatever way is best for that person (phone, email, text, carrier pigeon) and say, if I dont have your character updated and correct by X time. You play a level down that session. This includes any corrections they have to make after you look it over, so inform them they need to get it to you early enough for you to look it over, and give it back to them for corrections in time for X. New characters, or new players follow the same lines, possibly with an earlier deadline. If they arent able to make it on their own see if you can schedule some time, either face to face or like a google hangout to go over it with them (one on one scheduling should be easier then the whole group). But either way set a deadline and then stick to it. You dont have to stop them from playing (so long as its not a new character) but if its not ready ahead of time, they dont get to level up until the next session, period.
While I would normally be the first to say "set fair and clear expectations for your players and hold them firmly", I want to reiterate that this may be a case where your friends are more interested in just hanging out than they are playing Pathfinder. (I read that as being a possible scenario.) Since that can't be eliminated (at least not from my perspective, maybe the OP knows more), I would STRONGLY recommend having an open and honest talk with your players about what they want, as I mentioned above a few times.
Looking for some advice from fellow DMs on lazy players.
What do you all do, or have you done, to mitigate or prevent players being lazy and not having their characters ready before session? I have players coming into a session and spending the first hour or three making, updating, or leveling their character. It happens a lot, sadly, for various reasons, but is worst when we start a new adventure, level up, or have a new character come in. last time we arrived at 4pm and didn't start play 'til 8:30, then ended at 10.
i got into the same problem once
my solution:1. anyone that didnt finish his lvlup didnt level up between sessions and has to wait for the next one (and if he hasnt finished by then he will wait one more)
2. if we are not able to start playing 30-45 minutes after the time we planned on beginning, ill go to the next store, pick up a bottle of rum and coke and won't play a single second that day
3. if part 2 happens more then once in 10 sessions im not GMing for that group any longer
in my case it endet in part 3, startet planning a new campaign, got different players, startet over
its not really worth putting up with this crap for long, if your effective playtime is 50% beeing annoyed because you can't play, 40% play and 10% being annoyed because you only got 40% play that day, why not spend 100% having fun with your friends without playing?
I'd suggest hijacking your next session as a self/group intervention. Instead of being ready to game, have pizza (or whatever your groups generic food of choice is) ready to go. Spend a few hours discussing with your friends whether they want to continue playing Pathfinder or if they'd rather just come to your place (or your friend's place) every week (or two) and eat pizza and have dude (or dude + chic) time. It may be that your friends just want to hang out, and if that's the case, just hang with them. You can try to find another group to game with the next day. (In that second case, I strongly recommend Meetup - It is great for finding gaming groups!)
I was thinking about doing this. We've done it a few times before, and things usually get better for a week or two, then return to normal, so I'm not sure what effect it would really have.
As for Meetup, and similar sites, I've tried them but there really aren't other games in my area. I just live in a crappy town, I guess.
If they are taking the time to actually level the character they aren't completely hopeless, but again: spare the rod spoil the player.If you do the run-through of their sheet require them to send you the corrected version before game time. If it isn't sent, they keep the old version. They'll learn to do the corrections right the first time and do it earlier in the week so it gets done on time and you aren't wasting session time.
This is basically what I've been doing so far, and it's yet to return that result. : \
From what you've told us, I'm actually not all that surprised by his reaction in that particular instance. The issue is that your players became accustomed to having the first couple of hours (at least) of the session being set aside for leveling up, general talk, and whatnot. So he came to the game assuming that he would still have those couple of hours to do this. The key will be to see what happens the next time.
Good point. We'll see next session, I guess. Not looking good. I told this player on Monday that I was extremely busy this weekend due to Valentine's Day and that he should get me his sheet by Thursday. It's Wednesday, and he's yet to even acknowledge that email.
Bottom line though is you have a right to have fun just like they do. Could be they simply do not realize what effect this has had on you, and how you feel as though you are wasting a lot of time.
They know. I talk to them about it quite a bit, actually. We've discussed it as a group, and I've talked to people about it individually. That's why I'm starting to come to the conclusion that they (some of them) just don't care.
While I would normally be the first to say "set fair and clear expectations for your players and hold them firmly", I want to reiterate that this may be a case where your friends are more interested in just hanging out than they are playing Pathfinder.
This is quite possible, for the one or two players, though not for the majority of the group. We have 7 players total (though 2 don't play in one game and 1 doesn't play in the other, and that's not counting me), and only a few of them do the things I've outlined.
Problem is, I, quite frankly, am not interested in "just hanging out." Despite the protestations of the people claiming they don't have time to work on their characters, I probably have just as little, or less, time than them, and want to spend my one free day a week playing D&D, not just hanging out. So this option really boils down to asking them to leave the group.
i got into the same problem once
my solution:I have seriously considered this. I've nearly walked out quite a few times. But what it comes down to is that there ARE people in the group that want to play and do their stuff on time. I have a hard time punishing them for the actions of the few others that are irresponsible.
I feel I should state that the outlined situation was abnormally long, even for us. That sort of excess doesn't usually happen, at least not to that degree.
Oh, and for the person that urged that I make sure I give them enough warning (can't find the post), I tell them as the session is ending what is expected for next session, and remind them once or twice during the week.
Communication is key. In this situation I would contact each player in whatever way is best for that person (phone, email, text, carrier pigeon) and say, if I dont have your character updated and correct by X time. You play a level down that session. This includes any corrections they have to make after you look it over, so inform them they need to get it to you early enough for you to look it over, and give it back to them for corrections in time for X. New characters, or new players follow the same lines, possibly with an earlier deadline. If they arent able to make it on their own see if you can schedule some time, either face to face or like a google hangout to go over it with them (one on one scheduling should be easier then the whole group). But either way set a deadline and then stick to it. You dont have to stop them from playing (so long as its not a new character) but if its not ready ahead of time, they dont get to level up until the next session, period.While I would normally be the first to say "set fair and clear expectations for your players and hold them firmly", I want to reiterate that this may be a case where your friends are more interested in just hanging out than they are playing Pathfinder. (I read that as being a possible scenario.) Since that can't be eliminated (at least not from my perspective, maybe the OP knows more), I would STRONGLY recommend having an open and honest talk with your players about what they want, as I mentioned above a few times.
I completely agree, but assuming that people still wish to play the game, and the op also decides he wants to continue, this is among the better ways to go forward. It would limit disruption and reinforce the behavior the op wants (level up and character creation work being done ahead of time).
Looking for some advice from fellow DMs on lazy players.
What do you all do, or have you done, to mitigate or prevent players being lazy and not having their characters ready before session? I have players coming into a session and spending the first hour or three making, updating, or leveling their character. It happens a lot, sadly, for various reasons, but is worst when we start a new adventure, level up, or have a new character come in. last time we arrived at 4pm and didn't start play 'til 8:30, then ended at 10.
Two words: subpar pregens. If they're not ready to play at start time, have some pregen characters ready to go, like Waldo the Wonder Wizard or some such. Then make fun of them for the whole session.
One of two things will happen: they'll take the hint and be ready next time, or they'll quit. Win, win.
Looking for some advice from fellow DMs on lazy players.
What do you all do, or have you done, to mitigate or prevent players being lazy and not having their characters ready before session? I have players coming into a session and spending the first hour or three making, updating, or leveling their character. It happens a lot, sadly, for various reasons, but is worst when we start a new adventure, level up, or have a new character come in. last time we arrived at 4pm and didn't start play 'til 8:30, then ended at 10.
That is ridiculous. When I have DM'd my players usually had all character stuff, that could be done without the DM, taken care of. I would be patient for about 30 minutes to an hour after we sat down around the table for anyone who needed some help or didn't find time to do this on their own time. After that, as soon as the majority of the party was ready to play, the game would start. If there were one or two stragglers, the game would go on without them and they could join in when their character was ready. For my party this was generally not an issue but it may not work for all parties. It did encourage players to be ready, or close to it, when they arrived for a game.
As an update, I just spent 40 minutes (gmail timed me) fixing a player's sheet for him, after he sent it back...with only one change of the six I requested actually fixed. That change was done incorrectly.
I decided to just do it for him because I'm not sure he's ever going to be able to do it himself. I hate doing that, because it teaches him to be lazy, but what else can I do? :(
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Wow that's bad. I've only gone some place to do PFS once, but that happened there. not sure how much time the guy spent though. Either way, it sucks to wait.
Primus Agnarok
Yeah, unfortunately this has become a recurring theme. As a player, leveling up is, like, my favorite thing EVER, so having players come to a game and not have even started leveling their character makes my mind completely fail.
Hm yeah who doesnt like leveling up the most?
Unless you're a gunslinger and you found this;
+2 Double-Barreled Pistol.. Not much buuuut
Shocking Burst, Corrosive Burst, and the Speed ability. And thundering. So on crits it does its damage plus 3d10 shock, 3d10 Acid, 3d8 sonic, and deafens, in addition to 1d6 acid and electricity(on normal hits and crits). Also intelligent of course, can cast resurrect, grow limbs and walk, and is very stealthy. Its purpose also happens to be to kill everything except the wielder.
Frickin Amazing. And of course, you could have another one in your other hand :P Besides the fact that it costs 200k gold and you will NEVER EVER find this or a DM that will let you use it.(Maybe so on the last part, but..)
Primus
As an update, I just spent 40 minutes (gmail timed me) fixing a player's sheet for him, after he sent it back...with only one change of the six I requested actually fixed. That change was done incorrectly.
I decided to just do it for him because I'm not sure he's ever going to be able to do it himself. I hate doing that, because it teaches him to be lazy, but what else can I do? :(
\
How old are your players lol? 14? Jesus. The only time a GM ever asks to see my character sheet is for little stuff, like a save total so he can roll for scrying or some such. I don't think I've ever had a GM have me send him my character sheet to proof read. I'm an adult, I've got it thanks lol.
Sorry, not trying to be a dick. I just find it comical.