Hi Guys,
We just won Black Fang and the scenario reward was to draw a boon card (she chose spell). She then drew a Cure Spell. Can she keep it for the next game even though she has no divine skill? Seems like she can?
May not be the wisest strategy but we're just curious.
She's only discarding basic spells so we don't think it's necessarily a bad move to keep Cure if it's permitted by the rules.
Thanks in advance,
Ben
Cheez wrote: Hi Guys,
We just won Black Fang and the scenario reward was to draw a boon card (she chose spell). She then drew a Cure Spell. Can she keep it for the next game even though she has no divine skill? Seems like she can?
May not be the wisest strategy but we're just curious.
She's only discarding basic spells so we don't think it's necessarily a bad move to keep Cure if it's permitted by the rules.
Thanks in advance,
Ben
Seoni can keep the spell in her deck for the next game, but she'll have to banish it once it gets used since she doesn't have the divine skill.
Excellent. That's sorta what we thought. Appreciate the assist. We're gonna keep the Cure in her hand for the next game since health is so critical for her.
Well, yes - but don't forget that casting the spell (and banishing it) will reduce your deck size by one so the benefit of the cure is going to be less for her.
Also she can give it to someone with the Divine skill.
I didn't think this was the case. As the card states that if you don't have the divine trait, it has to be banished. I read this from two perspectives.
2) From the perspective of what it says on the card: It clearly says that if you don't have the divine trait the card has to be banished. It shouldn't matter when you acquire it... as soon as it enters Seoni's deck it vanishes.
2) From the DM perspective: A sorceress in most fantasy settings doesn't call power from a deity or divine power and as such spells that are fueled by such energies cannot be used by that class.
antowas wrote: I didn't think this was the case. As the card states that if you don't have the divine trait, it has to be banished. I read this from two perspectives.
2) From the perspective of what it says on the card: It clearly says that if you don't have the divine trait the card has to be banished. It shouldn't matter when you acquire it... as soon as it enters Seoni's deck it vanishes.
2) From the DM perspective: A sorceress in most fantasy settings doesn't call power from a deity or divine power and as such spells that are fueled by such energies cannot be used by that class.
From what I have read in both the rules and the FAQ it seems like the concept would be a Spell can either be used as part of the spell book / spell source if you have the matching skill, or akin to a scroll if you don't. This also makes sense that a character can then pick it up and give to another player to add to their Spell Book / Spell source for later use like picking up any other boon.
While that makes sense from the perspective of a Pen and paper game, wherein a fighter acquires a scroll of fireball and hands it to the wizard, I didn't think pathfinder divine casters worked out of spell books. Their spells come as a gift from their deity as a result of their pious nature, so far as I am aware.
This also doesn't address the text that says she has to banish it because she doesn't have the Divine skill. In the same way that if the scenario reward were armor, she would not be able to keep that in her deck by the very nature of her character deck limitations. Cards only do what they say they do and this card says if you don't have the divine trait, it gets banished, which means (by my interpretation) that if Seoni acquires it in any way, she doesn't even get the chance to trade it. It immediately goes back in the box. I can't be presented as loot because it is gone. And it is gone because that's what the card says, regardless of what the rules say. Cards supersede the rules as presented by the manual unless an errata is published. That's on page 1 of the manual.
Understand that I don't present these arguments for the sake of argument. I specifically excluded Cure from my Seoni's deck because it was my understanding that not only can she not use it, she can never have it. Ever. Not even to trade at the end of the scenario.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
If it helps, think of each character as having the USe Magic Device skill. In the RPG, if you make the roll you can cast the scroll regardless if you have Arcane or Divine ability. Doing so also consumes the scroll.
Whether it makes sense to you or not, it has already been clarified that if a character acquires any boon, they are able to use it during the game it is found. After the game, if the card type is on their deck list, the card can be added to the deck regardless if it is an ideal fit. In either case, you could still share the boon with a companion either in game or post game when the decks are being rebuilt.
Lastly, the banish portion of the card is only invoked when you use the power to activate the card. Acquiring a card does not activate the card's power section.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Here is the relevant FAQ link.
Fair enough. I'll make sure my play group is aware.
This is something that I'll never, ever understand as it gets repeatedly brought up.
There are tons and tons of cards in the base game plus Burnt Offerings that start with the words "Banish this card...". Then, you come to the spells that specifically put that phrase AFTER you have actually played the card. So, a ton of cards state that in order to use the card you have to Banish it, and somehow that should apply to the spells despite that wording being in a totally different spot? Read the card from top to bottom! In every game, punctuation and paragraph breaks matter! It's just not that complex to grasp.
I mean if they'd put in a card that said:
"Discard this card to automatically pass a Combat check."
"If you aren't Valeros, Banish this card instead."
Would everyone be on here and BGG freaking out that you couldn't use that card unless you were Valeros? It's the exact same concept.
Kysmartman, you were reversed the other day on a ruling, so we all make mistakes. I don't see how it helps to take those of us who misunderstand to task. It doesn't help. Why not just bask in your brilliance and leave us alone?
1970Zombie wrote: Lastly, the banish portion of the card is only invoked when you use the power to activate the card. Acquiring a card does not activate the card's power section. Except the burglar of course... if you fail the check to acquire him then you DO activate his power and he steals something from you.
This is just typical of one of the main issues with the game. People are reading more into a card then they should. They are assuming more then what the card or the rule intends. Ideally this should have been cleared up in play testing and then an example would have been put in the rule book. Because of that we have the FAQ.
In this particular case, I don't think it's an unreasonable misreading of the cards. The card says "If you don't have Xyz skill, banish this card". At least one card triggers the powers section when you acquire it (Burglar) so there's no clear reason why you wouldn't assume that this triggers for spells. Which is why this question crops up. A lot.
Buglar clearly states that how he works differently from other boons. So applying his specific ability to other cards is really in the "assuming more than written" department.
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