Mythic Paths - Amazing Combinations

[Buri]

Apologies if this topic has already been explored in isolation. I was looking at the archmage path as I may be playing WotR soon and noticed Flexible School.

Flexible School (Ex):

Select one wizard arcane school that is not your arcane school. You gain powers from that arcane school, treating your tier as your wizard level for the purposes of these powers. Once you have chosen the arcane school, it cannot be changed. You cannot select an arcane school that is one of your opposition schools. You must have the arcane school class feature to select this ability. You can choose this ability up to three times, each time selecting another arcane school other than your own.

Say you start with the Universalist school. With this take Foresight for 3+int/day d20 replacements for a round AND metamagic mastery or go Divination and act in every surprise round. There's no reason why you can't take both by taking Flexible School twice. Other combinations with Foresight was the Banishment or Enchantment schools.

For the mythic feats there is Dual Path.

Dual Path:

Benefit: Select a mythic path other than the path you selected at your moment of ascension. You gain that path's 1st-tier ability (either archmage arcana, champion's strike, divine surge, guardian's call, marshal's order, or trickster attack). Each time you gain a path ability, you can select that path ability from either path's list or the list of universal path abilities.

Again, assuming wizard, take the Guardian's Sudden Block for Guardian's Call.

Sudden Block (Su):

As an immediate action, you can expend one use of mythic power to hinder a melee attack made against you or an adjacent ally. Add your tier to your AC or the ally's AC against this attack. The creature making the attack must make two attack rolls and take the lower result. Once the attack is resolved, you or your ally (your choice) can make one melee attack against the creature. The damage from this attack bypasses all damage reduction.

Now, say you take Dodge (Mythic) and Arcane Armor Training (Mythic).

Dodge (Mythic):

The bonus to AC from Dodge increases by 1. As an immediate action, you can expend one use of mythic power to grant yourself an additional +10 dodge bonus to AC against one attack.

Arcane Armor Training (Mythic):

You don't have to spend a swift action to gain the reduction to arcane spell failure chance from Arcane Armor Training. Furthermore, if you're wearing light armor, reduce your arcane spell failure chance by 20%.

You can create a wizard who can exist almost perfectly fine in melee for short durations and gain full advantage of special armor abilities with no spell failure chance. You can do an exfiltration, get in a circumstantial hit if you have the right buffs and the opportunity presents itself, etc. Having spent 3 of 5 mythic feats on flexibility you can spend your other two on Extra Path Ability to catch back up on taking Flexible School and finish out any other ability chains you had planned or take other mythic feats.

What nifty combinations have you noticed?

[Liam Warner]

Forget arcane armour training take the component caster one (can't remember the name) but it let's you just ignore one component when casting in full plate ignore somatic and bang no spell failure.

[Dracovar]

Dual Path is a real winner. But don't take Guardian. Take the Trickster because...

PATH DABBLING.

This opens up ALL the mythic path abilities to you, I think. I consider Dual Path/Path Dabbling pretty much THE must have feat/ability combo.

In some cases, there is simply no other better route to take than the Trickster because of the power of path dabbling.

Unless I'm misreading/misconstruing something.

[Tels]

Dracovar wrote:

Dual Path is a real winner. But don't take Guardian. Take the Trickster because...

PATH DABBLING.

This opens up ALL the mythic path abilities to you, I think. I consider Dual Path/Path Dabbling pretty much THE must have feat/ability combo.

In some cases, there is simply no other better route to take than the Trickster because of the power of path dabbling.

Unless I'm misreading/misconstruing something.

A path ability can only be selected once unless it contains language that says otherwise. Path Dabbling has no such language, and as such, can't be selected more than once.

[williamoak]

I'm having fun with a magus (champion/archmage). In my case, it makes armor simpler.

[Buri]

Tels wrote:

A path ability can only be selected once unless it contains language that says otherwise. Path Dabbling has no such language, and as such, can't be selected more than once.

Where is this stated? I certainly see abilities that say they can be selected multiple times so it can be inferred, but I don't see it stated.

[Ravingdork]

Buri wrote:

Tels wrote:

A path ability can only be selected once unless it contains language that says otherwise. Path Dabbling has no such language, and as such, can't be selected more than once.

Where is this stated? I certainly see abilities that say they can be selected multiple times so it can be inferred, but I don't see it stated.

It doesn't really need to be stated, it's a general rule.

Nevertheless, that grants you options from THREE different paths, which is pretty incredible by itself.

I've used it to great effect.

[Buri]

So, then, how does one become aware of these general rules? Seriously, I sincerely want a list. For most things like feats it's common sense as they provide bonuses and bonuses from the same source don't stack. That's a written rule. However, in the case of a "pick one thing from another mythic path; you have that thing" ability it makes zero sense. I see the abilities with notations on how many times they can be selected to either limit the maximum number of times they can be taken or to describe different effects when you take them multiple times. But, nothing says you can't take them multiple times.

[Tels]

Buri wrote:

So, then, how does one become aware of these general rules? Seriously, I sincerely want a list. For most things like feats it's common sense as they provide bonuses and bonuses from the same source don't stack. That's a written rule. However, in the case of a "pick one thing from another mythic path; you have that thing" ability it makes zero sense. I see the abilities with notations on how many times they can be selected to either limit the maximum number of times they can be taken or to describe different effects when you take them multiple times. But, nothing says you can't take them multiple times.

Most things in the game can be selected only once. Rage Powers, Spells, Feats, Rogue Talents, etc. they can be selected only once unless otherwise noted.

For the Path Abilities, look under 'Path Ability' for every Mythic Path.

Path Ability wrote:

At 1st tier and every tier thereafter, select one new path ability from the trickster path abilities lists or from the universal path abilities lists. Once you select an ability, it can't be changed. Unless otherwise noted, each ability can be selected only once. Some abilities have requirements, such as a class ability or minimum mythic tier, that you must meet before you select them.

Every path has the exact same wording, excepting they have their path name (Champion, Archmage, Guardian etc) substituted for Trickster.

[Buri]

Holy ****. I swear I looked for something like that. Boo

[Dracovar]

Nice catch, Tels and Ravingdork.

Given that James Jacobs posted a build himself with multiple Path Dabblings (a quick search for "path dabbling" will find it), I consider myself in good company. :-)

However, later posts he backtracked on that and confirmed, Path Dabbling is as you state - you can only do it once.

So, maybe not an "amazing" combo but certainly something worth considering when crafting a mythic build.

[Liam Warner]

I'll stick with my Ranger 1, Arcanist 9 eldritch knight 10 dual pathed champion/archmage build thanks. Not the most powerful (particularly since I pick the things I want like sleepless, don't need to eat/drink/breathe, sanctum) but I like it.

[Buri]

That's how I build characters. I like diversity of ability rather than necessarily going after the most optimal combinations.

[Liam Warner]

Buri wrote:

That's how I build characters. I like diversity of ability rather than necessarily going after the most optimal combinations.

Nice to know I'm not the only one who takes a choice because it fits a concept. This particular build took weapon and mythic weapon finesse plus an aldori dueling sword because while she's very agile she's not that much stronger than an average girl (12 str improved through adventuring to 13 for power attack). I'm also hoping for a free feat to take dragon style martial arts (already got improved unarmed) to represent some martial arts training although she never leaner the higher "ki based techniques".

[Tels]

Buri wrote:

That's how I build characters. I like diversity of ability rather than necessarily going after the most optimal combinations.

Yeah, I just got my first Mythic Tier ever in Legacy of Fire. My Monk uses acrobatics and jumps around like crazy all the time. I saw the Seven League Leap ability for the Champion and was like, "MUST HAVE!!!"

Seven League Leap:

Your leap is so mighty that you defy gravity. Add your tier to Acrobatics checks made to jump. The distance you can jump in a round is not limited by your movement speed. If you are carrying no more than a light load, you can expend one use of mythic power to make a powerful jump that lets you sail through the air. In order to use this ability, you must be able to run in a straight line for 1 minute. Any obstacles or impediments that prevent you from completing this sprint uninterrupted prevent you from being able to use this ability, though the expenditure of mythic power is not wasted. At the end of your 1-minute sprint, you attempt an Acrobatics check and leap a distance up to half the check's result in miles, rounded down to the nearest mile (for example, an Acrobatics check result of 29 would allow you to jump 14 miles). This trip takes 1 round per mile, and you reach a maximum height at the apex of your arc equal to half the distance traveled. You do not take falling damage from using this ability. You must have a clear arc of travel to complete this jump; if you strike an obstacle mid-jump, you and the obstacle each take a number of points of damage equal to 1d8 × the number of miles you have left to travel. If this damage destroys the obstacle, you continue your jump; otherwise, your jump comes to an end and you fall, taking falling damage as appropriate. You cannot aim this leap accurately, and always land 50 to 5,000 feet (5d%) from your intended destination.

Then I was like... how to optimize...

I'm thinking, Impossible Speed (will net you an eventual +130 to your land speed), Display of Dexterity, Rod of Balance, and my Monk abilities will all add together for a stupid amount of Jumping.

Altogether, when my Monk hits 20th level (as indicated by the GM we will reach 20th with his add ons), he'll be able to jump extremely far when he wants to. Lets total it up.

20 ranks +13 (Dex) +20 (Monk +20 (Ki) +20 (Display of Dex) +10 (Rod of Balance) +10 (Mythic Tier from Seven League Leap) +6 (Skill Focus) and here is the real kicker +76 (fast movement) = 195

If you read the Acrobatics skill, then you'll see that if you have a land speed faster than 30 ft, for every 10 feet you are faster, you gain a +4 bonus to jump. Monks gain a +60 enhancement bonus, and Impossible Speed nets another 130 ft. bonus for a total of 190 or 19 increments of +4. Also, of note, out of the above, only the Rod of Balance and Display of Dex have a bonus type (Rod is Competence and Display is Circumstance) so it all stacks.

Assuming a result of 10 on the d20, my Monk will jump 102 miles with a maximum height of 51 miles in the air. It will take me 102 rounds (10 minutes 20 seconds) to travel this distance. Who needs teleport? It's funny to note, that the United States designates any one who travels 50 mile up off the surface of the earth as an Astronaut.

Absolutely 0 combat advantage, but it's frickin awesome none-the-less.

[archmagi1]

Even better, Mythic Haste (3rd Tier Augment) will be better than your monk Enhancement bonus, giving you another +4 and the ability to walk on water. Also, if you took the Feat that gives the +2 to Acrobatics and Fly, there is another +4 on the check after 10 ranks.

[gustavo iglesias]

Tels wrote:

Absolutely 0 combat advantage, but it's frickin awesome none-the-less.

[Dracovar]

Tels wrote:

Buri wrote:

That's how I build characters. I like diversity of ability rather than necessarily going after the most optimal combinations.

Yeah, I just got my first Mythic Tier ever in Legacy of Fire. My Monk uses acrobatics and jumps around like crazy all the time. I saw the Seven League Leap ability for the Champion and was like, "MUST HAVE!!!"

** spoiler omitted **

Then I was like... how to optimize...

I'm thinking, Impossible Speed (will net you an eventual +130 to your land speed), Display of Dexterity,...

I think if you get a vertical 51 miles up during your jump, we'd be seeing a corpse hitting the ground 102 miles away. Unless you had some magical help to prevent freezing/baking/suffocation on your trip into the mesosphere.

Assuming Golarion's atmosphere is anything like Earth's, of course ;-)

[Buri]

Tels wrote:

Absolutely 0 combat advantage, but it's frickin awesome none-the-less.

This is what I'm talking about!

[Buri]

Dracovar wrote:

I think if you get a vertical 51 miles up during your jump, we'd be seeing a corpse hitting the ground 102 miles away. Unless you had some magical help to prevent freezing/baking/suffocation on your trip into the mesosphere.

Assuming Golarion's atmosphere is anything like Earth's, of course ;-)

At level 20, 20d6 damage is nothing to most any character let alone one with mythic tiers.

[Tels]

Buri wrote:

Dracovar wrote:

I think if you get a vertical 51 miles up during your jump, we'd be seeing a corpse hitting the ground 102 miles away. Unless you had some magical help to prevent freezing/baking/suffocation on your trip into the mesosphere.

Assuming Golarion's atmosphere is anything like Earth's, of course ;-)

At level 20, 20d6 damage is nothing to most any character let alone one with mythic tiers.

To be fair, he mentioned freezing/baking/suffocation, which isn't too much of an issue. I'm not too concerned about cold/fire damage as it would be kind of unfair for a GM that a Mythic character expending Mythic Power to use a Mythic ability kills himself doing it (because physics) when the character is defying the laws of Physics even without using his Mythic powers or abilities. Think about the fact that a Monk is able to use the momentum of a run to amplify his jump... while standing still.

As for suffocating? I don't think it's an issue as you can hold your breath for a number of rounds equal to double your con score normally. Also, there are many magical items that can let you breathe in space or similar areas.

Plus, there's Mythic Sustenance.

Mythic Sustenance:

Your mythic power is enough to sustain you. You no longer need to eat, drink, or breathe to live. You're immune to inhaled poisons and any spell or effect that requires breathing, though you are still affected by any food or drink you intake.

I find it very appropriate for the Master of a martial arts school (my Monk started a school to teach his own brand of martial arts) to be able to never need to eat, drink or breathe.

[Edit] Also, I have every intention of, at some point, saying, "I must go, my people need me!" and then running off and leaping away.

[Cubic Prism]

Tels wrote:

Buri wrote:

That's how I build characters. I like diversity of ability rather than necessarily going after the most optimal combinations.

Yeah, I just got my first Mythic Tier ever in Legacy of Fire. My Monk uses acrobatics and jumps around like crazy all the time. I saw the Seven League Leap ability for the Champion and was like, "MUST HAVE!!!"

** spoiler omitted **

Then I was like... how to optimize...

I'm thinking, Impossible Speed (will net you an eventual +130 to your land speed), Display of Dexterity,...

If you want a laugh, do the math and see how fast you're traveling during the jump. I think you will find it amusing. For more laughs, calc. the maximum possible result of acrobatics + 7 league leap.

[Tels]

Cubic Prism wrote:

If you want a laugh, do the math and see how fast you're traveling during the jump. I think you will find it amusing. For more laughs, calc. the maximum possible result of acrobatics + 7 league leap.

Well, something I didn't take into account (because I'm not sure if it should apply) is one of the other effects the Rod of Balance has on jumps.

Rod of Balance wrote:

This short, slender rod appears to be crafted from solid iron, though it is incredibly light.

In this shortened form, the rod has no powers. However, when the wielder pushes a small button on one end of the rod (a move action), the rod springs open to a 5-foot length, and its powers become available for use.

Once extended, the rod possesses several powers that add to the wielder's acrobatic abilities . The wielder of the rod receives a +10 competence bonus on all Acrobatics checks involving long jumps and high jumps; additionally, the wielder covers double the normal distance for a jump when making an Acrobatics check. The individual holding the rod also gain a +4 dodge bonus to AC when fighting defensively instead of the usual +2 bonus. Also, while using this item, the user of the rod cannot be knocked prone, and takes only half damage from falling. A rod of balance emits a faint aura of the abjuration and transmutation schools.

Since I'm already using the rod to gain a +10 competence bonus on all acrobatics check (also the +2 bonus to AC since I use Crane Style pre-nerf), then one might say that the distance I jumped using Seven League Leap is also doubled. Also, something that is unclear is whether or not full on running counts as increased speed when it comes to a jump. Acrobatics states that all you need is 10 ft of movement for a 'running start' where as when you use the run action, your move at 4x your normal speed. Since Seven League Leap requires a running for 1 minute (and even calls it a sprint at one point) this is a factor, but it's not one I will worry about as the numbers are already kind of crazy.

@archmagi1: I don't want to use Mythic Haste as that requires someone else to also be expending resources to achieve (which I don't want).

Further Jumping Shenanigans:

I would say the maximum possible Acrobatics check one could achieve without other characters expending their resources, or dipping, would be a Human Monk that used all 10 of their character feats to select the Fleet feat which nets them an additional +50 move speed. They use the human bonus feat to select either Skill Focus (Acrobatics) or the Acrobatic Feat. You can use one of your Mythic Feats to select a non-Mythic Feat as a bonus feat, so I can select Acrobatics, then I can select Mythic Acrobatics. Also, I forgot about the 5 ability score increments that occur as you increase tiers.

So, assuming a Human Monk with a starting Dexterity of 20 that uses his level increases, magic items (belt and tome) and Mythic ability increase to max his Dex, he's going to have a Dexterity score of +46 (+18 modifier). I actually messed up in my previous post as Impossible Speed + Monk speed of 90 ft is 220, not 190; for this Monk, his speed is 30 (base) + 60 (enhancement) + 50 (Fleet feat) + 30 (Impossible Speed) + 100 (spending a Mythic point on Impossible Speed) = 270 ft. (~30 mph/~50 kmph) and this is just his normal movement. If he runs (x4 speed) he's basically sprinting at 120 miles an hour.

20 ranks + 18 (Dex) + 20 (Monk) + 20 (Display) + 20 (Ki) + 10 (Rod) + 10 (Tier) + 8 (Mythic Acrobatics) + 6 (Skill Focus) + 96 (increased speed) = 228

So on a natural 20 we get a result of 248. Normally, we'd halve this result for the distance in miles traveled, but if the Rod of Balance doubles the distance checked, we just use the check result as the number of miles traveled. Now this guy is jumping a distance of 248 miles with a maximum height of 124 miles in the air (suck on that Felix Baumgartner!) over a period of 248 rounds or 24.8 minutes.

Now, I used a Speed Calculator for my speed, entering the distance as 248 miles and the time as 24 minutes and 48 seconds (60 seconds * .8 = 48) and got a speed of 600 mph or 965.6064 kmph.

I need to find a way to bump that result by another ~200 mph so I can jump faster than sound.

I know I can bump this further by dipping Barbarian for fast movement (netting me a +3 increase in my acrobatics score as I lose a +1 bonus from Monk) and then a dip in Alchemist (netting another +1 loss in Monk, but a +7 bonus from buying another Alchemists Grand Mutagen which gives a +8 bonus to dexterity). I can also bump it by using a scroll of Undead Anatomy IV for another +8 size bonus to Dexterity and Mythic Haste for another +4 from increased speed, but the idea is already kind of ridiculous enough as it is.

If the increased speed from running also gives bonuses to jump checks, then this gets truly insane as Running would give a +420 bonus on the acrobatics check (I included the normal +96 in this) and would result in a distance of 572 miles traveled at a maximum height of 286 miles, over 572 rounds (28.6 minutes) and a speed of 1200 mph / 1931.2128 kmph

[Squeakmaan]

I suppose the only downside is that the faster your movement speed, the larger area free of obstacles you need to Run for a full minute. A character with a 30 ft movement speed will need 1200 feet to run before making the jump, with a 130 ft movement speed will need 5200, nearly a full mile.

[Cubic Prism]

Are you taking into account high jump from Monk and all the magic items that can modify jump (while stacking)? You should be able to break the sound barrier by a wide margin if I'm remembering correctly.

[Oserath]

You'll never go faster than 600 mph. You travel 1 mile per round, regardless of the check result. That's 10 miles per minute, which is 600 mph.

[Liam Warner]

I'm sorry to rain on your idea but I can't help picturing your monk panicking when two minutes into his epic leap across the inland sea he realizes he's going to hit a seagull or doing the cartoob style turn upside down and scramble wildly at the air as he's passed out of the range of gravity and is sailing off into space.

Although that would be very mythic I can see the tales passed down in martial arts schools everywhere of the master who's skills exceeded his ability to control and one day jumped ... And never came down as an object lesson in self control and you need to consider things before acting.

"Remember One Time Only my students his tale serves as a reminder to people everywhere that just because you can do something doesn't always mean you should." Wipes a tear from his eye "Truly one of the greatest lessons our order ever learnt came from him gather round as a tell you the tale of his jump."

[Corlindale]

Mythic opens up some interesting new ways for arcane casters to stack armor bonuses - something that isn't normally viable for them.

Enduring Armor is the easy choice - mage armor that eventually scales up to 13.

Augmented Mythic Fly on top of that is another potential +10 Dodge bonus to AC (and +10 to reflex saves).

Add in the Mythic Paragon feat and both bonuses increase by 2.

That's +27 AC just using Dodge and Armor bonuses. Of course you can't have Fly active all day, but extended it can still last a good amount of time. Extend Spell actually becomes quite a bit better as a feat in Mythic because Mythic Power uses are much more precious than spell slots in most cases, so the tradeoff when extending Mythic buffs is very nice.

Arcane shapeshifters also love mythic.

Shapeshifting Mastery + Mythic Arcane Strike together negate some of the main drawbacks of polymorphing.

Your bad BAB is boosted to full, and you won't be in critical need of Amulet of Mighty Fists since you can buff all of your natural weapons with an enchantment of your choice with a swift action. This includes Bane, which is hilariously powerful when you have the power to apply it spontaneously as needed.

Your AC can also benefit fully from the aforementioned spells and powers while you are shapeshifted - in addition to the natural armor you get from polymorphing in the first place.

If you need to cast spells while polymorphed you can take component freedom a few times - or just be a dragon :-)

[fel_horfrost]

Liam Warner wrote:

I'm sorry to rain on your idea but I can't help picturing your monk panicking when two minutes into his epic leap across the inland sea he realizes he's going to hit a seagull or doing the cartoob style turn upside down and scramble wildly at the air as he's passed out of the range of gravity and is sailing off into space.

Although that would be very mythic I can see the tales passed down in martial arts schools everywhere of the master who's skills exceeded his ability to control and one day jumped ... And never came down as an object lesson in self control and you need to consider things before acting.

"Remember One Time Only my students his tale serves as a reminder to people everywhere that just because you can do something doesn't always mean you should." Wipes a tear from his eye "Truly one of the greatest lessons our order ever learnt came from him gather round as a tell you the tale of his jump."

Maybe he needs some immovable rods for breaks lol.