Acrobatics rogue sneak attack


Rules Questions


So this might be a stupid question, but can a rogue use acrobatics in combat to get a new sneak attack against a target?
I am a new DM and have an experienced DM telling me that the rogue in the party can roll a acrobatics check to tumble around the target and get a new sneak attack against the target. He has said that the rogue does not have to be flanking the target to achieve this. Is this correct? I have been looking through the rules but can't find anything on it.

Sczarni

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That is incorrect.

Sounds like a houserule to give Rogues another way to deliver Sneak Attack.


Actually there are ways in which this would be doable, but your friend seems not to be giving you all the information.
Example - there's the scout rogue archetype that counts his attack as a sneak attack if he moves a certain distance that round. The acrobatics check might be part of that movement.
- or there may be someone else in combat with that target already and the acrobatics check is a way to get into that flanking position. In that case he doesn't need to flank the target..BEFORE the acrobatics check..but he will need to flank AFTER

..or he might be mistaking it with using the bluff skill in combat to feint, thus robbing the opponent of his dex bonus to ac on the next attack which is enough to get that sneak attack in

Sovereign Court

There are several ways for a rogue to gain sneak attack, but the main two are:

1) Enemy denied Dexterity bonus to AC. This happens (among others) when the enemy didn't see the attacker coming (Surprise, Stealth, Invisibility, Blind defender). It's the classical rogueish way to backstab. However, it's harder to do this round after round, because now the enemy's ready for you.

2) When flanking the enemy.

Most likely your friend was trying to use Acrobatics to move around the enemy without suffering attacks of opportunity (a legitimate use of Acrobatics), in order to flank an enemy (2) that he'd previously been sneak attacking through stealth/surprise (1).


There's a feat that allows this, but I can't remember it's name.


Hold on. Needs more informations.

OP, is your player using the Scroll Scoundrel archetype? Take a look at their "Elusive Gambit" ability.

Or, are they using the Scout archetype?

Either one, if you're not clear on the rules or your player isn't properly explaining what they're doing, could result in a situation similar to what you're describing.


Without more information the "more experienced" DM is incredibly incorrect. Acrobatics on its own allows for no such thing, though there may be some ability that incorporates an acrobatics check to allow it. But I am unaware of such.

To expand on what Lamontius said, if the player is playing a Scroll Scoundrel and is 6th level then Elusive Gambit would allow him to make a sneak attack if the enemy misses their attack of opportunity. However! If the rogue moves through an enemies threatened area and uses acrobatics to avoid the attack of opportunity he has avoided it. The attacker has not missed, and Elusive Gambit does not grant a sneak attack in this case.


Wow, thank you all for the information, I thought I was missing something or not understanding the rules. As for more info on the character, its a level 4 rogue with no special items, or abilities that would allow anything from basics. At first I thought that they were using Stealth to accomplish this (almost like the bluff on catching them off guard) but when I brought it up I was mocked for it and told he (the more experienced DM) knew what he was talking about. He told me that the rogue could use acrobatics to catch the target off guard and make them flat-footed, but it never seemed right to me.
Again thank you all for your input this helps a lot.


Ironpaw wrote:

Wow, thank you all for the information, I thought I was missing something or not understanding the rules. As for more info on the character, its a level 4 rogue with no special items, or abilities that would allow anything from basics. At first I thought that they were using Stealth to accomplish this (almost like the bluff on catching them off guard) but when I brought it up I was mocked for it and told he (the more experienced DM) knew what he was talking about. He told me that the rogue could use acrobatics to catch the target off guard and make them flat-footed, but it never seemed right to me.

Again thank you all for your input this helps a lot.

He's so wrong it's funny. Because you can't do that with acrobatics at all. You can do it with bluff, by feinting your enemy. However! Feinting is normally a standard action (which means you can't attack that turn as attacking uses a standard action). In order to make feinting actually useful in combat it requires several feats. One such route is to pick up the feats for two weapon feint.

Quote:

Two-Weapon Feint (Combat)

You use one weapon to distract your enemy while slipping another past his defenses.

Prerequisites: Dex 15, Int 13, Combat Expertise, Two-Weapon Fighting.

Benefit: While using Two-Weapon Fighting to make melee attacks, you can forgo your first primary-hand melee attack to make a Bluff check to feint an opponent.


Awesome thank you, this helps so much.


Hmm. He might he referring to acrobatics from the 3PP--- 101 skill uses. It basically allows someone to roll an acrobatic check vs their CMD. If they are successful, they get on sneak attack off and are able to move a bit. If they fail they fall prone and provoke an AoO.

That's the only thing I can think of, but that's using a 3PP book not core Paizo.


Huh, Aristin76 I will have to ask if that is where he is pulling it from. I didn't have a big problem with it in the game.. just hate not knowing where it is coming from. Thank you

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