|
Last Friday my group took on part 2 of The Worldwound Incursion. As I am running a party of six I wanted to keep them challenged and continue to provide them with enough experience and treasure to make up for the increased party size. I think I may have over done it...
I didn't want to stop in the middle of combat (and this wound up as a very long combat since people kept walking into rooms without stopping) just to have everyone spend an hour leveling up their characters, and was unsure how to proceed from my end of the table with the action never getting a break.
I removed the cave lizard completely purely so they didn't get turned into paste while running right into the arms of the inquisitor. In the end it only helped a little since by the end of the fight with Hosilla three party members had been reduced to zero or few hit points, the healer had to be picked back up with a healing potion before he could channel energy to get the rest of the group on their feet and moving, and the everyone was completely out of spells, daily abilities, potions, mostly out of arrows/bolts, and generally pretty screwed up.
By the end of this section of the adventure the players were pretty frustrated, and I think they felt like I was out to get them. How can I strike that right balance between hard and fun without it becoming Mega Man levels of difficult. Do I increase the numbers, but play the bad guys as a little dumber, play up the intelligence/cunning of their foes, but leave the numbers alone, or should I be doing something completely different.
I want this to be fun for my group, and so I'm asking for their feedback, but I don't think they want to hurt my feelings either, knowing that I put a lot of work into the adventure for them. What say you forum goers?
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
First off... is the party new to playing?
If so than this is a valuable lesson for them. You do not continue to "trigger" rooms while you are in the middle of fights! Also some dungeons you just have to find a "resting" spot so you can go back to come back fresh.
If they are not, while it is their own damn faults for treating a dungeon like disneyland!
I don't think you overdid anything, and the fault is not yours here. I mean if they were new, I would have asked several times, are you sure you want to do that? Explaining to them the dangers... if they weren't new I would shake my head and gleefully slaughter them as they made such newbie mistakes... much like when they split the party... hint you never split the party.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'm not sure you really did a whole lot wrong by the sounds of it. It does sound like the players are fairly new to this kind of RPG.
My husband, an experienced GM offers this advice:
1. Talk to them out of game that they need to work on scouting ahead. School them a bit.
2. If that doesn't work, you can play the foes a little dumber, less tactical. Let them learn.
3. If they are still trying to barrel through without resting or preparing, then they need to reap the consequences.
This isn't a video game. You don't go unconscious and then bounce back up after the fight is over.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Well, they all survived, so while you may have gone a little overboard it wasn't too much. I'd say you hit just the right level to warn them that some things may be too much for them to handle and that they should be a little more cautious in future.
Bear in mind however that they may not be interested in a cautious game, and be prepared to adjust if that becomes clear.
It really depends on what kind of game your players want. If they want to have a game where they are challenged, and have to overcome the challenge, like a puzzle to be solved, I think you did everything perfectly. However, if they just want to tell a story, kick arse, and be heroes, with just enough challenge to make it feel like an adventure, then you probably did go a very little bit overboard. That being said, no one died, and they still completed at least half of the area, so I don't see how they can complain to much.
One thing I will do is tell the players that at some point during the game they will level up, and that I'd them to select skills, roll for hit points, and so forth. They will continue at the lower level until such time they level up, at which point I'll tell them and they can use the newer character sheet. However, they do not gain access to new spells or abilities only used once every 24 hours until they have rested.
Thus you don't pause during the game but don't have underpowered characters going up against threats they're not ready for.
|
I don’t think you did very much wrong here, after all the players have to asses their own fighting abilities and decide when it is time to rest. Removing the lizard was the right call though.
While this AP doesn’t have a strict timer attached, my players did feel a strong sense of urgency to return the surface, maybe that influenced their decision making.
I've gotta agree with just about everything being said here. With a party of 6 PCs you're gonna have to make adjustments throughout. You're players weren't being careful and triggering rooms without much caution and sometimes that can really screw things up. On the same note, cudos to you for knowing when to pull your punches quickly (when made sure the lizard didn't happen) so that it at least gave your players a chance to retreat and regroup with only the lose of some resources and dignity.
The only piece of advice for making adjustments like the ones you made is be careful when adding class levels to NPCs because sometimes it'll give them access to higher level spells that can be game changers for an entire encounter (i.e. the 3rd level benchmark spells: fireball/haste/dispel magic) Sometimes it might be safer to add a henchman to an encounter instead of adding levels.
EDIT: Also, while it is fun to play all of your NPCs as intelligent and completely tactical, remember to follow the tactics that are given in their stat blocks (especiallys folks like Hosilla & Wenduag) because while sometimes they might be sub-optimal those tactics are there to give players a chance if it might be a difficult encounter.
Actually, for added players it's quite often better to just increase the number of foes than increase the level. It's a little thing called Action Economy. Or to put it another way, the lack of Action Economy in my Reign of Winter campaign has resulted in a 5th level party trouncing a Mythic Invulnerable Advanced Moss Troll with two levels of Fighter. It's a tad painful to watch in fact.
Likewise, in my Runelords game, Crowfoot (despite being rebuilt to be a Slayer from the new Class playtest rules) ended up very vulnerable to a player swarm after he did a Spring Attack against the Barbarian (missing, I might add). While the group didn't see where he went because the corn was too thick, the Cleric (with Travel Domain) popped into the air immediately, spotted Crowfooot, and spotted him for everyone else. It was a slaughter and a foe with over 100 hit points dropped quite quickly.
So my advice is if you're rebuilding an encounter, add 50% to the Mooks (or add a couple mooks if there aren't any!) so to increase action economy. (Exception: Don't add undead if there is someone who can Channel Positive Energy in the group.)
|
|
Thank you all for the feedback. I ran the third game for this group last Friday, without making any changes to the adventure at all so that I could see what kind of extremes I'd be looking at here, and noted that the encounters were cake for the party. For example:
I played the NPC exactly as written, and did the same for the encounter with the crusaders in the street. In both cases it was over so fast that the groups barbarian didn't even get to take part in the latter example, and only got one swing in the sooner.
I think, after having seen both directions I can go with it I have found a middle ground that will make sure that the party is 100% involved, and is 100% invested.
I'll be taking the advice on numbers over levels and will be keeping an eye on the group to see if there is anything that I need to adjust on the fly if I have to.
I'll be back with more in the future, I'm sure, and thank you all again for the input.
Not saying you were doing this and it looks like you got the advice you were looking for but I think in general it is always important to remember as the DM you know exactly how to take the pc's apart. That doesn't mean your creatures do...make sure their tactics are in keeping with what they know, take into account their baseline intelligence level as well as how much foreknowledge they have....just food for thought.