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As I am 30 and out of the house it isn't a problem for me, however my youngest brother is wanting to get into pathfinder and my father is extremely conservative religiously. Can anyone possibly point me in the right direction of some articles I can show him or anything really along those lines so we can at least get a dialogue going?
P.S. Sorry if this is in the wrong section.
Hand him a copy of the Beastiary, turned to the page where it talks about demons in general. Ask him to read it. Afterwards, point out these creatures are typically the enemy of the players and the game system rewards you for opposing them.
That's how I got a minister into playing DnD and, now, Pathfinder.
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Check out the link below to the Christian Gamers Guild. It should put you on the chaplain's corner page, which has some great articles. Pay special attention to the Faith and Gaming series of articles; they've been incredibly helpful to me.
Also, I'm a pastor who's played rpg's since about 7th grade, so let me know if I can be of further help.
http://www.christian-gamers-guild.org/chaplain/index.html
Jason
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It's difficult to answer to questions of faith. By definition if such a question comes up, the answer is going to be based more of feelings than logic. As such, while I could write a really long article and quote scripture and theological sources: that won't convince anyone. This is especially true in an area with such a broad user base.
Here's three really basic things to consider:
1. Like a computer, roleplaying is a system of sorts. While some might use a computer for education, research, and as means to stay in touch with family and friends, other might use it take steal, to belittle others, or trade in the black market.
I think it's important to note this to people who don't play. It's not a sterile and clean system and anyone who tries to tell you it is, is partaking of a little too much fantasy dust.
This leads to the next two points on why I, specifically game.
2. There has to be dark in a game world. Just like movies and books, there has to be evil in the gaming world. Some people, when they play, dwell on that evil, but to me, it's a chance for the good to shine all the brighter. Simple analogy: It's much easier to see the screen on your phone in the dark than it is in the light. It's much easier to display what is right and good in the world if it's set against a backdrop of evil. This is another area where you don't want to pull punches to non-gamers. They've heard about those one in ten thousand times when a game becomes dark.
People will have heard of the bad and that leads to the next reason I game.
3. The world is a dark place. To be honest, I saw worse in Iraq than I'd ever expose a player to as far as game evil goes. I play because in the real world, good doesn't always win. There isn't anything I can do about social injustice or all the bad things that happen around me. I play to let the light in me shine and help me feel again like I can make a difference in the world around me. Even if it is for just a few moments around a gaming table: helping people to laugh and be happy and making the troubles outside lighten for even just a little bit.
In short, like giving a kid a computer, allowing a kid to game does require vigilance on the parent's part. It should be with friends that the parent can get to know and trust: the same as it should be with all extra-curricular activities.
If you can get a hold of The Leading Edge Magazine (a Brigham Young University publication) in issue #20 is an article called, "It's not whether you live or die, it's how you play the game." by Tracy Hickman.
Even though the game rewards you for facing demonic adversaries, the mere mention of these forces, coupled with the use of spells in-game, is what has led some of my family members to forbid their children from playing the game.
Their reasoning, it seems, is that their children might become intrigued by the occult, and upon researching spells and magic in general, consort with demons (which they believe are real). It's hard to reason with someone that believes in the literal/physical existence of hell, demons, and/or magic.
In short, I'm not sure it can be done--that is, convincing them that the game is merely a game. To you, sure--it's a game. To them--it's the gateway drug that will lead to an eternity of hellfire.
Best of luck, though, and if you manage to convince them, I'd be much interested in hearing about it.
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A good place to start might be with Lord of the Rings, given how well-known it's become lately thanks to the movies. Point out the similarities between the game and Tolkien's works.
Then point out that Tolkien himself was an extremely religious man - to the point of converting C. S. Lewis, author of the clearly-Christian-inspired Narnia books, out of atheism - and how much Christian influence is in Middle-Earth.
Hopefully that should be enough, along with an explanation that the story is in the hands of the storyteller and that outside that the game is just numbers and descriptions and pictures, to be put together by the players and the GM.
If you run into the kind of person who thinks LOTR is devil-work because it has magic and demons in it despite Tolkien's own religious leanings, I don't think we can help you.
It seems to me that you would be your youngest brother's greatest advocate. I assume you're a pathfinder player, since you're posting here. Tell your father about all the positives of the gaming experience, and answer any questions he may have ("I've heard that...")
A few good attributes of gaming (IMO):
Encourages teamwork
Encourages reading & writing
Encourages good math skills
Thanks for the advice everyone after its all said and done ill let you all know how things worked out.
Just explain to them that was Dungeon & Dragons that was all bad and such...This is Pathfinder completely different. ;)
Seriously can't really help you if we don't know why your parents object to the game? I actualy run into alot of religious folk who just object because you are rolling dice.
It's the demons and witchcraft thing. They got really heavy handed after a family member who was an avid gamer committed suicide years back. I was grounded in high school for reading Harry Potter.
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If your worldview is that demons exist and Christians should be vigilant and strive to work against them, then that end would not be served by refusing to talk about demons!
'Know your enemy', and all that!
One could argue that playing a Pathfinder campaign that involves fighting demons and undead would be the best preparation (nay, the only preparation) one could do for the eventual Apocalypse in the event that they were left behind.
As I am 30 and out of the house it isn't a problem for me, however my youngest brother is wanting to get into pathfinder and my father is extremely conservative religiously.
Excuse me but... how young is your youngest brother?
I am 30 and out of the house
There you go. Problem solved.
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As I am 30 and out of the house it isn't a problem for me, however my youngest brother is wanting to get into pathfinder and my father is extremely conservative religiously.Excuse me but... how young is your youngest brother?
17 years old. In other news after talking with my father about my experiences with the game and a discussion about clerics and religion with our pastor who it turns out has a son that plays he is going to let my brother play provided that it doesn't interfere with his school work and he doesn't start acting weird as he put it.
Thank you all for the advice.
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... he doesn't start acting weird ...If my father had put that as a condition I wouldn't still be gaming today.
Luckily, I was already acting weird before I started gaming, so that wasn't an issue.
Not a religious issue but I did, at one point, get grounded and my dad ordered me to hand over all my gaming stuff to him when he got home from work, so he could burn it all. I dutifully piled all the books up on the table in the kitchen. Then took all my notes, notebooks, maps, and characters and slipped out of the house and stashed them with my friends until it all blew over. My dad relented on the burning part and simply locked the books away for three months until my grades improved.