Azurespark |
I'm going to play a bomber alchemist in a kingmaker campaign. And I've been looking through the discoveries trying to decide which to take. But there are so many good bomb ones, that it's hard to choose what order to take them in.
The party consists of:
Monk
Melee Fighter
Melee Inquisitor
Caster Druid
Bard who I think will be in melee.
And of course myself.
Everybody is human, except the monk is a half orc.
Human (Grenadier) Alchemist 1
Str 10
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 18
Wis 12
Cha 8
Feats
Lv1 Point blank Shot, Precise Shot, Martial Weapon Proficiency: Longbow (Bonus), Throw Anything (Bonus)
I'm thinking of taking craft wondrous item at lv5 or 7. But otherwise, I'll probably just be taking extra discovery.
For discoveries, I'd get precise bombs as a bonus discovery at lv2. Then I was thinking of getting frost bombs, smoke/stink bombs or tanglefoot bombs, Infusion by lv4 or 5. And fast/force bombs at lv8 and 9. I haven't really thought about anything passed that.
Zwordsman |
frost bomb, and force bombs are the best damage alt and status affects.
I opted for just force on mine, but resistance didn't come up too much.
If you don't think you'll run into resistances much until force bomb then i'd get tangle instead, or the caltrops bomb (listed in the gnome race area but says its valid for all)
I don't know if they stack but the elf' archetype has an amazing tangle bomb modification.
you want fast bombs eventually but I'd say decide on that when you get there.
If your team is needing massive carpet bombing go for it. Most of my games involve many fights over a day so i went with force first so I don't blow through my bombs.
Smoke and stink are good for sure.
Azurespark |
True, I was thinking tanglefoot bomb would be good if I encountered any flying foes. But I could just use a normal tanglefoot bag to knock them down. Or would I be able to infuse an arrow with a tanglefoot bag using the grenadiers "alchemical weapon" ability?
I could get frost, smoke/stink and infusion by lv5 if I take extra discovery twice. What do you think of dispelling bomb?
Jaunt |
Dispelling bomb is a neat concept, but rarely works in theory. First, there has to be a spelled up foe. Okay, not so rare. Then you have to be able to make a touch attack, so no dispelling Mirror Image until you can rock out Echolocation as a 4th level extract (iirc). Then you have to make a dispel check and if it fails, you've wasted a bomb and a (part of a) turn.
There will be times when you want to dispel something, but most of the time, it will be more effective just to hit enemies with damage they're not immune to and force them to make saves against things they're not immune to. Dispelling is best when you're a caster either throwing it Quickened or with the means to strip multiple buffs.
The Mad Bomber isn't a bad starting place, but I would second guess an awful lot of it. For starters, sunlight bomb before stinkbomb? In fact, every other bomb before stinkbomb. Yes, I get that it has a stupid prereq of smoke bomb, but it's worth it. Anyone who fails their save against it is done. Mutagens are a weird pick over cognatogens; cogs boost your save DC, mutas give you dex so you hit with your lower iteratives. Point Blank Shot over Precise Shot sounds like someone trying to massage their level 1 numbers by assuming every enemy is within 30' but not within melee of any friendly. There are times or setups that will allow you such ideal firing solutions, but those things are the except, not the norm.
Azurespark |
Saw you mention craft wonderous items but didn't they clarify that alchemists can't make any magical items aside from potions?
I was going by an older post by james jacob, so it might have changed. But either way, I could just ask the gm about it.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mz2b?How-does-the-alchemist-use-discoveries-th at#4And I question a lot of the above build. You take weapon focus on a touch attack before precise shot? And leave smoke/stink bomb until lv20?
mln84 |
Point Blank Shot over Precise Shot sounds like someone trying to massage their level 1 numbers by assuming every enemy is within 30' but not within melee of any friendly. There are times or setups that will allow you such ideal firing solutions, but those things are the except, not the norm.
Point Blank is a prerequisite for Precise Shot.
N. Jolly |
frost bomb, and force bombs are the best damage alt and status affects.
I opted for just force on mine, but resistance didn't come up too much.
If you don't think you'll run into resistances much until force bomb then i'd get tangle instead, or the caltrops bomb (listed in the gnome race area but says its valid for all)
I don't know if they stack but the elf' archetype has an amazing tangle bomb modification.you want fast bombs eventually but I'd say decide on that when you get there.
If your team is needing massive carpet bombing go for it. Most of my games involve many fights over a day so i went with force first so I don't blow through my bombs.Smoke and stink are good for sure.
First of all, I have some suggestions for a bomber here that might help. I'd honestly suggest going with Generalist Alchemist Build with Explosive Missile, or at least a Conducive Longbow to make sure those bombs hit when they need to.
Second, where is Caltrop Bomb? I can't find it on the SRD, and I'd like to make sure I have it added for my guide.
Azurespark |
Yea, I had that happen to me with my melee based alchemist, and his will save was pretty good too. But luckily I made the 2nd will save to avoid attacking my party. I do plan to get a cloak of resistance when I can and I took the bastard trait for +1 to will saves.
Depending on how things go, I might get infusion first, then smoke and stink bomb.
I have looked through your guide before jolly, it's very detailed. And I'm sure I caught a couple references to a certain series about alchemy.
N. Jolly |
Yea, I had that happen to me with my melee based alchemist, and his will save was pretty good too. But luckily I made the 2nd will save to avoid attacking my party. I do plan to get a cloak of resistance when I can and I took the bastard trait for +1 to will saves.
Depending on how things go, I might get infusion first, then smoke and stink bomb.
I have looked through your guide before jolly, it's very detailed. And I'm sure I caught a couple references to a certain series about alchemy.
Thank you, and I think bombs are a bit too limited to be chucking willy nilly, which is why I like Conducive as it only activates on a hit. I feel like you should get more bombs per day (I have a few house rules for my alchemist that I didn't add to the guide, like they all get Infusion for free and either Precise Bomb or Feral Mutagen for free), so bombs to me aren't really meant for damage. They're meant for CC, and that's what they're best at.
Azurespark |
Yea, getting infusion and precise bombs for free would be nice. That's why I went with grenadier, to get longbow proficiency and precise bombs for free.
I'm not too sure about using conductive, it requires 2 bombs per hit and you're hitting normal AC instead of touch. And even with the range penalties, it would likely still be easier to hit touch. So it just doesn't seem worth it, unless you're fighting someone with a high touch AC or the target is over 100 feet away.
Jaunt |
I had a derp moment, and have played too many human archers who start off with PBS and Precise at level 1.
The rest of my advice I stand by. Also, Extra Bombs (x2)seems a bit wasteful, given each only gives an extra 2 bombs and you could be trying to diversify your strengths.
I'm currently playing a bomber in Way of the Wicked with only a (revised) Slayer as the rest of my party, and am level 14, so I'm at least current on Alchemists if not exactly treading new ground. And with that said, I can say N. Jolly's guide is unparalleled. Sorry Ogre.
Mr. Jolly: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/uncommon-races/arg-svirfneblin/de ep-bomber-alchemist-svirfneblin/glassfoot-bomb That's what I (and probably others) meant by caltrop bombs. It's actually absent from your guide, and I predict nothing of value was lost.
Zwordsman |
Yeah thats what I was referring to. It's not super useful but its't not horribly bad. nasuea is almost always a better choice, but sometimes I want something that lasts longer than stink cloud's 1 round. etc Fun but certainly not super nifty (caltrops aren't epic in the first place, outside of possibly poisoning the alchemical caltrop batch)
If your a human, a possible feat would be that racial heritage so you can snag the more bombs on level up thing.