Goblin Squad Member
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The problem is that all of these things are available in games which aren't de Sade Online. I don't have any particular desire to play a game where I spent most of my time running around like a crap-covered peasant with a sharp bit of rock I found on the ground ...
It is exceedingly unlikely anyone would have that particular desire and, honestly, I cannot imagine a game designer who would imagine anyone would either.
So you can strike that quite remote possibility off your listing of probable outcomes.
If the game should turn out to be de Sade Online then it will be precisely because enough quality players did not join. The developers can really do little more than furnish an environment. It is for the players to make it something meaningful.
I'm reminded of the guys in a pickup match who blame their team bitterly when the other side scores a point. As if they were somehow not a member of the team they deride. And as a matter of fact...
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Goblin Squad Member
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The problem is that all of these things are available in games which aren't de Sade Online. I don't have any particular desire to play a game where I spent most of my time running around like a crap-covered peasant with a sharp bit of rock I found on the ground ...It is exceedingly unlikely anyone would have that particular desire and, honestly, I cannot imagine a game designer who would imagine anyone would either.
Isn't that what Rust is?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Which part of this nonsense is supposed to keep me playing this game instead of something that isn't nearly so masochistic?
Your opinions on nonsense are your own, but have you maybe thought that PFO might not suit your tastes? Not every game suits every playing style preference.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Isn't that what Rust is?The problem is that all of these things are available in games which aren't de Sade Online. I don't have any particular desire to play a game where I spent most of my time running around like a crap-covered peasant with a sharp bit of rock I found on the ground ...It is exceedingly unlikely anyone would have that particular desire and, honestly, I cannot imagine a game designer who would imagine anyone would either.
The video linked appears to be unsupported by IE. In Firefox... yes, it looks exactly like what the Man in Black is seeking here.
You thread your most important gear, which means you keep it upon death.
You get more threads as you "level up", as gear gets progressively more expensive.
The non-threaded stuff may be lost, but that is simply the norm of the game,
it isn't fundamentally different than how you use "consumables" like potions, healing food, etc.
You're not supposed to be emotionally attached to non-threaded gear, and if you aren't, there is no problem.
People in the real world don't tend to carry all their possessions and gear at the same time, not much different.
You KNOW the non-threaded stuff is not safe, and plan accordingly.
Yes, that means, you tend not to carry all your best gear simultaneously,
that's just the norm of the game, and everybody is on the same page.
You will tend to have less expensive/powerful gear in non-threaded slots,
which seems fine unless your base assumption is that all worn gear must be of equivalent price/power/tier.
And of course, losing gear has a different implication in a persistent sandbox than in a PVE themepark,
all looted gear is still in the game world, keeping prices down if you want to replace it.
Risk and consequences is the entire point of this game... as for most games, last time I checked.
It's certainly a different game than the one that tabletop may be,
although TT itself may vary strongly from GM coddled PCs to gritty sandboxes and everything in-between.
I'm sure Paizo has adequate confidence in the direction of PFO and how their IP (the Golarion world*) is being used.
Nothing is a surprise here, all this stuff has been long known.
* I always thought the game would be better titled Golarion Online, but Pathfinder has better brand recognition. /shrug
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Goblin Squad Member
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Isn't that what Rust is?The problem is that all of these things are available in games which aren't de Sade Online. I don't have any particular desire to play a game where I spent most of my time running around like a crap-covered peasant with a sharp bit of rock I found on the ground ...It is exceedingly unlikely anyone would have that particular desire and, honestly, I cannot imagine a game designer who would imagine anyone would either.
Lol, yes. I bought into the alpha and fooled around in it for a bit. At one point I was pounding on a tree with my "starter-rock" and this other player ran up real close to me, bare-chested with dirty trousers and also a rock in his hand. That was when I realized I wasn't interested in being a half-naked bum in a world full of half-naked bums, banging on trees.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Rust is basically what you'd get if you took a Minecraft clone, traded in most of the fun and creativity for some cheap brutality and squalor, and spent the leftover time on the graphics so players can get a more immersive vision of what it's like to be a naked man holding a rock.
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Goblin Squad Member
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And in practice that is not the case in PvE. I've never played a game where the mobs that kill you, actually loot you.I concur, Shane: there should be no specialized PvE balancing any different from PvP, no special rules. Mobs that win should gain the benefit of your unthreaded loot is all.Which, in practice, would be identical to a player who beats you in PvP taking your stuff.
PO wants to be different than other MMOs.
For EE I can get behind the same percent unthreaded inventory loss when you're killed in pvp or pve. Then it doesn't matter any mix of player or NPC damage taken you just really want to avoid dying. That's exciting especially if everything has suddenly gone sideways. Also total non-threaded inventory loss if your husk disappears (if you can't reclaim it in time).
As far as future plans for intelligent NPCs (in the D&D context) looting your husk, equipping items logically (goblins may only go for a helmet and sword and leave the rest but humans might take it all to sell), and using your consumables, I'm down for that once the code can be done right and server can handle it.
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Goblin Squad Member
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This is even worse. The newest players have the most to lose, while more-experienced players eventually level out of having to worry about the punishing death penalties at all. This is the opposite of good design: the only people who have to assess risk are the ones who know the least about the game and are most likely to quit after a run of bad luck.You thread your most important gear, which means you keep it upon death.
You get more threads as you "level up", as gear gets progressively more expensive.
The non-threaded stuff may be lost, but that is simply the norm of the game,
Newest players only have the most to lose if they're using equipment stronger than what they should be using. A character threading items around his power level will be able to keep almost all his equipment threaded at low levels, and as you go up you can thread less and less until, when you are at the peak of equipment power/character level, you can only thread one or two max power items at the most. Source is the end of this blog post.
What part of Pathfinder implies ruthless assessment of possible risk? Last I checked, it's a high fantasy roleplaying game, not Logistics & Dragons.
The trope of "high-fantasy MMO where you play as an immortal, awesome looking badass" is done and redone every year. This game is something different from the themepark games where that's typically the case.
You can't have a sandbox game where everyone can affect the world and also have every person be a max level badass with a +10 flaming sword and a full magical armory on their person, without such a game being incredibly silly and immersion breaking. Can only be so many history-defining rulers of the world in one place, you know?
Realize that the area of power that each character covers is only around levels 1-8 or so in PFRPG. Because an open world game where most of the characters are literal demigods, though it would probably be interesting to play, is not this game.
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Goblin Squad Member
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This is even worse. The newest players have the most to lose, while more-experienced players eventually level out of having to worry about the punishing death penalties at all. This is the opposite of good design: the only people who have to assess risk are the ones who know the least about the game and are most likely to quit after a run of bad luck.You thread your most important gear, which means you keep it upon death.
You get more threads as you "level up", as gear gets progressively more expensive.
The non-threaded stuff may be lost, but that is simply the norm of the game,
Newest players only have the most to lose if they're using equipment stronger than what they should be using. A character threading items around his power level will be able to keep almost all his equipment threaded at low levels, and as you go up you can thread less and less until, when you are at the peak of equipment power/character level, you can only thread one or two max power items at the most. Source is the end of this blog post.
What part of Pathfinder implies ruthless assessment of possible risk? Last I checked, it's a high fantasy roleplaying game, not Logistics & Dragons.The trope of "high-fantasy MMO where you play as an immortal, awesome looking badass" is done and redone every year. This game is something different from the themepark games where that's typically the case.
You can't have a sandbox game where everyone can affect the world and also have every person be a max level badass with a +10 flaming sword and a full magical armory on their person, without such a game being incredibly silly and immersion breaking. Can only be so many history-defining rulers of the world in one place, you know?
Realize that the area of power that each character covers is only around levels 1-8 or so in PFRPG. Because an open world game where most of the characters...
Thanks for the part about the differentials in threading as power levels increase Shane. I am not positive, but from the impression of A Man in Black's replies, I too got the feeling that he didn't quite have all the info. :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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I imagine that using your +20 Sword of Killing Doom wont be a problem due to threading. We know that if you thread an item you get to keep it when you die, the amount of threads required to bind an item is based on how powerful it is (i imagine this is tied to tier of equipment + major/minor keywords), if it is equiped (only currently equiped items can be threaded).
As a result my guess is that MOST players will thread their weapon and their armor first, then everything else.
however the nature of threading now presents an interesting choice. We know you can have skill slots for two different weapons and for implements. However you cannot have both weapons equiped at the same time so one of them will be unthreaded at all times. the result is that we now have more meaningful choices. Do i carry 1 really powerful weapon, thread it, and not switch to my other weapon. This means that i am in no danger of losing the weapon, HOWEVER i have just reduced the amount of skills I have available for me to use or do I use a secondary weapon to give me more options and put my equipment at risk.
I suspect that most players will be in either mid/high T2 gear or low T3 gear as their everyday gear, with a set of really good T3 gear for when they need to get it done. well funded organizations/players will be different story.
I think thats a great choice to give us as players.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Also, you'll use the same Threads for Gear as you do for Bind Points.
Additionally, players use threads to bind to intermediary resurrection sites...
Obviously, the ability to reset your Threads is going to be key. If we're in our T2 "running around" gear, we might also Thread several Bind Points. But I imagine we'll quickly drop those extra Bind Points when we don our T3 "now we mean business" gear.
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Goblin Squad Member
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This is even worse. The newest players have the most to lose, while more-experienced players eventually level out of having to worry about the punishing death penalties at all. This is the opposite of good design: the only people who have to assess risk are the ones who know the least about the game and are most likely to quit after a run of bad luck.You thread your most important gear, which means you keep it upon death.
You get more threads as you "level up", as gear gets progressively more expensive.
The non-threaded stuff may be lost, but that is simply the norm of the game,
Something got missed here.
Higher-level items consume more threads to tie them. Characters earn more threads as they advance in level, but they gain threads more slowly than they gain level-appropriate gear. This means a starting character will be able to thread of his equipment to him, while a high-level character will probably have to pick and choose what he uses his threads on if he is using all high-end gear.
PFO is not a game where ruthless risk assessment will be required of those least capable of making reasonable assessments. In fact, it's the opposite. The newest players will have the easiest time and be least likely to lose something important to them.
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Thanks, I realized I didn't express that concept completely, and it may have been misleading.
I'm still not sure why anybody would just be engaging in complaint after complaint when they
haven't availed themselves of reading the Blogs to understand what the game is actually about.
It's not like I or anybody else here has any secret knowledge, it's all in the Blogs for the most part.
I mean, some of that may change, and comments from GW folk may have given some hints beyond what the Blog says,
but the Blog information is the foundation of what the game is supposed to be,
either you're not interested in the game at all, or your opinion should be based off the Blog info..../shrug
I do think GW should aim towards revamping the publicly available info,
to cover everything known but aiming to inform people who may know nothing about PFO so far.
Especially if they are trying to gather further crowdfunding, a better website and source of info would be good.
If people try to use this forum as a base, they are going to base their understanding all off Bludd vs. Carebear arguments and such.
While that isn't entirely irrelevant, if they don't have an understanding of the base to begin with, it could be confusing.
Even the blog is old and outdated and confusing, so it' better to over-haul it completely,
so that all the information presented is accurate to the current state of things (and envisioned future developments).
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Goblin Squad Member
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For the MiB agent and anyone else that is familiar with PFRPG tabletop but does not yet understand Pathfinder Online:
Imagine a competitive version of the Kingmaker adventure path.
The game is primarily about exploring a frontier, claiming & conquering resources & land, building settlements, establishing an economy to trade between them... and/or declaring wars and fighting between them, and taking the adventures that develop in the meantime. There will be monsters and they'll even grow in power if not dealt with, but there won't be a lot of scripted quests like "Rats are in the basement! Go collect 10 rat tails." As far as traditional "starter quests" go, being a caravan guard is more likely, only in this case the caravan owners will be other players and it will make some difference to the world if the caravan makes it to its destination or is trashed by goblins or robbed by bandits.