This is going to be a little ranty (okay, a lot ranty), so take everything I say with a grain of salt and the understanding that at this very moment, I'm a bit salty due to the circumstances. I know what type of responses I'm expecting... guess I'm just looking for some sympathy from fellow GMs who have dealt with similar situations.
So I have this friend who plays in my group. Well, they're all my friends, really. Anyway, we've been playing regularly on Saturdays for the past four months. The first session, he showed up an hour and a half late, with his brother (who was not actually invited, mind you). I had to scramble to get his brother a character to play with and fit him into the campaign.
He is regularly complaining while we play that his dice rolls are bad or that his character can't do anything or some other complaint that generally just kills the mood. He is on his second character because he didn't like his first character (mostly due to poor optimization and a lack of options, which I tried to explain to him would happen if he didn't heed GM advice).
The second time we played, he was half an hour late, with his brother.
Another time, he never showed up and then half an hour after we were supposed to start, I finally called him to find out he wasn't coming because he was "ugughughuhghg soooooo sick" (exaggeration his) ... after I spent the evening before with him, where he was perfectly fine.
I've had to cancel at the last minute four or five times now because he can't make it, and when he can't make it his brother can't make it, meaning I have to either run two characters myself or run a seat-of-my-pants campaign without any preparation for the other two members of my group.
He just canceled again, last minute, and I now have to tell my other players we won't be playing again. When we started our campaign (running the RotRl AE AP), I told them all we would try to play as often as we can. I understand that sometimes, things come up, and we have to cancel. That's one thing. But when it's seemingly every other session, that's not acceptable to me. I put a lot of time, effort and money into preparing for my game sessions -- heck, two weeks ago I built a freaking felt-covered gaming table (it came out awesome, btw) because I decided our playing surface was too small and not conducive to dice rolling!
Anyway, his repeated failure to show up come game day has really upset me. I want to ask him not to show up any more, but he's also a friend of mine. I don't want him to take it personally but I've already taken his failure to show up on a regular basis personally, and I just want him to understand that him failing to show really hurts me and affects the rest of the group as well.
Not only that, but his brother, despite my initial complaint on the inclusion of, is actually vested in the game, is doing well, has a pretty great character, and wants to play. He can't come without his brother because, well, he's only 16 and doesn't have a car. The rest of us are in our late 20's, and, frankly, I don't feel comfortable with the minor being in my home without his brother also being present. His mother feels the same way (though she knows the rest of us and has for many years), and I understand that.
Anyway, I did talk to him about this problem since this last time he canceled (today, and we were set to play tomorrow) was really the final straw. I expressed how it lets not only me but the rest of the group down and that it's not fair to anyone else. He responded by telling me that if he were in my situation, he would understand because things happen and get in the way; the game will still be there later.
I am soliciting advice: do I drop my expectations, compromise my values and spend less time preparing so I don't get so let down when he inevitably won't show up? Do I ask him not to show up anymore? I mean, with logic like, "I'm busy, the game will still be there later" should I make a point that, no, the game won't be there, because you weren't there for the game? I don't want to exclude his younger brother because of his decisions, either, but again, not comfortable with being 100% responsible for his young brother. Ugh. I'm so frustrated at this point. My other players have no problem showing up on time, every time.
/rant
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Flaky players will be flaky. Set a start time, and start at that time. He can jump in an hour and a half later than everyone else.
Worked for our group!
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set a start time and play regardless. Players will have to compensate for him not being there and he will have to miss out on the story....that or kick him and explain why he isn't being asked to join anymore...put it to a player vote and see what they think.
The GM runs the show in game but that doesn't mean they have to run every aspect of getting together. ask the other players how they feel snad see what they want
I've asked friends who i've gamed with for years to bow out of my game, because they couldnt commit to it. Gaming in a rpg like pathfinder is a commitment. Its understandable if you cant do it, not everyone has the time. I wouldnt hold it against someone, but I would also not ask them to join my campaign.
Your friend is flakey. It may be his personality (which it is from the sound of it) or it may be his life and circumstances. In the end it doesnt matter, and its not a matter of him being not available (I think) but him flaking out on you. Regardless of reasons its a problem.
I personally would run a game for your 2 reliable players and ask the flake not to join. Its unfortunate his brother wouldnt be able to join you but that is also the way it needs to be. And you can play a game with just 2 players. I've done it fairly successfully in the past. My prefered route is to have them run gestalt characters (basically you get 2 classes worth of abilities) that include 'pets' like the druid or summoner to make up for action economy.
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As far as I see it you have two options.
1. Set up your game so that he is not required to be there or on time. If that means adding another reliable player you may need to. This way he cant screw the entire table with his shotty attendance and tardiness.
2. Kick from group. Sometimes your best friends make your worst players.
Depends a lot on the other people in your group. Would there be someone willing to play him like a cohort when he isn't there?
What I think I would do - accept the fact he's flaky, don't give him major plot points and run the game mostly for your regulars. Don't drive yourself crazy and scramble to make things work. If he's disruptive during the game that's another matter entirely.
All of this is helpful, everyone, thank you for the support and advice. I've talked to my other players... one doesn't care what we do as long as he can play (it was he who prompted me to run the campaign in the first place), and the other one isn't sold on the idea of playing without the other regular players. He cited that the missing players would miss plot elements, it would break up the group, it would be imbalanced, etc, etc, all things I can deal with, but it looks like my gaming pretty much hinges on this one player who can't make it most of the time. He's a control freak and would likely stop coming himself if I chose to go against his wishes on this. Basically, I guess I've got a good group of friends who make bad players. They don't quite seem to "get it," if you know what I mean.
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All of this is helpful, everyone, thank you for the support and advice. I've talked to my other players... one doesn't care what we do as long as he can play (it was he who prompted me to run the campaign in the first place), and the other one isn't sold on the idea of playing without the other regular players. He cited that the missing players would miss plot elements, it would break up the group, it would be imbalanced, etc, etc, all things I can deal with, but it looks like my gaming pretty much hinges on this one player who can't make it most of the time. He's a control freak and would likely stop coming himself if I chose to go against his wishes on this. Basically, I guess I've got a good group of friends who make bad players. They don't quite seem to "get it," if you know what I mean.
All to well Cuervo, all to well. I would love nothing more than to game with my best friends. They are my "best" for a reason. I love spending time with them. However, they just dont care enough about the game to make it work. I ended up dumping them and looked into sites like meetup.com. I made new friends based around gaming and have an awesome 6 year running group.
After thinking a 2x a month group was not enough I joined PFS. After meeting some great folks there, I now have two awesome groups for at least the past 3 years. I no longer have time for any PFS!
Occasionally, my best buds will be hanging out and will ask about my game. When I tell them how awesome it is I see they get this look in their eye. I feel bad sometimes but I just had move on if I wanted anything more than once a month goof ball gaming.
All of this is helpful, everyone, thank you for the support and advice. I've talked to my other players... one doesn't care what we do as long as he can play (it was he who prompted me to run the campaign in the first place), and the other one isn't sold on the idea of playing without the other regular players. He cited that the missing players would miss plot elements, it would break up the group, it would be imbalanced, etc, etc, all things I can deal with, but it looks like my gaming pretty much hinges on this one player who can't make it most of the time. He's a control freak and would likely stop coming himself if I chose to go against his wishes on this. Basically, I guess I've got a good group of friends who make bad players. They don't quite seem to "get it," if you know what I mean.
It may not be what you want to hear, but have you considered telling your group that you'd like to step back for a month or two and let someone else GM? You can explain that you aren't really happy with the group dynamic as it stands right now, and that you would like to give someone else the chance to have a fling at it. If the group falls apart, you can do something else for a while and handpick new members for another group down the line.
All of this is helpful, everyone, thank you for the support and advice. I've talked to my other players... one doesn't care what we do as long as he can play (it was he who prompted me to run the campaign in the first place), and the other one isn't sold on the idea of playing without the other regular players. He cited that the missing players would miss plot elements, it would break up the group, it would be imbalanced, etc, etc, all things I can deal with, but it looks like my gaming pretty much hinges on this one player who can't make it most of the time. He's a control freak and would likely stop coming himself if I chose to go against his wishes on this. Basically, I guess I've got a good group of friends who make bad players. They don't quite seem to "get it," if you know what I mean.It may not be what you want to hear, but have you considered telling your group that you'd like to step back for a month or two and let someone else GM? You can explain that you aren't really happy with the group dynamic as it stands right now, and that you would like to give someone else the chance to have a fling at it. If the group falls apart, you can do something else for a while and handpick new members for another group down the line.
You're right; it isn't what I want to hear. If anything like that is going to happen it's going to be me starting another group. I would love to play in a campaign as a player but not in a campaign that any of the friends in my current group would run. I've played their campaigns before; no thanks. Maybe that makes me an elitist jerk or maybe it means what my friends want from the game isn't what I want. Either way, I don't think I'd enjoy it.
Play something else than PF with them? It sounds like your friends are, aside from somewhat immature, also not really aiming for a good RP experience. Maybe board games work better.
Play something else than PF with them? It sounds like your friends are, aside from somewhat immature, also not really aiming for a good RP experience. Maybe board games work better.
Sadly, I'm beginning to realize this is the most likely source of my problems. My players (save for one) aren't really on the same page as me. What's frustrating is that I've told them from the beginning what I want from the game and they've told me from the beginning what THEY want from the game, and from what words are said, we ARE on the same page. Then when it comes to actually playing, their true motives become clear... but that's really a subject for a different post.
They probably weren't lying - but most people aren't too good at judging their own motivations, and the more so the younger they are. Looking back a few decades, I wasn't too stellar at knowing what I actually wanted, either, until I was confronted with the results of my choices.
I'll second the suggestion that you have an alternate campaign ready to go for the days that your friend does not show up. My DM pretty much always has a plot ready to go for the nights that we do not achieve quorum for the main AP.
You could consider recruiting a few more players so that when someone doesn't show up, it's possible to muddle through without them. When my DM's group had 8 players in it, it was almost a good thing if someone didn't show up! 6 is a really great number of players to have; every role is usually covered even if 1 or 2 players can't make it out on a given game night and there are not so many players that the DM is overwhelmed and the game bogs down when everyone does show.
I strongly recommend that you DO NOT allow players in attendance to play absent player's characters. This makes for too many issues, especially if the character dies in the player's absence. Actual arguments I've seen players try on after they missed a session and their character died while being played by another player:
"Why did you do that (whatever got the character killed)? My character would never do that!"
"If I was rolling the dice, I wouldn't have died. You have terrible luck and I don't!"
"Am I really dead? Do I really have to make a new character? Can't we just rewind time or pretend it didn't happen since I wasn't here?"
"I have this piece of gear or that special ability that could have saved me but you don't know my character well enough to use it."
These days, my DM just plays without them--they vanish when their player is absent and *poof* reappear when their player is in attendance--rather than having to say to one of our friends "You are the one who can't live up to your commitments so it's your own damn fault that someone else got your character killed. Now get rolling on that new character so I can kill it next week when you flake out again." Or we play the alternate plot as I mentioned above.
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I like to think of my gaming group as being a sports team. The player needs to show up to the matches to participate. If they don't have time for it, then that's fine, but showing up on time is very crucial to the success of your game. In my opinion, it has equal levels of commitment as you'd have to have for a baseball/soccer/dodge-ball/whiffle-bat-extravaganza team.
I'll second the suggestion that you have an alternate campaign ready to go for the days that your friend does not show up. My DM pretty much always has a plot ready to go for the nights that we do not achieve quorum for the main AP.
You could consider recruiting a few more players so that when someone doesn't show up, it's possible to muddle through without them. When my DM's group had 8 players in it, it was almost a good thing if someone didn't show up! 6 is a really great number of players to have; every role is usually covered even if 1 or 2 players can't make it out on a given game night and there are not so many players that the DM is overwhelmed and the game bogs down when everyone does show.
I strongly recommend that you DO NOT allow players in attendance to play absent player's characters. This makes for too many issues, especially if the character dies in the player's absence. Actual arguments I've seen players try on after they missed a session and their character died while being played by another player:
"Why did you do that (whatever got the character killed)? My character would never do that!"
"If I was rolling the dice, I wouldn't have died. You have terrible luck and I don't!"
"Am I really dead? Do I really have to make a new character? Can't we just rewind time or pretend it didn't happen since I wasn't here?"
"I have this piece of gear or that special ability that could have saved me but you don't know my character well enough to use it."These days, my DM just plays without them--they vanish when their player is absent and *poof* reappear when their player is in attendance--rather than having to say to one of our friends "You are the one who can't live up to your commitments so it's your own damn fault that someone else got your character killed. Now get rolling on that new character so I can kill it next week when you flake out again." Or we play the alternate plot as I mentioned above.
Yeah, I wouldn't consider letting any player play another player's character. At the same time, at least one of my players is opposed to playing unless everyone is present so that's a no go, anyway.