Goblin Squad Member
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Could they be? I have been wondering about Inns a lot and what they will become in the game. A place for travelers(buffs?),caravans(buffs?), the wounded(healing), refugees (the temporary homeless) or the Hunted(running from Bluddwolf)?
The KS said that as long as the owner pays upkeep it is immune for warfare and can not be taken away from him. This implies that Inns could develop a slightly different role in the game then your average settlement building/Poi. The fact that Inns (some or all?)will be placed out in the wild along travelroutes makes them hugely intriguing assets in PFO imo.
Making Inns a wanted destination for players has always been a difficult problem in MMO's imo. SWG managed to do it at least for a while since players were required to enter one so they could get rid of their wounds through player-entertainers, since there was no other way to do that. Afk player-entertainers quickly made their way into the game but at least Inns were social hubs for a time.
We know PFO will have wounds from crits that need a safe place (or certain specific spells) to heal so will an Inn be such a safe place? It would certainly make sense, but how safe should an Inn be?
I think the ramifications of an Inn being a safe-haven could be huge: they could be even more huge when the Inn is NOT a safe haven but would still be very much in demand through game-play mechanics (like being able to heal Wounds).
Will they play a role for trade-caravans? An Inn could be a place where a specific defensive "caravan" buff could be acquired; off course this very fact would also draw bandits to the Inn because they know caravans will want to visit the Inn for that reason.
I am usually not good in predicting the ramifications of implementing certain mechanics, like the Inn being a PvP safe haven: I know others are much better in that (and off course Ryan).
If they made Inns safe Havens(which would be a HUGE beneficial effect of the Inn) which (exploitable) scenarios could develop?
If they do NOT make Inns safe havens, then what should they do to make Inns a wanted destination, and what sort of scenarios would develop from that?
TLDR: paint me a picture of what could happen around Inns in the wild if GW manages to make them usefull in some way.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Well in RL, hiking there's nothing like collapsing in out of the rain into some shepherd's hut, having a brothy soup and hard bread with some victuals to wash it all down with!
If the Wilderness is genuinely dangerous and the system of crits and healing requires food and drink at inns as well as a safe heaven to cool-off and socialize (bards?) then could be one of the game's finest features working in "down-time" and possibly log-off locations (bunk for the night)?
I don't know about the whole immunity thing, it probably should be "Pax intrantibus, salus exeuntibus" to work, though.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I don't think anywhere in the game is planned to be a PVP free zone, even NPC cities. The consequences of PVP make it a real bad idea to start anything in them , NPC guards warp in and kill you. So having severe consequences for starting a fight in an Inn would work, that fits the game design as I am seeing it. An Inn should be as safe as an NPC city , you go there to heal not to PVP.
There are two types of Inn.
The kickstarter bought inn which people paid for and is both non destructable and non conquerable (as long as the upkeep is paid).
and
The POI style inn whereby an inn is constructed on a POI hex and can be both conquered and destroyed.
It is not clear to me whereabouts the first type of inn will be situated. Certainly however I do not think the second type is nor should be PVP exempt
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Goblin Squad Member
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There are two types of Inn.
The kickstarter bought inn which people paid for and is both non destructable and non conquerable (as long as the upkeep is paid).
and
The POI style inn whereby an inn is constructed on a POI hex and can be both conquered and destroyed.
It is not clear to me whereabouts the first type of inn will be situated. Certainly however I do not think the second type is nor should be PVP exempt
The backer-Inns should be along roads between settlements according to this quote from the KS:
In addition, this reward gives you ownership of a tavern somewhere in the Crusader Road starting area for Pathfinder Online. This tavern will be located on one of the roads between settlements and will be a valuable stopping off point for people moving through the wilderness.
It looks like there are beneficial effects of visiting an Inn, however because they are in a set location they could also start to act like traps then. They could make it so that when you attack someone in an Inn, that you would get a very large reputation hit, no matter your ALignment, Alliance or existing Wars/Feuds going on.
But where would the influence of the Inn stop? Right outside the door? You could get odd sitations then. Maybe the amount of reputation-hit should wane off the further you are from the Inn.
This could make for some interesting "ambushes" and "escapes".
Say, a caravan has stopped at an Inn to maybe get some drinks (buffs) and treat some Wounds. A bandit-clan has learned through an informer that happened to be near that this caravan has arrived. Timing is of the essence here off course and the caravan could make a clear escape if the bandit clan is not anywhere near the Inn.
But if the banditclan can get close quickly enough, then I could see the Caravan-party hole up in the Inn, protected by the huge reputation-hit that killing in an Inn gives, maybe wait for re-inforcements to come their way; the bandit-clan may also call in re-inforcements, or call it a day and leave.
You may get skirmishes between the opposing re-inforcements before they reach the Inn's "influence" zone, or they may all gather up in that zone and stare eachother down, untill the caravan-party decides they will have the upper hand in a fight and leaves the Inn. Once the safety of the Inn is left behind, a fight ensues or not, but this time no huge Inn-reputationhit will follow, just the normal Faction/War/Alignment mechanics will come into play.
I am sure I am missing something here that will make this play out a lot less interesting then I make it out to be, but maybe this is how an Inn, and the mechanic of a large reputationhit could possibly create some gameplay around the Inn.
There are two types of Inn.
The kickstarter bought inn which people paid for and is both non destructable and non conquerable (as long as the upkeep is paid).
and
The POI style inn whereby an inn is constructed on a POI hex and can be both conquered and destroyed.
It is not clear to me whereabouts the first type of inn will be situated. Certainly however I do not think the second type is nor should be PVP exempt
The backer-Inns should be along roads between settlements according to this quote from the KS:
In addition, this reward gives you ownership of a tavern somewhere in the Crusader Road starting area for Pathfinder Online. This tavern will be located on one of the roads between settlements and will be a valuable stopping off point for people moving through the wilderness.
Seems to me that at some point at least one of those inns is going to end up in enemy territory then as a nation encompasses the settlements surrounding it.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Seems to me that at some point at least one of those inns is going to end up in enemy territory then as a nation encompasses the settlements surrounding it.The backer-Inns should be along roads between settlements according to this quote from the KS:
In addition, this reward gives you ownership of a tavern somewhere in the Crusader Road starting area for Pathfinder Online. This tavern will be located on one of the roads between settlements and will be a valuable stopping off point for people moving through the wilderness.
I got the impression that these "backer-Inns" would be placed in NPC Hexes. If that's the case, they'll never be in a Settlement Hex.
NPC Hex: A limited number of hexes are controlled by NPC settlements, such as Thornkeep and Fort Inevitable. In addition, certain major trade routes are also chains of NPC hexes.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Seems to me that at some point at least one of those inns is going to end up in enemy territory then as a nation encompasses the settlements surrounding it.
Well, that is the thing, I think those out-in-the-wild Backer Inns could be more of a neutral terrain, without affiliation. I guess the owner will want to be part of some Settlement too, and it could be that his settlement at some point is actually not in control of the area where his inn is anymore(and his settlement quit likely destroyed). That would not stop me from happily keep running my Inn though, if I had one.
What I do not hope is that Backer-Inns will be along roads that only connect the starter NPC-cities, and thus will be basically in an area that will never really sees exiting warfare and such.
They do mention "starting area" though, which makes me a little dubious.
Steelwing, I made a large addition to my post btw, I thought I pushed the review button but instead pushed submit too early.
@Tyncale
The Poi inns will also deliver benefits so not sure if the backer inns give any different.
From the "Windows a wound" blog
Inn: A welcoming tavern that provides lodgings, player power regeneration, limited trade goods, some training for social classes, and a space for social interaction
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Tyncale
The Poi inns will also deliver benefits so not sure if the backer inns give any different.
From the "Windows a wound" blog
Inn: A welcoming tavern that provides lodgings, player power regeneration, limited trade goods, some training for social classes, and a space for social interaction
Sounds good, thanks for the quote. I wish we knew more about them. "Lodgings" does not say much, could this mean a place to log out (safely?) and then when you log in maybe have an invulnerabililty buff for a minute or so? What would the benefit be of "lodging"?
Also, are these benefits for everyone (backer-Inns) or only for those that own the PoI (for PoI Inns)?
It seems to me the big difference between backer-Inns and PoI Inns could be their affiliation and location, because Backer Inns are in a set location. I am starting to worry a bit that backer-inns may be safe from getting razed to the ground but that they are located in the NPC-city newbie area anyway and will not see much action since these hexes are not interesting for player-settlements.
Also, "a space for social interaction" is both intriguing and a little vague: *if* they manage to make Inns so that players will actually spend more then 30 seconds there (to heal their wounds or buy a quick buff), for instance through minigames, or other means(like wounds taking 10 mnutes to heal for instance), then things could get interesting. Because then Inns become a place where people gather, *away* from the direct influence of a City (where undoubtedly many players will be gathered at any time because of crafting, training and such) and this opens up a lot of PvP possibilities.
However, if the Inn gives no protection whatsoever, what would stop banditgroups from "camping" an Inn, and prey on Wounded players, players wanting to log off, caravans wanting to regenerate Power and such?
When Inns become succesfull and indeed attract players, they can become traps.
For a POI inn there will be NPC guards available I believe to punish those who manage to incur the criminal flag. I expect also that the safety of Inn's will vary dependent on the settlement that the POI is based in. For example a group like Pax who wish to turn their main settlement into a merchant hub I would expect to be regularly controlling the roads and environs of their settlements and that would include such watering holes as Inns on the routes in and out.
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Goblin Squad Member
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It seems to me the big difference between backer-Inns and PoI Inns could be their affiliation and location, because Backer Inns are in a set location. I am starting to worry a bit that backer-inns may be safe from getting razed to the ground but that they are located in the NPC-city newbie area anyway and will not see much action since these hexes are not interesting for player-settlements.
I think it's very likely that Backer-Inns will be placed in NPC Hexes along the major trade routes between the three NPC Settlements. I know TEO has a Backer-Inn. I expect they'll want to place their Settlement (if they're lucky enough to get one in the lottery) somewhat nearby. I really hope we're both (TEO and T7V) lucky enough to build neighboring Settlements in that core area so we can work to make sure most players' first experiences outside of the NPC Settlements don't suck.
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Goblin Squad Member
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It seems to me the big difference between backer-Inns and PoI Inns could be their affiliation and location, because Backer Inns are in a set location. I am starting to worry a bit that backer-inns may be safe from getting razed to the ground but that they are located in the NPC-city newbie area anyway and will not see much action since these hexes are not interesting for player-settlements.I think it's very likely that Backer-Inns will be placed in NPC Hexes along the major trade routes between the three NPC Settlements. I know TEO has a Backer-Inn. I expect they'll want to place their Settlement (if they're lucky enough to get one in the lottery) somewhat nearby. I really hope we're both (TEO and T7V) lucky enough to build neighboring Settlements in that core area so we can work to make sure most players' first experiences outside of the NPC Settlements don't suck.
Ah, ok, thanks for clarifying, I must admit that I did not have the map in my head. So there will be enough contested area between those 3 NPC cities, and thus make for some interesting clientele for a Backer Inn. Unless you guys manage to keep it ultra safe all the time. But I am sure people will try to prevent that. :)
@Steelwing Maybe NPC guards can be assigned to backer-inns too, that way they could become a little safer.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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The settlement and company that refuse to expel members who walk into taverns and initiate lethal combat will not be highly regarded by anybody with an opinion that matters.
You might not be mechanically prevented from fighting in the public house, but it can still be a bad idea in all circumstances.
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The settlement and company that refuse to expel members who walk into taverns and initiate lethal combat will not be highly regarded by anybody with an opinion that matters.
You might not be mechanically prevented from fighting in the public house, but it can still be a bad idea in all circumstances.
Absolute bull.
1) What you meant was "The settlement and company that refuse to expel members who walk into taverns and initiate lethal combat will not be highly regarded by anybody with an opinion that I Decius Brutus think matters. "
2) If we are at war with someone and they have an Inn POI we will most certainly walk in and slaughter everyone shortly before we burn it to the ground to clear the area for our siege camp. Don't like it? Tough
Your tone sucks Steelwing. Take it down a notch please.
The idea that inns should be safe from PVP is wrong headed and needs to be shot down. There is nothing sacrosanct about inns and there is no reason for them to be considered safe havens. I am pretty sure the fact your target is in an inn isn't going to prevent you fulfilling your contract Kryzbyn.
The idea that inns should be safe from PVP is wrong headed and needs to be shot down.It's a fait accompli. The Taverns that will be awarded to the Kickstarter backers who pledged for them will be sacrosanct as long as that backer maintains a subscription (or equivalent).
And those taverns will be in (from the kick starter page) "In addition, this reward gives you ownership of a tavern somewhere in the Crusader Road starting area for Pathfinder Online."
Which implies they will out of bounds for this discussion in any case.
I had already noted that we were talking about two types of tavern and that only the second was available for PVP in this thread. It is a reasonable assumption as I posted that tonight that I have not been stricken with amnesia and am therefore talking about the POI type
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Goblin Squad Member
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Your tone sucks Steelwing. Take it down a notch please.The idea that inns should be safe from PVP is wrong headed and needs to be shot down. There is nothing sacrosanct about inns and there is no reason for them to be considered safe havens. I am pretty sure the fact your target is in an inn isn't going to prevent you fulfilling your contract Kryzbyn.
He's commenting on your presentation, not your content.
He's commenting on your presentation, not your content.Your tone sucks Steelwing. Take it down a notch please.The idea that inns should be safe from PVP is wrong headed and needs to be shot down. There is nothing sacrosanct about inns and there is no reason for them to be considered safe havens. I am pretty sure the fact your target is in an inn isn't going to prevent you fulfilling your contract Kryzbyn.
And he is entitled to but as long as people keep invoking this mythical community and trying to rally it against perfectly acceptable game play then it will get short shrift in other words yes it makes me irritated.
There are many perfectly legitimate reasons to initiate combat within an Inn. To imply otherwise and to invoke the everyone should revile this clause is just as bad in my opinion and it is merely a case of my retort was more abrupt and overt than Brutus's.
Even then I at no point insulted him in that post I stated in fairly strong terms that the idea was bad and that I didn't care if people felt that opinion was wrong. Maybe people would have been happier if I couched it in flowery language but I doubt it.
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Goblin Squad Member
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My thoughts:
-Under most circumstances, allow the owner to determine what is or isn't allowed in his establishment. If you want a seedy, rough-n-tumble dive where theft and murder is a real possibility, by all means you should be able to have it. If you want a safe harbor for an inn, you should be able to have that too, and anyone attempting to break the rules should have severe consequences (criminal flag, tough NPC guards attack, etc...) The price for law and order at your inn- significantly more upkeep costs.
- If a state of war exists between the owner's settlement and the would-be PVPer, anything goes in the sense it should be treated as any other POI would be under the circumstances.
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In other words:
"I feel completely justified in being an asshat."
Ok, right on.
I understand your points. In early threads for PFO, things got pretty heated.
Things have calmed down since, we don't need to return to that.
You're (I assume) an adult, and are prefectly capable of phrasing your points in ways that don't sound like you are presenting yourself as the premier authority on MMO's, and we're all just the missinformed plebes you have to educate.
That's all I'm asking. Tone it down.
And, I'm not a mod, so feel free to ignore this simple request.
My thoughts:
-Under most circumstances, allow the owner to determine what is or isn't allowed in his establishment. If you want a seedy, rough-n-tumble dive where theft and murder is a real possibility, by all means you should be able to have it. If you want a safe harbor for an inn, you should be able to have that too, and anyone attempting to break the rules should have severe consequences (criminal flag, tough NPC guards attack, etc...) The price for law and order at your inn- significantly more upkeep costs.
- If a state of war exists between the owner's settlement and the would-be PVPer, anything goes in the sense it should be treated as any other POI would be under the circumstances.
The owner of the POI or the settlement it is beholden to can indeed do this and there are potentially flags, rep hits and alignment hits for attacking them. My point really was there is nothing inherently special nor should there be about the fact it is an Inn.
Ryan has said there will be ways for an assassin to stalk prey in a settlement of opposed alignment.
This much I remember.
That is using the disguise skill. The reason I mentioned it is that it is one of the many legitimate reasons that you may wish to initiate combat in an inn (of which there are many).
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Goblin Squad Member
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Ryan has said there will be ways for an assassin to stalk prey in a settlement of opposed alignment.
This much I remember.
And not just in player Settlements, but in the "safe" NPC Settlements, too.
It should be possible for someone to go virtually anywhere they can manage to gain admittance and target virtually any character for an assassination. This implies, obviously, that there should be ways to avoid alignment (and other) restrictions on access to various NPC areas.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think if you're going to have truly open PVP, no where should be 100% safe.
Conversely, if you're stalking a guy into an Inn, you'd better be ready to possibly be ambushed or realize there could be folks in there ready to defend the apparent innocent, or take part in the open season on you for being the aggressor.
I would fully expect both inn patrons and the owners to be able to retaliate free of alignment hits or reputation changes.
Unfortunately I am not sure Goblinworks agrees as there was this statement from the window's a wound blog
"When an Outpost is raided, the management company and associated PoI owners are notified. Any characters within the area of the Outpost (that aren't allied with the Outpost owners) are marked as Criminal and lose no stacks of Criminal until they leave the area"
If the bolded part is as described (and assuming raiding a POI has the same mechanics which I see no reason to doubt currently) then the inn patrons who have no alliance to the holding company could be marked as criminals as well. This however does not seem right to me (for either outpost or POI) and if there is a dev reading this could they clarify please
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Goblin Squad Member
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"When an Outpost is raided, the management company and associated PoI owners are notified. Any characters within the area of the Outpost (that aren't allied with the Outpost owners) are marked as Criminal and lose no stacks of Criminal until they leave the area"
If the bolded part is as described (and assuming raiding a POI has the same mechanics which I see no reason to doubt currently) then the inn patrons who have no alliance to the holding company could be marked as criminals as well. This however does not seem right to me (for either outpost or POI) and if there is a dev reading this could they clarify please
It seems right to me in the sense that most people usually get away from this kind of conflict unless they have a reason to stick around.
For what it's worth, I think this is exactly the kind of scenario Andius had in mind when he suggested his Assist mechanics. I agree it would be nice if there were a simple way to declare your intention to support one side or another in a conflict like this, and allow the player you're attempting to assist to quickly (or even automatically) accept your offer of help.
"When an Outpost is raided, the management company and associated PoI owners are notified. Any characters within the area of the Outpost (that aren't allied with the Outpost owners) are marked as Criminal and lose no stacks of Criminal until they leave the area"
If the bolded part is as described (and assuming raiding a POI has the same mechanics which I see no reason to doubt currently) then the inn patrons who have no alliance to the holding company could be marked as criminals as well. This however does not seem right to me (for either outpost or POI) and if there is a dev reading this could they clarify please
It seems right to me in the sense that most people usually get away from this kind of conflict unless they have a reason to stick around.
For what it's worth, I think this is exactly the kind of scenario Andius had in mind when he suggested his Assist mechanics. I agree it would be nice if there were a simple way to declare your intention to support one side or another in a conflict like this, and allow the player you're attempting to assist to quickly (or even automatically) accept your offer of help.
People these days do tend to move away from trouble however in every day life we are normal people on the whole. Our characters however are heros/anti heros and more likely to run towards trouble (assuming they were not the trouble in the first place) than away from it
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Goblin Squad Member
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Our characters however are heros/anti heros and more likely to run towards trouble (assuming they were not the trouble in the first place) than away from it
Yep. As I said, it would be nice if the game systems supported this. I think Andius's suggestion is a good starting point for how to do that.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The /assist has too much room for exploitation if you ask me. Granted putting it up and them breaking it by attacking the people you just pledged to assist would carry a hefty rep hit it is not the only exploit that comes to mind. A player on team speak could easily scout and report the defenders actions without appearing to do anything wrong that is just the simplest thing to come to mind.
Not to change the subject mind you.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Our characters however are heros/anti heros and more likely to run towards trouble (assuming they were not the trouble in the first place) than away from itYep. As I said, it would be nice if the game systems supported this. I think Andius's suggestion is a good starting point for how to do that.
The system already supports that. If you feel it is an imperative that you assist, just attack the person you feel is in the wrong. You will already have the criminal flag, just for being in the area. Yes you will shift chaotic for the criminal flag, and evil if you kill the attackers, but that is if they were not already flagged themselves. However if their attack was legitimate, and your interference not, then you will take the appropriate hits and shifts.
If you don't like either of those two options, you can always SAD the party and avoid all penalties. All you have to do is have that ability trained and slotted.
In most cases, as the Devs and others have implied, most people would probably mind their business and get out of the area.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Awesome inn full of patrons, boom everybody not part of the CC pops a criminal flag and you attack the nearest guy you don't know, no wait, you run out side with everybody else attack the incoming attackers only to be attacked from behind by the guys you did not know in the Inn.
Or you can just get out of dodge before you get attacked.
More likely the Outpost will be the point of attack and you will be out or range of the criminal flag. Just guessing.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Awesome inn full of patrons, boom everybody not part of the CC pops a criminal flag and you attack the nearest guy you don't know, no wait, you run out side with everybody else attack the incoming attackers only to be attacked from behind by the guys you did not know in the Inn.
Or you can just get out of dodge before you get attacked.
More likely the Outpost will be the point of attack and you will be out or range of the criminal flag. Just guessing.
Well I believe it was Stephen Cheney that said they were developing PFO / River Kingdoms to be like the "Wild West", so bar brawls would certainly fit that goal. Think of how fun that would be as well.
Some of my best fights were in the bar in Mos Eisely (sp.) in SWG, and Fallen Earth.
Actually the best assassination I have ever seen was in Fallen Earth when Iron Sights along with Invicta assassinated the leader of Iron Sights in the street, just outside if a neutral tavern. If I recall it correctly he was gunned down in the street and at the same time us girl friend, his only remaining ally, was executed in the bar. It was a brilliant coup d'état.
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Our characters however are heros/anti heros and more likely to run towards trouble (assuming they were not the trouble in the first place) than away from itYep. As I said, it would be nice if the game systems supported this. I think Andius's suggestion is a good starting point for how to do that.The system already supports that. If you feel it is an imperative that you assist, just attack the person you feel is in the wrong. You will already have the criminal flag, just for being in the area. Yes you will shift chaotic for the criminal flag, and evil if you kill the attackers, but that is if they were not already flagged themselves. However if their attack was legitimate, and your interference not, then you will take the appropriate hits and shifts.
If you don't like either of those two options, you can always SAD the party and avoid all penalties. All you have to do is have that ability trained and slotted.
That doesn't sound right at all. You're encouraging people to take penalties for helping people. The perverse twisted logic baffles me.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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The settlement and company that refuse to expel members who walk into taverns and initiate lethal combat will not be highly regarded by anybody with an opinion that matters.
You might not be mechanically prevented from fighting in the public house, but it can still be a bad idea in all circumstances.
Absolute bull.
1) What you meant was "The settlement and company that refuse to expel members who walk into taverns and initiate lethal combat will not be highly regarded by anybody with an opinion that I Decius Brutus think matters. "
2) If we are at war with someone and they have an Inn POI we will most certainly walk in and slaughter everyone shortly before we burn it to the ground to clear the area for our siege camp. Don't like it? Tough
The 'people with an opinion that matter' that I was referring to include all of the Factions from the Faction system, and the Common Folk from that system.
Basically, I was saying that breaking the rule of hospitality is a very negative Reputation act, one that should have a significant effect on your Companies' Reputations and a noticeable effect on your Settlement's Reputation.
All's fair in war- but don't expect to be able to just walk into a building controlled by a hostile person or group. "Break down the door and kill everybody" is different from "Walk in".
The settlement and company that refuse to expel members who walk into taverns and initiate lethal combat will not be highly regarded by anybody with an opinion that matters.
You might not be mechanically prevented from fighting in the public house, but it can still be a bad idea in all circumstances.
Absolute bull.
1) What you meant was "The settlement and company that refuse to expel members who walk into taverns and initiate lethal combat will not be highly regarded by anybody with an opinion that I Decius Brutus think matters. "
2) If we are at war with someone and they have an Inn POI we will most certainly walk in and slaughter everyone shortly before we burn it to the ground to clear the area for our siege camp. Don't like it? Tough
The 'people with an opinion that matter' that I was referring to include all of the Factions from the Faction system, and the Common Folk from that system.
Basically, I was saying that breaking the rule of hospitality is a very negative Reputation act, one that should have a significant effect on your Companies' Reputations and a noticeable effect on your Settlement's Reputation.
All's fair in war- but don't expect to be able to just walk into a building controlled by a hostile person or group. "Break down the door and kill everybody" is different from "Walk in".
The factions will have nothing to do with player run buildings, indeed one of the goblinworks people recently intimated they were no more than a way of getting people into PVP when new and would soon be superseded when those players moved out to player settlement.
Reputation hits will only occur if you kill in a way that would have incurred reputation hits anyway and only to the same extent. There is nothing intrinsically special about inns.
War is one example, others legitimate reasons for intiating combat are collecting a bounty, fulfilling an assassination contract, continuing a feud and killing criminally flagged players. Those other legitimate reasons for killing very much allow you to just walk in before you start killing.
(Note use of the word legitimate does not denote lacking in alignment or reputation hits necessarily I was using it to distinguish between killing people for meaningful reasons vs killing people for the lulz)
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Goblin Squad Member
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That doesn't sound right at all. You're encouraging people to take penalties for helping people. The perverse twisted logic baffles me.Our characters however are heros/anti heros and more likely to run towards trouble (assuming they were not the trouble in the first place) than away from itYep. As I said, it would be nice if the game systems supported this. I think Andius's suggestion is a good starting point for how to do that.The system already supports that. If you feel it is an imperative that you assist, just attack the person you feel is in the wrong. You will already have the criminal flag, just for being in the area. Yes you will shift chaotic for the criminal flag, and evil if you kill the attackers, but that is if they were not already flagged themselves. However if their attack was legitimate, and your interference not, then you will take the appropriate hits and shifts.
If you don't like either of those two options, you can always SAD the party and avoid all penalties. All you have to do is have that ability trained and slotted.
No, I'm suggesting that you accept the meaningful consequences of attacking someone that is not flagged as hostile towards you. If you are unwilling to do that, you can SAD the party, just like anyone else.
Were you expecting to have different rules for you and your company / settlement just because you are all supposedly looking out for the little guy?
Isn't taking an alignment shift and a reputation hit worth serving the community?
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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The factions will have nothing to do with player run buildings, indeed one of the goblinworks people recently intimated they were no more than a way of getting people into PVP when new and would soon be superseded when those players moved out to player settlement.Reputation hits will only occur if you kill in a way that would have incurred reputation hits anyway and only to the same extent. There is nothing intrinsically special about inns.
War is one example, others legitimate reasons for intiating combat are collecting a bounty, fulfilling an assassination contract, continuing a feud and killing criminally flagged players. Those other legitimate reasons for killing very much allow you to just walk in before you start killing.
(Note use of the word legitimate does not denote lacking in alignment or reputation hits necessarily I was using it to distinguish between killing people for meaningful reasons vs killing people for the lulz)
I expect that all of the Factions will offer protective services to PoI buildings similar to the ones they offer to settlements; protection in exchange for a downside like a DI cap.
I also expect that every tavern will prohibit murder inside its doors, and that the Reputation penalty for such a murder will be significantly higher than the penalty for murdering the same person just outside.
That expectation requires that there be some way to ask the controller of the building to expel the person in question, or a way to have a qualifying target removed from the inn forcibly; an inn should only be a safe haven if it has been designated as such by the owner, and if you object to the owner of the inn harboring bounty targets then it makes sense to declare a feud and burn it down.
The factions will have nothing to do with player run buildings, indeed one of the goblinworks people recently intimated they were no more than a way of getting people into PVP when new and would soon be superseded when those players moved out to player settlement.Reputation hits will only occur if you kill in a way that would have incurred reputation hits anyway and only to the same extent. There is nothing intrinsically special about inns.
War is one example, others legitimate reasons for intiating combat are collecting a bounty, fulfilling an assassination contract, continuing a feud and killing criminally flagged players. Those other legitimate reasons for killing very much allow you to just walk in before you start killing.
(Note use of the word legitimate does not denote lacking in alignment or reputation hits necessarily I was using it to distinguish between killing people for meaningful reasons vs killing people for the lulz)
I expect that all of the Factions will offer protective services to PoI buildings similar to the ones they offer to settlements; protection in exchange for a downside like a DI cap.
I also expect that every tavern will prohibit murder inside its doors, and that the Reputation penalty for such a murder will be significantly higher than the penalty for murdering the same person just outside.
That expectation requires that there be some way to ask the controller of the building to expel the person in question, or a way to have a qualifying target removed from the inn forcibly; an inn should only be a safe haven if it has been designated as such by the owner, and if you object to the owner of the inn harboring bounty targets then it makes sense to declare a feud and burn it down.
I believe for a POI built in settlement territory that it is settlement laws which will count. I also expect that POI's will work the same way as settlements when they are free standing and that corruption by people breaking laws will be rewarded by lowered DI so I wouldn't be to quick to assume what inn keepers may or may not do.
As to rep losses for killing someone *shrug* I have said all along that we will do what is efficient. If it is better for us alignment wise and reputation wise to declare feud and burn down your whole inn because we want one person inside we will do exactly that. The problem the owner has of course is that it is quite possible they aren't even online when this is going on in order to hear our demand for them to expel the one we are after.
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Goblin Squad Member
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On a more positive note...
As Steelwing has suggested before, don't rely on a mechanic to do for you what you can do for yourself as players. If you want your tavern to be a place viewed by most as a sanctuary - a place where all parties agree not to PvP while under your inn/tavern's roof - create a place so valuable to the community that people will respect your wishes. Make it valuable enough to the masses as a place of rest, safety, and communication that its benefits far outweigh any desire to cause trouble or the risk of losing those same benefits.
That, or keep a well skilled cadre of bouncers on hand.
On a more positive note...
As Nightwing has suggested before, don't rely on a mechanic to do for you what you can do for yourself as players. If you want your tavern to be a place viewed by most as a sanctuary - a place where all parties agree not to PvP while under your inn/tavern's roof - create a place so valuable to the community that people will respect your wishes. Make it valuable enough to the masses as a place of rest, safety, and communication that its benefits far outweigh any desire to cause trouble or the risk of losing those same benefits.
That, or keep a well skilled cadre of bouncers on hand.
Indeed....protect yourselves do not rely on a system because people will stamp all over that system
Serving a community is a LG act. Why is it so wrong to ask the developers to reflect that in the game instead of saying, "Welp, it's not a coded feature, so I guess I should take CE hits for it."
If you mean the vigilante thing I guess one reason is that you are not actually part of that community. I seem to remember for instance that Deacon Wulf said to Andius (when the latter stated he would deal with people he perceive as criminals in lands not his own) that if he did so in golgothan territory that they would regard it as a criminal act.
Some settlements or POI's will not want vigilante action in their territory and consider it criminal