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I hesitate to jump into this topic... but for what it's worth, I'm currently playing a rogue in a Skull & Shackles game, and I'm having a GREAT time playing one.Some Random Dude, I started this topic because the other major one right now asks a question I don't feel I can reasonably address while staying on topic. What possible method would I have of knowing whether Paizo has "given up" on the rogue?
I am though very interested to see what people think can be/want to be done to fix the issue without losing identity.
Ask that question of James Jacobs, the Creative Director and player of Merisel, the iconic Rogue in his Ask James Jacobs thread.
The "community" has not decided that there is such a thing as a "rogue issue". Just the usual crop of posters on any topic. I will say that the rogue has always been a more advanced class to play, it's not a "stupid damage" class the way most martials and arcane types are. If there is an issue, it's mainly the dual one of inferior play style and unreasonable expectations due to the fact that martial damage has gone through the roof compared to D20.
I think this is where people keep sidestepping the point, intentionally or not.
Yes, Rogues can be fun. Underpowered classes in general can be fun. My favorite class is the Monk. I have a lot of fun with Monks. I still think Monks are pretty underpowered.
Same with Rogues. Mechanics and fun are not always intertwined.
But fixing the mechanical deficiencies won't change the fun factor.
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What did monks give up to be able to pierce cold-iron and silver DR with ki strikes?
You know the answer to the question you ask.
I've repeated what "power creep" is twice. Here's a third time with a link.
As new expansions or updates are released, new game mechanics or effects are introduced, making it increasingly difficult for older content to remain in balance without changes. Usually, this means new content releases grow successively more powerful while older content becomes regressively outdated or relatively underpowered.
The change your referring to is not power creep. It did nothing to marginalize older content, and in fact upgraded Core.
I refer you to the reason we are on this silly tangent, which is Scavion's post regarding an archetype that would gain improved weapon powers yet give up nothing. Absolutely nothing. If that were printed in the ACG or a subsequent supplement, it *would* be power creep. Thus, the follow-up suggestion that he think of it in such a way that it trades out *something* so it's not power creep w.r.t the core rogue.
I get the sense I'm being trolled now, but I'll try to get the thread back on track to discuss what Paizo could do in a future supplement that is not power creep.
(Although in the eyes of some beholders who discount certain aspects of the rogue, they may very well consider giving up 5 skills for full BAB as power creep - it's in fact not a universal form of it)
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I hesitate to jump into this topic... but for what it's worth, I'm currently playing a rogue in a Skull & Shackles game, and I'm having a GREAT time playing one.
This rogue's totally a carnivalist running about the island with a dinosaur companion, isn't it?
As long as rogues can have a dinosaur familiar, they will be grossly overpowered.
(drum roll, waits for thread to finally end)
