So with the other builds Ive been working on reaching finalization, my brain has already started working on another one. This one, a high Dex stealthy assassin-type build.
Currently Im thinking Goblin Rogue with the Knife Master archetype, and considering dual-wielding kukris (not sure on this yet).
I wouldn't mind some advice on the stealthy aspect of the character, as Im not very up to speed on how Stealth works in PF other than it is a skill. Do you need cover? Improved cover? Can I be standing right in front of someone in a brightly lit empty room and them not see me if my Stealth beats their Perception? Are there feats that help with stealth, beyond just +X to stealth checks? Any suggested items? Suggested tactics?
I will be researching this more as I await answers, but I always like to get threads for my builds started first, to get the good and useful advice flowing.
Thanks in advance to all that contribute.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
RaizielDragon wrote: So with the other builds Ive been working on reaching finalization, my brain has already started working on another one. This one, a high Dex stealthy assassin-type build.
Currently Im thinking Goblin Rogue with the Knife Master archetype, and considering dual-wielding kukris (not sure on this yet).
I wouldn't mind some advice on the stealthy aspect of the character, as Im not very up to speed on how Stealth works in PF other than it is a skill. Do you need cover? Improved cover? Can I be standing right in front of someone in a brightly lit empty room and them not see me if my Stealth beats their Perception? Are there feats that help with stealth, beyond just +X to stealth checks? Any suggested items? Suggested tactics?
I will be researching this more as I await answers, but I always like to get threads for my builds started first, to get the good and useful advice flowing.
Thanks in advance to all that contribute.
Here's a thread (a bit old though) that discussed using stealth in combat.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lmop?Stealth-in-Combat-and-use-of-Surprise
Generally you use Bluff, and then any available cover/concealment was usable, albeit in a -10 penalty. Alternatively if you break line of sight, or if you're sniping (move at least 10 feet, -20 to check). So a smokestick (10 foot square) would suffice if you did everything else.
You are taking a hefty penalty in your skill checks and in actions (attack, bluff, move) as well. But it is doable.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
Hellcat Stealth allows you to use stealth while being observed with a penalty. A dip into the shadow dancer prestige class will also get you a similar ability. Can't remember off hand if they stack.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Nate Z wrote: Hellcat Stealth allows you to use stealth while being observed with a penalty. A dip into the shadow dancer prestige class will also get you a similar ability. Can't remember off hand if they stack. Hellcat Stealth requires 6 ranks of stealth and skill focus: stealth. But probably the best thing to you can take to cover that pesky "not while observed" clause.
And it's from the Cheliax, Empire of Devils sourcebook if you need to find it.
Best bet is to hope your GM plays stealth fast and loose.
Ok, so here is what I'm looking at so far as possibilities. Haven't nailed down any final details, but this would cover most of the build:
Traits: Color Thief: +2 trait Stealth, 2nd trait ???
Feats (1 needs to be cut):
Weapon Finesse (from Finesse Rogue)
Weapon Focus (from Weapon Training)
Two-Weapon Fighting (from Combat Trick)
Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
Shadow Strike
Hellcat Stealth
Skill Focus (Stealth)
Stealthy
Conceal Scent
Dampen Presence
Dodge
Agile Defense
Unarmored Specialist
Improved Unarmored Specialist
Talents (exactly 10):
Finesse Rogue
Combat Trick (Two-Weapon Fighting)
Weapon Training (Weapon Focus)
Fast Stealth
Hidden Flight
Powerful Sneak
Opportunist
Feat (any of the feats on the list above)
Deadly Sneak
Devastating Sneak
Quick question: Greater Sniper Goggles say they give the bonus when making a Sneak Attack at any range; I don't suppose that means they apply to melee now? I doubt it, but am hopeful.
Magic Items: Ring of Chameleon Power
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Well considering Agile Defense-Unarmored Specialist-Improved Unarmored Specialist are third party, I'd probably look at dropping those first.
Though I like the flavor of them. Can he live with the -2 ACP for Celestial Chainmail instead? Max +8 dex mod and AC of +9 (6 armor, 3 enchantment) and Fly 1/day. 22,400 gp though.
Since your idea seems to be geared around a lot of attacks...maybe Improved Critical?
Sniper Goggles/Improved are for ranged attacks. But nothing stopping you from throwing the odd knife while you are hidden.
Hurm...I would advise against the Powerful/Deadly Sneak line. Rogues already have the 2/3 BAB hit...you probably don't want another -2 on top of it. I suggest Bleeding Attack or Crippling Strike instead. If the rogue gets a full combo off, the total strength damage could conceivably incapacitate a non-str primary. And str-primaries will get annoyed. Stack with poison use mayhap? :)
Are third party elements not allowed? Frowned upon? Discouraged? Is it a game wide thing or just a personal thing?
More like a "check with your GM first" thing
If building a Goblin Rogue I'd play to it's strengths. The goblin FCB of +1 point of sneak attack during the suprise round is one such strength. There's a number of ways to always act in the suprise round (dip diviner wizard get an animal friend with the bodyguard archetype and the lookout feat or a really high perception score).
The bandit Archetype will allow you to make a full attack on your suprise round as of level 4 so getting quickdraw or alternatively the watching taldor trait and spring loaded wristsheaths will allow you to make a dagger full attack in the suprise round. Also there's a Rogue trait that allows you to treat everyone as flat footed during the suprise round.
Another amazing feature of Goblin is the ability to swap skilled out for a wooping +4 bonus to perception.
The bandit archetype ability lets you make a standard, a move, and a swift action, not actually a full round action of any type
Quote: Ambush (Ex)
At 4th level, a bandit becomes fully practiced in the art of ambushing. When she acts in the surprise round, she can take a move action, standard action, and swift action during the surprise round, not just a move or standard action.
This ability replaces uncanny dodge.
Oh, ok. Our group agreed that if it can be found on the SRD, then it is acceptable. It helps because it also usually includes errata that we might not be aware of if looking through books for things.
I was probably going to take the +1 point of sneak attack damage FCB. I feel like between Stealth and a high AC and Ref, I should have my defenses covered fairly well. Will and Fort may not be great, but that's just how it goes.
I don't really want to dip, but I did plan to pump Perception every chance I got.
I do have room for another trait, so that may be an idea. I do like the idea of him having spring-loaded wrist sheaths.
Is it a Rogue trait or a Rogue talent? I saw a talent that allowed you to treat enemies as flat-footed, even if they had already acted, during the surprise round. I assume that's what you are talking about. It's called Surprise Attack.
I would prefer keep the bonus to Stealth rather than swap it for a Perception bonus.
I wouldn't want to give up Uncanny Dodge, since I will be counting on my Dex and dodge bonuses for AC; if an opponent were able to get me flat-footed in some way, my AC would drop like a stone. Uncanny Dodge allowing me to keep my Dex bonus also lets me keep my dodge bonuses.
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