I'd just go 14/14/14/14/10/10 then put racial wherever you like.
Worst statblock ever.
As a monk Str is everything, wisdom, dex, con after that if it's cheap.
Attack bonus is god, your damage will be good...find anything that increases attack bonus. Dragon ferocity is great...go that way. Never use power attack, don't waste the feat.
Depends, for most monks strait up fist over 5th level is best. Before that Sansetsukon is best.
Specific builds like Hungry Ghost which benefits from crit Sansetsukon is best, higher crit combined with lifesurge for the same cost as AoMF which nets you 6 temp health with every hit at +5, crit healing, healing when stuff dies..makes for a solid character for destroying armies of demons.
Retraining is your friend. At 12th level...Abundant Step makes you very very good. Retrain whatever feats you have for the feat chain. Dimensional Savant + teamwork feat Outflank makes for some tasty attack bonus.
Race: Human or Oni Tiefiling (if your GM allows it) Armour of the Pit is a great feat for Tieflings.
Qingong abilities: Ki Leech or Hungry Ghost is what you need for Ki regen.
Barkskin is good also, take it over fall - you have cloudwalking. True strike can be OK if you need a grapple and don't care for high jump.
Restoration is awesome.
Shadowwalk can help out a lot if there is little other options for getting places.
Battlemind link is great if you have a DM that allows it and can manage it, it can be a pain.
The rest are mostly junk or you have better.
For gears.
Rings: Prot + Ki Mastery will make your Abundant Step cost 1.
Body: Monk's Robes
Belt: Belt of Strength + add dex and con when they get cheap for you
Boots: Cloudwalking or Speed with cloudwalking.
Chest: Unfettered Shirt in case something goes bad
Head: Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier
Hands: Gauntlets of the Giant Fist
Neck: Amulet of Mighty Fist
Headband: Wisdom
Shoulders: Cloak of Resistance always the best you can buy, cheap cheap protection
Wrist: Bracers of Armour only after it becomes cheap, buy a caster a Pearl of Power or a wand of Mage Armour.
Green Ioun Stones you can get two +1's to everything one morale, one competence.
Handy Haversack
Potions of See Invisibility is great when you need it. Gaseous Form is a great get out of jail free card. Potions are your friend and wands to boost you until you can afford it.
Something to enlarge you at later levels is very good. When you have Monk Robe's it's pretty amazing.
Did paizo ever rescind that errata with crane style?
NOPE!
PFS GMs rejoice
"this rules change was not made because of PFS"
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Best way to optimize a monk is to not play one.
As a monk Str is everything, wisdom, dex, con after that if it's cheap.
Attack bonus is god, your damage will be good...find anything that increases attack bonus. Dragon ferocity is great...go that way. Never use power attack, don't waste the feat.
I agree that attack bonus is god, but the best monk designs I have seen have reduced MAD by going dex/wis and taking Weapon Finesse/Agile Maneuvers and an agile amulet of mighty fists at the earliest opportunity.
I agree Power Attack is out, but I'd go Snake Style to maximise the number of attacks.
As a monk Str is everything, wisdom, dex, con after that if it's cheap.
Attack bonus is god, your damage will be good...find anything that increases attack bonus. Dragon ferocity is great...go that way. Never use power attack, don't waste the feat.
I agree that attack bonus is god, but the best monk designs I have seen have reduced MAD by going dex/wis and taking Weapon Finesse/Agile Maneuvers and an agile amulet of mighty fists at the earliest opportunity.
I agree Power Attack is out, but I'd go Snake Style to maximise the number of attacks.
Dragon style = str x 1.5 is so sexy.
You have lots of attacks. Getting more attacks that does minimum damage is weak. 3 feats and a -1 attack (weapon could be one more) = weak. Strength all in is the way to go. Wisdom helps a bit with armour, but you should have top armour from nearly the beginning. Dex is armour to a monk, reflex saves but lets face it monks saves are awesome.
With those weapon finesse you could have WF, with Agile Maneuvers you could have dragon style and a strength and a half to all damage at 5th level, Snake doesn't get going until 9th level and takes 3 feats while Dragon takes 2 feats.
Reduce the MAD by focusing on STR...everything else just has to be decent to good as long as you use mage armour. Keep up your cloak of resistance if one is worried about failing saves. Barkskin gives +5 AC 12th level negating some cost of the AoMF.
Depending on the stats, let's say 20 points power gaming with Tiefling.
Str 19
Dex 14
Con 13
Int 8
Wis 16
Chr 7
By 5th level he is attacking with typically a +2 belt of strength and a AoMF+1. Str = 22
+3 base +1 WF + 6 Str + 1 AoMF= 2 attacks @ +11 ignoring difficult terrain/friendlies when charging and +2 stuns, paralyze and sleep. Doing 1D8 + 9 str + 1 AoMF. Going with AC of 10 + 4NA + 1 RoP, +2 Dex, +3 Wis, + 1 Monk + 4 Mage Armour = 25 AC.
Near the same as the Sword and board with full plate +1 and a large shield +1, +1 RoP, +1 AoNA about 26 by this point. Or above a 2 hander with 23 AC.
Going with Snake gets you not much until level 9 when you get a AOO when missed. Charge, AC+4 and get missed then swing, then full attack.
By 12th level you should rarely get attack but by being charged with Dimensional line of feats. 3 levels where you might shine, damage will be weaker though. And have few feats to sacrifice to get the Dimensional line of feats, chewing into critical components of making the character work.
Lets say we reverse the scores with dex , gaining you an extra 2 AC, but your attacks will at -2 (weapon and feat) and your damage would be 1D8 + 6 vs 1d8 +10.
Dragon style = str x 1.5 is so sexy.
You have lots of attacks. Getting more attacks that does minimum damage is weak.
Agile amulet makes it pretty strong, actually - twice as many attacks for a little less damage per attack is a pretty good trade-off, and on top of that you have better AC, and as good or better chance of landing a successful stunning fist. On the converse, making a strength-focussed monk emphasises MADness, giving you a poor AC and likely poorer abilities. Looking at your example, you have a mountain of muscle who is dim as a post with the social skills of a dead slug. Hardly the picture of an enlightened saffron-robed mystic, but each to his own.
I've seen a lot of monk builds on the boards, and in general the best all-round "conventional" ones are dex-focussed.
Maybe a thread in general discussion where everyone hates on the errata will get it rescinded? If everyone hates it (and I've never seen anyone who supports it), then paizo literally isn't doing its job.
P.S. Paizo, your job is to make a balanced, enjoyable game. In case you've forgotten.
The problem was that Crane Style itself wasn't broken as was - once you got it by normal means most enemies had multiple attacks and the monk was weak enough that it made a lot of sense. The problem was the Master of Many Styles was the PERFECT class for dipping, and any melee class with a hand free dipped two levels so that they had Crane Wing by 3rd level where it WAS a problem because most enemies had only one attack.
Nerfing Crane Style was not the answer, the thing that needed nerfing was the MoMS and it's dipability.
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let me introduce you to... the judo monk.
http://tenletter.wordpress.com/2012/03/27/pathfinder-the-judo-master/
after level 12s, grab dirty trick for blinding if and sunder, possibly another of your choice if you wish. This guy is MEAN.
i made this guy only i moved things around for dirty trick instead of grapple, and added a level of fighter for shatter defenses +madeusas wrath.
blind, trip, vicious stomp, greater trip, normal attacks, madusas wrath, it was a ton of damage. ki throw is a must for making the build work to 20
"what kind of monk?" Well, I'm looking to make the best possible unarmed melee monk possible.
i think the best monk you can play is a Sohei, you can wear armor and flurry, you only get a d6 unarmed damage, but you still get the benefit of Monastic Legacy (if you wanted to multiclass/presitge) and a monks robe, but i haven't got a solid ruling on that, Sohei lets you ignore wisdom as a stat and focus on strength dex and con, basically making you a fighter with a much better save array.
now we all know how much everyone hates monks that dont look like monks, but as an archer and a melee combatant i think sohei is the best you can get. what monk doesnt want the brawling armor enchant an ability to buff your enhancement bonus to your fists, weapon training, the ability to flurry with any weapon in the game AND SAD stats.
Oh MONK IDEA!
Monk 1/Druid 19
Best monk!
That one is pretty good, but I think Half-Elf Monk 1/Empyreal Sorc 19 with Paragon Surge is better.Oh MONK IDEA!
Monk 1/Druid 19
Best monk!
Can you explain this?
Can you explain this?That one is pretty good, but I think Half-Elf Monk 1/Empyreal Sorc 19 with Paragon Surge is better.Oh MONK IDEA!
Monk 1/Druid 19
Best monk!
Emypreal Sorcerer uses Wisdom as a casting stat. Monks get Wisdom to AC. Paragon Surge lets the Sorc cast a 3rd level spell to gain the Feat Expanded Arcana, which lets him learn new spells (temporarily). Basically, it gives the Sorcerer nearly limitless versatility.
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Can you explain this?That one is pretty good, but I think Half-Elf Monk 1/Empyreal Sorc 19 with Paragon Surge is better.Oh MONK IDEA!
Monk 1/Druid 19
Best monk!
Monk for Wis to AC. Empyreal Sorc for Wis-based casting. Half-elf for access to Paragon Surge. You take Eldritch Heritage:Arcane to allow Paragon Surge give you Improved Eldritch Heritage: Arcane for access to ANY spell on the Sorcerer/Wizard list you don't have.
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Seems most recommendation above involve taking a dip in monk rather than actually building a monk to kick ass which has been requested. Here's my attempt.
I would recommend the Bonk.
Race:the tielfing/Oni give +2str/+2wis and -2Cha(dump start anyway.
Additionally take fiendish sprinter (synergises well with dragon style -because it add +10ft to charge/run/withdrw and dragon style allows you to igniore difficult terrain and other PCs when charge/run/withdraw));
Spell Ability = alter self allows another way to add +2str(or+2dex).
Prehensile handy way to grab potion etc when needed.
Traits:
Barbarian of the society (+3 round rage)
Quain martial artist (+1 dam UA)
1st level take Barbarian (urban - controlled rage seems more compatible with zen-like focus concept). Also no AC loss.
PLUS crowd control gives +1att/AC if >1 opponent near.
and the additional hp helpful at low level.
alternatively take level in bloodrager celestial - normal rage/bloodrage but now UA/melee treated as good aligned and do +1d6 versus evil outsiders - virtually holy UA at 1st level - overcomes major problem for monk vs outsider DR - too good - maybe nerfed when Advanced classes finalised?
Next we go into Martial artist (can be any alignment). By 6th level - barb1/monk5 the character if immune to fatigue meaning he can rage from round to round as needed. also he has Exploit Weakness a mean to overcome Dr but also importantly add +2Att.
feats.
1st focus UA
3rd Dragon style
5th Dragon Ferocity
7th specialised UA
9th Power attack
11th touch Serenity
13th Greater specialisation
monk feats imp grapple/trip/medusa - note increased str adds to CMB as does Exploit weakness.
now looking at the character at 6th level with +2str belt and +1 str level (based on OP character stats) means str 22 (26 raging) and AMOF +1.
when raging
ATT +14/+14/+9 or +16/+16/+11 if exploit weakness and ignores all DR
(also alter self can add +2str if required for 6mins/day)
Dam 1d8+18/1d8+14/1d6+14 not bad for 6th leveller without PA.
Next level with see his damage increase by another +2dam/attack for specilasation and at 9th PA will add +6dam/attack.
Plus 6/day stun attack.
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I understand why they did it, but obviously that doesn't mean they're right.
Exactly my point. They "fixed" the wrong thing.
Seems most recommendation above involve taking a dip in monk rather than actually building a monk to kick ass which has been requested.
There is a REASON for this...
So, the first thing you're thinking is "what kind of monk?" Well, I'm looking to make the best possible unarmed melee monk possible.
Be a Sohei, so you have martial weapon proficiency. Take the Sorceror archetype that lets you cast with WIS. Take Eldritch Knight after that if you really want BAB bonuses.
So I went a head and built out that Halfling Monk idea I had earlier. Here's the result: Davkas Steelfist.
I kind of want to rename the feat Risky Striker to Cock-Knocker, as that's really what you're doing.
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So I went a head and built out that Halfling Monk idea I had earlier. Here's the result: Davkas Steelfist.
I kind of want to rename the feat Risky Striker to Cock-Knocker, as that's really what you're doing.
Since you are small, your base damage on your unarmed strike should be a d8 instead of a d10. Also, based on This faq, I don't think Close Combatant counts as weapon training, so no Gloves of Dueling if you took brawler.
Since you are small, your base damage on your unarmed strike should be a d8 instead of a d10. Also, based on This faq, I don't think Close Combatant counts as weapon training, so no Gloves of Dueling if you took brawler.So I went a head and built out that Halfling Monk idea I had earlier. Here's the result: Davkas Steelfist.
I kind of want to rename the feat Risky Striker to Cock-Knocker, as that's really what you're doing.
Oops, forgot about the size, good point, though it doesn't affect him too much.
Technically, you may be right on the Gloves of Dueling (which results in a loss of +2 to hit and +2 on damage), but this FAQ may allow otherwise. While Close Combat doesn't say weapon training, it does restrict it to the close weapon group. It's not unreasonable to allow Gloves of Dueling to function in this way.
However, if it doesn't function it frees up 15,000 gp to use elsewhere. One aspect that I didn't translate over from the initial idea is using Clockwork Prostheses from Magical Marketplace, and that's largely because I don't own the book myself.
If I owned it, I'd use it in the Halfling Monk example, which would let him trade in the Amulet of Mighty Fist for an Amulet of Natural Armor, and it gives him cheaper weapon enhancement.
Trading in the Gloves and the AoMF nets 31,000 gp to spend on buying and enhancing a Clockwork Prostheses. I don't know how much an arm costs, but it costs 18,000 gp for a +3 enhancement, leaving 13,000 for the arm and other things, like an Amulet of Natural Armor, or a Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier.
Best way to optimize a monk is to not play one.
Yup.
I would use Deliquescent Gloves instead. Same bonus to damage as the gloves of dueling, protection when punching oozes, and half the cost. Problem is you do miss the the + 2 to hit.
I'd rather take the +2 to hit, he's got enough damage as it is.
I would use Deliquescent Gloves instead. Same bonus to damage as the gloves of dueling, protection when punching oozes, and half the cost. Problem is you do miss the the + 2 to hit.
+2 to hit is worth +4 to damage.
I know, that is the weak point, but if you don't have weapon training, then the +2 to hit isn't an option.
I agree, which sucks, but there you go.