Liches as mooks (very minor shadows of the gallowspire spoilers)

[Mathius]

There is an encounter in the in the catacombs where several cultist sacrifice themselves and rise as greater shadows to drive off the PCs and another that takes place in a vault where several that are not involved with the adventure keep their phylacteries.

I do not care the encounter in vault at all but I want the power the lich to mean something to the PCs. I also do not like incorporable undead since they are generally not fun in our game.

This encounter already has 3 stone golems and 4 juju zombies that are melee beasts. This encounter does not need any more melee but it does not have enough targets yet. I was thinking of using 8 CR 8 liches or 6 CR 9 liches as the mooks in this encounter.

They work well because spellcasting allows them to spread out, hit many targets and hit hard enough their damage will not ignored while also giving them a low probability removing a PC with a single touch attack. Also electric immunity also negates the sorcs favorite new spell. Lastly, lich help any caster cast better.

The problem is that one never sees liches that are only 7th level casters. I was think the ritual would allow the cultist to steal lichdom temporarily from the phylacteries the cult was guarding but have the weakness that they would have to be close them to stay a lich. Since the rejuvenation power will mean little I was think of replacing that with something else. I want targeting the phylacteries to be a reasonable choice that the party can see with a skill check but not so good that it is the obvious choice to make. I know that my party cleric has shatter memorized and might have it twice so letting use that on them could be fun.

Ideas I have has so far.
1. Each phylactery supports 2 liches and they have shield other going both ways instead rejuvination

2. The Phylacteries create a spread that the new liches must stay with in of X feet. If the lich is not in this aura at the start of his turn he must make a will save DC X or be destroyed. Not sure how hard I want this save to be. This the mechanic that will pop them if the phylacteries are destroyed. Start with a low DC that gets harder by 5 each consecutive round and give a penalty if destroyed on top of that?

3. Maybe a way to use the other guys spells to add metamagic to your spells?

Questions
1. How far should the aura go?
2. What class would be best for this?
3. should I use 8 7th caster, 8 6th level full WBL casters, 6 8th level casters, or 6 7th level full WBL casters.
4. Other then just being hardness 20 with 40 hp what how else should they be protected?

[Mathius]

Just had and idea for protecting the Ps.

Put them inside a the stone golems with a hole large enough for line of effect to travel through. Let the golem act like a tower shield along 3 edges for P. Also makes the AC of the P go from 9 to 13.

Any way to cast make whole as a standard action?

[Mojorat]

the problem with cl 7 litches is that, from a story point of view they make no sense. they are incapable of doing anything needed to become a litch. For players this may get them ideas for later if you allow for Litches that week.

If yuou want undead spellcasters at cr 8 or 9 try the Zombie lord or skeletal champion templates. You can somehow tie them to the phylacteries if you want for theme.

[Sarcasmancer]

Yeah I would use these guys as "lesser liches".

[Vivianne Laflamme]

You can always just not give these liches phylacteries, but still use the lich template.

[Imbicatus]

Instead of using the Lich template, you can just use a different one that doesn't have as high of a CR. It would be really dramatic if the cultists complete the ritual just as the PCs run in, and the cultists heads start spinning and then fly off their bodies as they become penanggalens.

[Mathius]

Thanks for the input

That is why I was thinking of having the ritual let the cultist tie into the power of real phylacteries instead of being true liches themselves. I was hoping the to include the idea lich phylactery vault with out the lame encounter the AP has. If I use a different template I would still want to tie it to the phylacteries somehow.

Lich offers a bump to caster class stats, an elemental immunity, and a scary touch attack.

Skeletal champion only has an immunity but the extra level on the caster might make for the lack stat.

the penanggalens is a very cool visual and it offers nice stat bumps for casters plus others. However I am not at all sure it could cast while just a head. It would lend itself to sorc for eshrew components feat. It also lacks an immunity. Whither is hard to use on a caster.

If I were to go with a skeletal champion how would you guys use the phylacteries mechanically?

[Majuba]

Mathius wrote:

The problem is that one never sees liches that are only 7th level casters.

I just wanted to make sure you saw this in the lich template:

Bestiary-PRD wrote:

Each lich must create its own phylactery by using the Craft Wondrous Item feat. The character must be able to cast spells and have a caster level of 11th or higher. The phylactery costs 120,000 gp to create and has a caster level equal to that of its creator at the time of creation.

I like the ideas! I'm not sure there's a good solution to keeping the fear of the lich name and using low-level liches.

"Phylactery Storage" on the door + skeletal champion sorcerers might inspire the fear w/out breaking your mold.

[Mathius]

Actually i did miss the caster level part and have door with that label near by. The champions will work. Lich might have been over powered anyway.

[Kagehiro]

Some sort of lich-spawned lesser lich brood? I just had a thought of a phylactery acting like a router for several lesser ones all at once; a community phylactery, I suppose. Cherry-pick some lich features, downgrade them, then slap them on a coven of undead caster sorts. Or not caster sorts. The assumption (by me, at least) is that such a thing would involve a Lich cutting corners with a phylactery to create incomplete liches as apprentices/underlings.

[Starbuck_II]

Mathius wrote:

This encounter already has 3 stone golems and 4 juju zombies that are melee beasts. This encounter does not need any more melee but it does not have enough targets yet. I was thinking of using 8 CR 8 liches or 6 CR 9 liches as the mooks in this encounter.

The problem is that one never sees liches that are only 7th level casters.

In 3.5, you could get Practiced Spellcaster. But that would only help if HD was 11 or higher such as a level 14 Ranger (Caster 7 +4=11).

Ranger liches!

There is a way: Bead of Karma is needed to become Lich, you can lose your caster after and still be a lich.

So level 7 Liches are possible.
You need them to be a Divine caster or UMD to count as a Divine caster.

[Doomed Hero]

You know what the best thing about this idea is?

Recurring villains.

Think of the cost of a Liching ritual and making a phylactery. Now, what if your BBEG liched a few lower level casters, the most loyal of his cultists or disciples, or whatever, to be immortal minions. A very high level wizard could foot the bill and do the crafting, and then just perform the ritual on someone else.

Then the BBEG hangs onto the phylacteries to protect them, and to ensure loyalty.

Now, your PCs can kill the "lesser liches", and they'll come back. The PCs don't even have to know they are fighting liches. They'll figure it out later.

Essentially what we are talking about are Ringwraiths. Superbadass minions that refuse to stay dead.

It's a fantastic idea.

[Mathius]

I do really like that idea. Imagine if the a full lich's phylactery is used a focus for the ritual and the forces the lessor creature's soul into the his phylactery. Use the skeletal champion template but add in a dominated by the lich part and add rejuvenation to the minions.

The lich can use his phylactery to scry on any of his minions maybe even cast range touch spells on them with it.

Still this would work better with lich as the BBEG so I am going with champions.

[The Beard]

If something has lich mooks then odds are any intelligent party is going to turn their asses right around and get the eff out of dodge.

[Sarcasmancer]

Kagehiro wrote:

I just had a thought of a phylactery acting like a router for several lesser ones all at once

LOL @ concept of negative energy "router". Great image