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It makes sense that if you drink a potion, expend wand charges, throw an alchemist fire, or shoot arrows that those are spent, and you need to buy more.
I know logical consistency is broken in Society rules for a number of good reasons, but what about more permanent items?
For example, in a previous society game, our mission required stealth, so my character took out his tent, tore it into strips, and had the party bind them to their feet in order to muffle their foot falls.
Do I still have a tent in the next gaming scenario I play in, or do I need to but a new one?
In short where, specifically, does the disconnect between an expendable item and a permanent item come into play?
Just like a destroyed weapon, I'd rule you'd have to have access to Make Whole in order to keep your tent.
Mending might be more appropriate, depending on what you do to it.
That said, lots of time to mend a tent through any means, and a tent isn't usually something you 'consume'. Though I would advise against setting the thing on fire and asking to have it back...(edit: or eating it!)
Only a 20th level caster can cast Mending on a tent.
My gosh, what was your tent made of? Raw Magic-Itemium?
Or am I missing something really obvious...
Mending is 1 lb per level.
Tents are 20 lbs.
So a 20th level caster would be needed to repair the tent with the cantrip.
Make Whole would likely be a better option.
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I only just found out about the inventory tracking sheet today, at an event, when the GM said we all needed them. At a glance, I thought it was just for ammo, alchemical items, charged items, and other expendables.
I'm 5 games in and have changed all kinds of stuff equipment wise all throughout. Now I'm not sure what to do.
How does one even track permanent items on there? The layout doesn't make much sense to me.
(And I have a small tent, from Ultimate Equipment, since I'm a halfling.)
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Don't try the usual pedantic reading of the rules. They are not that tightly written and are not meant to be read that way.
If the tent is over 20 gp it goes on the sheet. In such an odd event you would write "destroyed" next to it or something. Just wing it. If the intent is there its close enough for state work.
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The standard Inventory Tracking Sheet is somewhat simple.
_____ITEM________ __COST__ [Bought] [Sold] [Expended]
Item - The name of the Item
Cost - Cost of Item. Note that Items under 25g can be ignored in the Tracking Sheet.
Bought - Which Scenario of the the Character the item was bought in. So if the +1 Dagger was bought with the 7th Scenario played by So-and-so Rogue, you write in 7 in the Box underneath Bought.
Sold - Which Scenario of the the Character the item was sold in. So if the Scroll of Feather Fall was sold after with the 3rd Scenario played by Such-and-Such Wizard, you write in 3 in the Box underneath Sold.
Expended - Which Scenario of the the Character the item was used in. So if a Potion of Fly was used during the 28th Scenario played by This-and-that Fighter, you write in 28 in the Box underneath Expended.
You can write which scenario order the character played in on the Top Right Corner of each chronicle sheet (the rectangular box).
Hope this helps.
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Here is a copy of one of my tracking sheets as an example. (printed 2:1)
Ravingdork: Since you weren't using the ITS I presume you were tracking all your purchases on your chronicle sheets? Just transcribe them over.
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I only just found out about the inventory tracking sheet today, at an event, when the GM said we all needed them. At a glance, I thought it was just for ammo, alchemical items, charged items, and other expendables.
You might want to download the Season 5 Guide to Organized Play. A lot has changed since Season 4.
Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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Since you are talking about swapping stuff around all the time, and a reset so that everything is balanced, am I correct in assuming that what you have been doing is just totalling up all your money earned, reducing it by the price of any expendables, and then just starting play with that amount of gear? (without worrying about if it was the same gear you had last time?)
As far as your gear is concerned, whatever you had at the end of your last adventure, minus anything you sold (for half the price you payed for it) plus anything you bought, is what you start the next adventure with.
So if you tore up your tent to make boots, then unless you got it repaired, you did not have your tent at the end of your adventure, and you do not have it at the start of your next adventure.
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Alright. I think I have enough info to set things right. I've only had 5 organized sessions over the course of THREE YEARS, so rules getting changed and new things being implemented might have helped instigate my confusion. Among other things, I was told this pastweekend that my group, Lantern Lodge, was defunct...
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But I don't take any penalties for switching since it was forced, right?
Do I need to give up my faction trait as well?
You do not have to give up the trait, I don't believe...I'll dig into that.
You do not take any penalties for the forced change of faction from Shadow or Lantern Lodge. They grant a one time free faction change for the disappearing factions.
EDIT:The wolf is right, no need to give up the trait from your faction.
The tracking sheets came into being starting this past GenCon at the start of season 5.
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But if you've only played 5 games, it should be super easy to just put everything you have on one sheet. It will make life easier for you, and any GMs that decide to audit you.
So I have to have a record of everything I've EVER bought, sold, or acquired, whether or not I still have it, and the specific games I came to have it (and lost it if the case may be)? One sheet or not, that seems like a royal pain in the butt.
My dislike for Organized Play only continues to grow. Who thought of that anyway? It's worse than tracking encumbrance now, or cross-class skill ranks in 3.0. I mean, who even enjoys that?
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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One sheet or not, that seems like a royal pain in the butt.
You'd rather trust hundreds of thousands of people to get the math right when transactions consist solely of writing down a new final gp total on your character sheet?
It's worse than tracking encumbrance. I mean, who even does that?
Every legal PC? Or at the very least, every legal arcane caster or armored Finesse martial?
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But if you've only played 5 games, it should be super easy to just put everything you have on one sheet. It will make life easier for you, and any GMs that decide to audit you.So I have to have a record of everything I've EVER bought, sold, or acquired, whether or not I still have it, and the specific games I came to have it (and lost it if the case may be)? One sheet or not, that seems like a royal pain in the butt.
My dislike for Organized Play only continues to grow. Who thought of that anyway? It's worse than tracking encumbrance now, or cross-class skill ranks in 3.0. I mean, who even enjoys that?
You've always had to track individual purchases and sales on your chronicles sheets. That's what the "Items Bought" and "Items Sold" areas where for.
This just centralizes everything.
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But if you've only played 5 games, it should be super easy to just put everything you have on one sheet. It will make life easier for you, and any GMs that decide to audit you.So I have to have a record of everything I've EVER bought, sold, or acquired, whether or not I still have it, and the specific games I came to have it (and lost it if the case may be)? One sheet or not, that seems like a royal pain in the butt.
My dislike for Organized Play only continues to grow. Who thought of that anyway? It's worse than tracking encumbrance. I mean, who even does that?
You're supposed to record everything you buy from the get go. This is just one sheet to allow the records to be all in one place, rather than broken down on chronicle sheets. Again, you do not have to retroactively do this, but all future purchases for a character should be recorded on an Inventory Tracking Sheet. It sounds like a hassle at first, but it actually helps to keep things organized, rather than having to thumb through multiple chronicle sheets to find out when, or if, something was actually purchased or used up.
Give it a try, you might be surprised at how it blends in to the normal character records.
One sheet or not, that seems like a royal pain in the butt.
Paperwork is the immortal foe of organized play, dontcha' know.
That said, depending on who your with, some people are more strict or lenient about it.
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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You have always had to track everything you ever bought, sold, or used, along with what game you got it on. That has been true pretty much forever. It's just that before you had to do it on that games sheet.
If you do it as you go, it is super easy. (Unless you are an alchemist or a gunslinger :) )
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You've always had to track individual purchases and sales on your chronicles sheets. That's what the "Items Bought" and "Items Sold" areas where for.
This just centralizes everything.
Really? In every organized event I've ever played in, it was always "I would like to buy/sell [x]" to which the GM of the day would respond "okay." It's all verbal. No recorded checks or balances at all.
Why would I bother writing it down anywhere but my character sheet if the official GMs* are too lazy to even sign off on it on the chronicle sheet?
The whole system, in my experience at least, is damned sloppy. EDIT: Are rather those who run it, are.
Also, I use my own character sheets and track everything on there to the best of my ability. To date I've keep chronicle sheets on hand as little more than proof that I leveled up to where I am and for magic item purchase options.
* I use this team loosely as most of them are FAR less competent than I in the GMing department.
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Why would I bother writing it down anywhere but my character sheet if the official GMs* are too lazy to even sign off on it on the chronicle sheet?
Ok, first off, official DM is a bit of a misnomer. Anyone with a PFS number can DM. There are no qualifications what so ever.
Secondly, for a while you were supposed to fill out the sheet and then have it signed.. no one was doing that. So you can buy things in between sessions.
Thirdly on the chronicle sheet there is space for "stuff bought, gold spent" etc. He probably thought it was self explanatory.
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Every question that has been asked in this thread can be answered by downloading and reading the most recent copy of the Guide to Organized Play. For someone who focuses so heavily on the RAW in any Rules Forum thread I've seen you post in, I'm blown away that simply reading the current rules never occured to you.
Most GMs would not put up with the dissertation length threads that RD likes to generate out of the most niggling rules issues.
For what its worth, they're actually some of my favorites.
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I have read all of the Pathfinder Society player documents found here. My confusion is not for lack of reading.
LazarX, I don't bend nearly as many rules as people seem to believe (and I've never been known to run a money scheme). That being said, I generally don't prefer Society play and probably wouldn't do it at all if it didn't help me meet a lot of people with similar interests.
Are you that apprehensive because you wouldn't trust a clone of yourself at the table?
No. I just expect people playing (and hosting) something as rigid as a Society Game to follow the rules.
If anything, the games I participated in this past weekend were FAR less rigid than my home games.
I would also like to apologize for my "sloppy" comment above, as it isn't really fair. Of the four games I participated in this weekend, I had one great GM, two okay GMs, and one really poor GM--so, pretty much ran the entire gamut. None of them really followed the Society rules very closely from what I can tell, however (though I admit I'm just stumbling through them myself).
The great GM was easy to hear, well-spoken, demonstrated clear knowledge of the rules (only confusing take 10 with take 20), listed to the players desires, and got us through the game quickly and efficiently.
The okay GMs demonstrated less understanding of the rules, making frequent mistakes, but they were often quick and efficient, making fair rulings to keep things fun and light-hearted. I gleefully watched one such GM totally shut down one annoying player (B) who insisted on hogging the limelight with his clever plans, simply ignoring him if it wasn't his turn. It wasn't until the obnoxious player interrupted player A's turn to tell A what to do with HIS character (the gal!) that the GM shut him up then gently asked A what is was HE wanted to do.
The poor GM demonstrated almost no knowledge of the rules, frequently making mistakes, failed to clearly communicate much of anything about the mission, was too lazy and/or flustered to keep track of basics (such as initiative) and tried to rush the game, actually resulting in slowing it down. We the players essentially were forced to run the game ourselves with the GM simply giving us a vague outline and naming the monsters (which we would then have to look up ourselves since said GM had NO BOOKS WHATSOEVER).
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The poor GM demonstrated almost no knowledge of the rules, frequently making mistakes, failed to clearly communicate much of anything about the mission, was too lazy and/or flustered to keep track of basics (such as initiative) and tried to rush the game, actually resulting in slowing it down. We the players essentially were forced to run the game ourselves with the GM simply giving us a vague outline and naming the monsters (which we would then have to look up ourselves since said GM had NO BOOKS WHATSOEVER).
It's one thing for a GM to be a bit out of their depth, it's quite another for them to not even put the effort in (no books!). If I were you, I would e-mail my local regional coordinator about this.
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I might have, but he said he came in as the GM at the last minute to help fill the tables. He had originally arrived intending to play as a player.
I didn't bring my books either as a player. Can't fault him for being unprepared for the wrong thing.
I had played under him in 2012 too though. He hasn't improved. You'd think he would after two years.
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I might have, but he said he came in as the GM at the last minute to help fill the tables. He had originally arrived intending to play as a player.
I didn't bring my books either as a player. Can't fault him for being unprepared for the wrong thing.
I had played under him in 2012 too though. He hasn't improved. You'd think he would after two years.
At that point, even though he was a last minute fill-in, it might be worth it to let the coordinator know, so he doesn't use him as a fill-in again.
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I have read all of the Pathfinder Society player documents found here. My confusion is not for lack of reading.
That's fine. I think I was in a bit of a mood the other day at work, and it bled over. To go back to your earlier questions, nothing about a character's inventory "resets." If you drink a potion, it's gone. If you tear your tent into strips, you start the next session with a torn up tent. I know at the end of sessions I just pay the gold to replace the consumables I've expended, but as far as the ITS is concerned, it's a brand new potion of fly that is supposed to get its own line item entry. For characters that use a lot of consumables, it really can turn into pages of extra work.
As for who's idea this was, you can blame the lazy or flat out unscrupulous players who buy a potion once and then use it every session without ever marking it off or paying for it again. The ITS was supposed to be a way for a GM to (more?) quickly audit to make sure the potions/wands/etc that were being used were actually being expended. I don't know how successful it's been, but I know that it hasn't helped me a bit. I was already keeping track of whether I'd replaced items I'd used, but now I have to keep track of in what scenarios I actually used the item in question instead of just whether I paid to replace it. And since it's no longer part of the chronicle sheet, it's just more piece of dead tree to have to carry around.
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Last night we encountered a Xorn. It had information we needed, and it said it was hungry (and regular gold coins were not going to be enough to make it friendly). We all looked at our ITSs for something to feed it, and I realized that during my 2nd game (23 sessions ago) I had purchased a Noble's Outfit plus 100gp of assorted jewelry to go with it. I showed the GM, he had me check the box that said "Expended", the Xorn was happy, and we went on our way.
I imagine that tearing up a tent, with no means to repair it by the end of the scenario, would be no different.