Have a concept for a tinkering gnomish gun mage who will eventually craft constructs. So, the question becomes what exactly happens when I use craft construct in conjunction with mythic crafter?
Does the construct gain 1/2 its CR in mythic rank per monster creation rules? How are the abilities chosen? Can I custom choose or am I subject to the DMs whim? (Path-wise champion or guardian seem appropriate)
Furthermore, could one craft a legendary construct via the Legendary Item universal path ability?
"Legendary items are always non-consumable magic items, and are typically magic weapons, magic armor, or magic items that take up an item slot (though there are a few legendary items that don't take up slots). Even vehicles and siege weapons can become legendary items."
Although certainly not typical it doesnt appear to be forbidden. Would said construct have both mythic rank and legendary rank? (Mmm..... artifact golem....) If given intelligent as a legendary ability, would it gain feats? (head explodes)
As you can see... the ambiguity is making my head swirl. Any help or clarity would be appreciated.
As far as I know, you cant just turn regular constructs mythic. There ARE a few mythic constructs (namely, the COLLOSI!). So, as far as "RAW" goes (if you can even speak of RAW here), you dont naturally add a mythic rank to your creations unless they are a mythic-specific construct. There are (as far as I know) no rules for upgrading regular constructs to mythic. And as far as I know, onli collosi have mythic ranks.
If your interested, he can check out my guide:
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2q7je&page=1?williamoaks-guide-to-construct -crafting
Currently experimenting in a game to update it.
One big difficulty with construct crafting is that it's a subsystem (construct crafting) within a subsystem (crafting in general) to which paizo pays VERY little attention. And thus, it is very vague/poorly develloped.
We are DEFINITLY in houserule territory. I'll take a while to reflect on it and come back to you.
Edit: if you want to be a construct-crafter, AVOID THE SPELLSLINGER LIKE THE PLAGUE! I'm sorry, but the fact you have 4 (yes 4) opposition schools means that each spell in an opposition school will increase the craft DCs by +4 (as well as a number of +5s for each spell that you dont know/are on the divine list, like ANIMATE OBJECTS! Frustrating stuff)
Ok, I've had some time to think, and I have the following answers:
1) Does the construct gain 1/2 its CR in mythic rank per monster creation rules?
Nope, this feat only mentions pre-existing mythic items. No free power boost, sorry. However, this feats does let you build a collosus.
2) How are the abilities chosen? Can I custom choose or am I subject to the DMs whim? (Path-wise champion or guardian seem appropriate);
With all crafting (and construct crafting in particular) you are ALWAYS subject to the GM's whims. Do not make him want to ban crafting altogether. The rules on actual mythic stuff should be in the monster creation rules, though the GM has no obligation to allow custom constructs.
3) Furthermore, could one craft a legendary construct via the Legendary Item universal path ability?
Iffy. They only specifically mentioin armor/weapons/wondrous items, but leave it vague enough that constructs MIGHT be possible (though it's up to the GM).
4) If given intelligent as a legendary ability, would it gain feats? (head explodes)
There already exist options to make constructs intelligent, which gives them feats, so yes. But not mythic feats normally.
To sum up, you will ALWAYS be dependent on your GM's whims. It's your GM you've got to discus this with (not us) because they can forbid ANYTHING and construct crafting is one of those things that are often forbidden. On top of that the rules are vague, which leaves a lot for interpretation when dealing with custom constructs.
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There is nothing in mythic adventures that says that you cannot make your golems mythic however in most campaigns you simply will not have the time also price will go up because of CR boost and as for legendary item I wouldn't but if you want an artifact golem be my guest and finally GM must make stats for the mythic golems but they should still be reasonable
1) Does the construct gain 1/2 its CR in mythic rank per monster creation rules?Nope, this feat only mentions pre-existing mythic items. No free power boost, sorry. However, this feats does let you build a collosus.
Mythic Crafter
Prerequisite(s): Any item creation feat.Benefit: You can create any mythic magic item for which you have the appropriate item creation feat. In addition, you gain a +5 bonus on skill checks when creating non-mythic magic items.
This seems to suggest to the contrary.
Cr500cricket: Thank you, I had missed the mythic flesh golem entry somehow.
1) Does the construct gain 1/2 its CR in mythic rank per monster creation rules?Nope, this feat only mentions pre-existing mythic items. No free power boost, sorry. However, this feats does let you build a collosus.
Mythic Crafter
Prerequisite(s): Any item creation feat.
Benefit: You can create any mythic magic item for which you have the appropriate item creation feat. In addition, you gain a +5 bonus on skill checks when creating non-mythic magic items.This seems to suggest to the contrary.
Cr500cricket: Thank you, I had missed the mythic flesh golem entry somehow.
What I'm saying is that your normal constructs dont get a boost. It has to be a pre-existing item (IE, mythic golem, collossus), or a custom mythic construct (I thought you where asking about regular constructs). In any case, dont forget that you'll have to adjust the price accordingly, though I dont know the proper relation between mythic ranks & construct cost.
Oh, no. I was talking about constructing the golem from the ground up and making it mythic in that process. Same with legendary. The easiest way to do this would be to make a mythic flesh golem (which they actually gave a 6 int. Yummy...) The issue being I don't want to do that since a flesh golem doesn't fit in with the gnomish tinkerer idea I had from a RP standpoint. Clockworks or a cannon golem seem more appropriate (He is a gun mage aka Spellslinger after all)
I wasn't suggesting constructs that I had made previously just upgrade for free. And yeah, The CR adjust from adding mythic should increase the cost to construct it. The mythic flesh golem for example is CR 9, instead of CR 7 for standard. So price would go from about 20k to about 35k if my math is right. Ouch... glad I'm taking hedge wizard, lol.
Definitly worth taking hedge wizard. Well, at lower level (level 10...) I've been using a clockwork spy a lot. To track it, a spell like scrying is very useful. Havent had the chance to try anything fancier, mainly because: 1) no time 2) no money 3) the GM doesnt want to clutter up the table more than it already is...
Edit: actually, the most resistance I've got is from the GM not wanting there to be too many creatures on the table. You'll probably have an easier time choosing one very powerful construct for combat, or several cheaper utility constructs.
One of the things I was planning was golem armor, which gives bang for my buck without cluttering the table, but yeah.
Crafting mastery isn't a bad plan. One nice thing about a mythic game is Wild Arcana pretty much wipes out the problem with not meeting spell requirements.
I did up a mythic version of the Craft Construct feat that you can find in the Feats of Monstrous Magic product that just released today from Legendary Games. It's a 3PP product you can find right here on Paizo and it's only a buck.
An interesting take, but way too expensive.
Adjusting for the math error above where I was actually calculating cost to purchase instead of construct we get the following.
Standard Flesh Golem: 10.5K
Per UM modifying constructs the mythic Flesh golem would cost ~18k.
Mythic per Your rules: ~36k. (50% increase per MR and 100% for sentience)
May the gods take mercy on you should you try to craft an end game golem such as adamantine.
Standard: 350K
Mythic per UM: ~463k
Mythic per your rules: 2.275 MILLION
And to make it worse, per your rules you wouldn't even control it since giving it INT gives it free will. Though I suppose if you ever ran an epic game it would make one hell of a cohort. Also there seems to be errors in your text from copying what looks like a version of the Awaken Construct spell. (you refer the the feat as a spell)
All in all, I thank you for the suggestion but consider the feat unusable and the PDF a waste of a dollar.
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games
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I did up a mythic version of the Craft Construct feat that you can find in the Feats of Monstrous Magic product that just released today from Legendary Games. It's a 3PP product you can find right here on Paizo and it's only a buck.An interesting take, but way too expensive.
Adjusting for the math error above where I was actually calculating cost to purchase instead of construct we get the following.
Standard Flesh Golem: 10.5K
Per UM modifying constructs the mythic Flesh golem would cost ~18k.
Mythic per Your rules: ~36k. (50% increase per MR and 100% for sentience)May the gods take mercy on you should you try to craft an end game golem such as adamantine.
Standard: 350K
Mythic per UM: ~463k
Mythic per your rules: 2.275 MILLIONAnd to make it worse, per your rules you wouldn't even control it since giving it INT gives it free will. Though I suppose if you ever ran an epic game it would make one hell of a cohort. Also there seems to be errors in your text from copying what looks like a version of the Awaken Construct spell. (you refer the the feat as a spell)
All in all, I thank you for the suggestion but consider the feat unusable and the PDF a waste of a dollar.
Thanks for checking it out, though sorry to hear you didn't enjoy. If you'd like to exchange the product (virtually speaking) for a different one of our Mythic Minis, email me at makeyourgamelegendary@gmail.com and let me know.
I appreciate that. We generally don't play with 3rd party supplements though so it isn't very likely.
Don't worry about it though. It was, after all, only a dollar.
Edit: if you want to be a construct-crafter, AVOID THE SPELLSLINGER LIKE THE PLAGUE! I'm sorry, but the fact you have 4 (yes 4) opposition schools means that each spell in an opposition school will increase the craft DCs by +4 (as well as a number of +5s for each spell that you dont know/are on the divine list, like ANIMATE OBJECTS! Frustrating stuff)
I missed this earlier. I wasn't very concerned about that because the first archmage path ability I am taking removes 2 opposition schools and Wild Arcana lets me cast any spell on the wizard list regardless of opposition school or if I know the spell.
Harmonious Mage (Ex)
Your wizardly studies have moved beyond the concept of opposition schools. Select two opposition schools. These are no longer opposition schools for you, preparing spells from one of these schools now only requires one spell slot of the appropriate level instead of two, and you no longer take the –4 Spellcraft penalty for crafting items from an opposition school.
You must have the arcane school class ability to select this ability, and your arcane school can't be universal.
Though now that I post this the last sentence gives me pause due to the School of the Gun.
School of the Gun
The rigor and care required by arcane guns is so great that a spellslinger forsakes four schools of magic. These opposition schools are chosen at 1st level and cannot be changed later. A spellslinger who prepares a spell from his opposition school must use two spell slots of that level to prepare the spell. In addition, the spellslinger takes a –4 penalty on any skill checks made when crafting a magic item that has a spell from one of his opposition schools as a prerequisite.
This ability replaces arcane school.
I imagine my GM will still be okay with it... but.. hmm....
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games
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I appreciate that. We generally don't play with 3rd party supplements though so it isn't very likely.
Don't worry about it though. It was, after all, only a dollar.
That's the idea; hopefully you'll love every product, but if not... it was only a buck. :)
Edit: if you want to be a construct-crafter, AVOID THE SPELLSLINGER LIKE THE PLAGUE! I'm sorry, but the fact you have 4 (yes 4) opposition schools means that each spell in an opposition school will increase the craft DCs by +4 (as well as a number of +5s for each spell that you dont know/are on the divine list, like ANIMATE OBJECTS! Frustrating stuff)I missed this earlier. I wasn't very concerned about that because the first archmage path ability I am taking removes 2 opposition schools and Wild Arcana lets me cast any spell on the wizard list regardless of opposition school or if I know the spell.
Harmonious Mage (Ex)
Your wizardly studies have moved beyond the concept of opposition schools. Select two opposition schools. These are no longer opposition schools for you, preparing spells from one of these schools now only requires one spell slot of the appropriate level instead of two, and you no longer take the –4 Spellcraft penalty for crafting items from an opposition school.
You must have the arcane school class ability to select this ability, and your arcane school can't be universal.School of the Gun
The rigor and care required by arcane guns is so great that a spellslinger forsakes four schools of magic. These opposition schools are chosen at 1st level and cannot be changed later. A spellslinger who prepares a spell from his opposition school must use two spell slots of that level to prepare the spell. In addition, the spellslinger takes a –4 penalty on any skill checks made when crafting a magic item that has a spell from one of his opposition schools as a prerequisite.
This ability replaces arcane school.I imagine my GM will still be okay with it... but.. hmm....
Yeah, raw that probably wouldnt work, but i see it as a reasonable ruling to allow (although it really depends on the GM). However, you will still have 2 opposition schools, which unfortunately wont work terribly well with the spellslinger:
Evocation: spellslinger loves, not so useful for 90% of constructs.
Transmutation: pretty important for constructs, useful for everyone.
Enchantment: essential for constructs, a buttload of them need geas/quest.
Necromancy: can easily be done away with, unless you want to make "dead" constructs (like flesh golems or soul puppets).
Illusion: could probably be done away with, dont remember any significantly useful spells.
Divination: you dont really want to get red of this, if only because of read magic & detect magic.
Abjuration: a few useful spells.
Conjuration: actually, not that many spells useful for construct crafting. But it's one of the biggest schools.
The "easiest" 2 opposition schools would probably be evocation & necromancy... but you want evocation, so you could probably go illusion & necromancy. But it will take a while to kick in.
Edit: also, while wild arcana ay let you cast any spell in battle, but:
1) Doesnt remove the +4 to opposition school DC
2) You're going to be using a hell of a lot of mythic power every day just for that (so unless your GM gives you a ton of downtime, it's risky)
<chuckles> So he didn't want to let me take harmonious mage. He likes the idea of gun mages having 4 opposition schools. So he is instead giving me a permanent golem manual that includes directions for all constructs and spells with no opposition school penalty....
Errm... uh.. okay.
Eh, it's reasonable. However, his "workaround" is better than anything you could have hoped for... Weirdness.
Eh, it's reasonable. However, his "workaround" is better than anything you could have hoped for... Weirdness.
...Absolutely. And to stay on target, you could work together with another player and split how much money you pay for the particular construct by having another player split the cost of the construct between the two of you. That's how I had a couple of my Wizard/Sorcerer characters make an item that they didn't quite have the money for themselves. That said, the Hedge Magician trait is useful, take some ranks in performance/profession for some extra daily money can be very useful when you're a couple gold away from being able to afford your very own Adamantine Golem (cringes at the memory of being a few gold short). Otherwise, have someone cast Crafters Fortune to gain a +5 bonus to a single craft check of your choice can help you out with any spells you wouldn't know, or even just to offset the +5 to the DC to make an item faster.
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I did up a mythic version of the Craft Construct feat that you can find in the Feats of Monstrous Magic product that just released today from Legendary Games. It's a 3PP product you can find right here on Paizo and it's only a buck.An interesting take, but way too expensive.
Adjusting for the math error above where I was actually calculating cost to purchase instead of construct we get the following.
Standard Flesh Golem: 10.5K
Per UM modifying constructs the mythic Flesh golem would cost ~18k.
Mythic per Your rules: ~36k. (50% increase per MR and 100% for sentience)May the gods take mercy on you should you try to craft an end game golem such as adamantine.
Standard: 350K
Mythic per UM: ~463k
Mythic per your rules: 2.275 MILLIONAnd to make it worse, per your rules you wouldn't even control it since giving it INT gives it free will. Though I suppose if you ever ran an epic game it would make one hell of a cohort. Also there seems to be errors in your text from copying what looks like a version of the Awaken Construct spell. (you refer the the feat as a spell)
All in all, I thank you for the suggestion but consider the feat unusable and the PDF a waste of a dollar.
You also have to look at the fact that special give an effective CR boost for price. if I was your GM each mythic ability would increase you're "CR" by 1 each.