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Probably the best thing to do is just to realize that it's a fantastical environment where anything is possible. Letting bird and snake people grow hair is far from breaking the game, but it does make the game fun for some people.
I can't see anything that prevents those races from having hair and my job isn't to turn people away, it's to provide them with a good time.
So If a tengu or nagaji white haired witch sits at my table, I'd let their abilities work, even if it has to be with scales or feathers.
+1. This is 100% my stance as well.
Only if certain breeds of crow or raven have eyelashes.Eyelashes are made of hair.
Some birds have eyelashes.
So, some birds have hair.
Could Tengu fit into this category of bird?
The description of Tengu is: Tengu are avian humanoids whose features strongly resemble crows.
It doesn't say that they are descended from crows, simply that they resemble them.
Could Tengu be avians with eyelashes? I don't see why not.
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At this point, I don't think whether or not it is legal matters anymore unless someone can provide absolute proof. The arguments here are sufficient to demonstrate that anyone who attempts to do this at a PFS table can expect table variation, which means it is not a good idea when your entire character relies on this concept. Interesting as the character may be, this is not something I would take to a PFS table without some sort of documentable proof.
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Only if certain breeds of crow or raven have eyelashes.Eyelashes are made of hair.
Some birds have eyelashes.
So, some birds have hair.
Could Tengu fit into this category of bird?
The description of Tengu is: Tengu are avian humanoids whose features strongly resemble crows.
It doesn't say that they are descended from crows, simply that they resemble them.
Could Tengu be avians with eyelashes? I don't see why not.
The Tengu in 47 Ronin appeared much more human than traditionally depicted and did not have feathers. Ironic to this discussion, they also didn't have any hair.
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The Tengu in 47 Ronin appeared much more human than traditionally depicted and did not have feathers. Ironic to this discussion, they also didn't have any hair.
Haven't seen the movie, but maybe he was a Yamabushi Tengu?
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I have an idea for next year's RPG Super Star!
Miracle Hair Growth
Aura weak transmutation; CL 3rd
Slot head; Price 100 gp; Weight 1 lb.
Description:
This unassuming tube contains a potent, foul smelling cream. When rubbed on the head of a humanoid creature, the creature almost instantaneously grows a glorious mane of hair, even if they would not normally grow hair. For all intents and purposes, the hair is a part of the creature's body. The hair persists until it is removed by being shaved, burned, pulled, or scalped from the creature's head.
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, Alter Self; Cost 100 gp
</snark>
Not gonna lie though, I think telling somebody their white haired witch is illegal because they have a race that doesn't have "hair" is kind of excessive rules lawyering. Is it really that big of a deal?
I like this!
Probably the best thing to do is just to realize that it's a fantastical environment where anything is possible. Letting bird and snake people grow hair is far from breaking the game, but it does make the game fun for some people.
I can't see anything that prevents those races from having hair and my job isn't to turn people away, it's to provide them with a good time.
So If a tengu or nagaji white haired witch sits at my table, I'd let their abilities work, even if it has to be with scales or feathers.
RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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Only if certain breeds of crow or raven have eyelashes.Eyelashes are made of hair.
Some birds have eyelashes.
So, some birds have hair.
Could Tengu fit into this category of bird?
The description of Tengu is: Tengu are avian humanoids whose features strongly resemble crows.
It doesn't say that they are descended from crows, simply that they resemble them.
Could Tengu be avians with eyelashes? I don't see why not.
Let's dig further--it's a slow day at work.
Hair, feathers, and scales are all types of integuments, or coverings, that animals can have. All three are formed from keratin. Hair is formed by α-keratins, while feathers and scales are formed from β-keratins. The arrangement of the keratin is what determines the structure. However different they all are, they are all formed from the same protein, which is why some birds have eyelashes. Given this, it's not a stretch that tengu or nagaji could produce hair, especially since they are humanoids--things that resemble humans. And humans definitely produce hair.
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Eyelashes are made of hair.
Some birds have eyelashes.
So, some birds have hair.
Could Tengu fit into this category of bird?
No bird has hair. The eyleashes you see on birds are just vestigial feathers without barbs. Some birds like the kiwi, have feathers that lack barbules and aftershafts and may closely resemble hair but are still just feathers. Hornbill eyelashes are modified feathers as well, bird eyelashes are not like those of a mammal, but these modified feathers still protect the bird's eyes from debris. Actual hair along with mammary glands are the defining characteristics of mammals and mammals alone. On an unrelated note, some mammals do have scutes which are similar to reptilian scales, but not.
With that said, I personally would allow a Tengu to be a white haired witch. I just can't seem to wrap my head around why this is an issue. In a fantastic world where we have bipedal lizards, and sword fighting birdmen, the matter of a magical avian witch having magic hair is really the point of disbelief? People work all sorts of crazy things into their character histories. I have seen an ignan shoanti ninja in society play which is way more unbelievable to me than a magic bird with both hair and feathers. A similar argument has happend before in regards to Tengu coloration and as long as there are Avian folk the war will continue it seems.
Just buy a hair piece, or a wig. Some may say that a wig is not your hair and that the ability specifies that the hair has to be yours, but hey if you buy a sword it becomes your sword, if you buy a horse it becomes your mount. If you buy a wig shouldn't it be considered your hair after all.
[disclaimer=Not part of actual point]Outside the scope of Paizo, which has not released Tengus of Golarion yet, traditional depictions of tengus often had white hair and feathers or red skin in an avian form. Quick read [/disclaimer]
Well... Talking about the science of magic is making me learn a lot about birds I didn't know before.
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I know what I'll do! I'll have a rabbit familiar, that way I can now be able qualify to use my hare as a weapon!
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which means it is not a good idea when your entire character relies on this concept.
I don't think using the white-haired witch archetype is a particularly good idea for your entire character to rely on regardless of race ...
Edit: Actually, that was just a throwaway joke, but isn't the entire archetype still in the "expect table variation" category, on account of the to-hit rolls? The hex explicitly says to treat the hair as a limb with a Str of the witch's Int, but the archetype says the hair is a natural attack with Int to damage and Int to CMB, and last I heard, there were a lot of people arguing both sides of the idea that the archetype was supposed to use Int for hitting as well. Maybe we should just ban the whole thing and save everyone some trouble.
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which means it is not a good idea when your entire character relies on this concept.I don't think using the white-haired witch archetype is a particularly good idea for your entire character to rely on regardless of race ...
[completelyserious]This. The archetype is horrible and has more holes in it than swiss cheese.[/completelyserious]
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[completelyserious]This. The archetype is horrible and has more holes in it than swiss cheese.[/completelyserious]which means it is not a good idea when your entire character relies on this concept.I don't think using the white-haired witch archetype is a particularly good idea for your entire character to rely on regardless of race ...
The Internet has ruined my ability to tell if someone is sincere: I can't tell if you're actually being completely serious, or sarcastically claiming to be completely serious, on account of posting with your L6 White-Haired Witch PFS character. D:
This could either be a "take it from me" moment or a "lol I enjoy screwing with people" moment.
It doesn't help that the character is also schizophrenic...
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It's a "Take it from me" one. This character it getting to an unplayable point where he can't connect with his hair to get the grapple attempt that uses Int to grapple, and even when he DOES, chances are that the CMD is way too much to actually successfully grapple with my poor, poor 1/2 base attack.
The Multiple Personality thing actually keeps him from the "Prematurely Retired" zone.
Ah I see. That would explain why I couldn't find 'The answer' for the archetype to function. I guess if you can hold out until 12th level, you'd be able to function again with your hair?
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Honestly, the ONLY thing that the archetype only has one Class Feature until much later. If I wanted to retrain and make him fully functional, I could do it in a heartbeat. The hair powers is such an integral part of the class that I don't mind him being a patchwork sometimes-healer. Plus, I've got so many 6th level PCs, I've got no issue having one just in case all my other ones are stuck in Play-by-Post games.
But I digress; this sounds like a huge "Table Variance", which is a horrible idea for a class that replaces nearly every single feature with an ability that can be shut off with the DM statement "You don't have hair so it doesn't work."
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It's a "Take it from me" one. This character it getting to an unplayable point where he can't connect with his hair to get the grapple attempt that uses Int to grapple, and even when he DOES, chances are that the CMD is way too much to actually successfully grapple with my poor, poor 1/2 base attack.
The Multiple Personality thing actually keeps him from the "Prematurely Retired" zone.
Hmm, good to know. Unfortunate, because I kind of wanted to play one, but rather what I was expecting. Thanks.
Wait, where does it say that Tengu have no hair?
That seems to be just an assumption people are making trying to equate real life birds to fantasy anthropomorphic crow-like people.
They very well could have some form of hair, perhaps not the same sort of hair a human or elf might have, but hair nonetheless. Enough to use with the archetype in question.
Apparently if it does not mention hair, they do not have it. Same goes for lots of other things, up to a point were we suddenly flip and do an assumption game where we now assume they have something, even if its not written in.
I think its if its something that is generally assumed to exist (Hair on humans, hearts and feet) Then it exists even if its not written in.
If its generally assumed (especially by those who are the loudest) that something does not exist, then it does not, until specifically stated to be in such existence. Like hair on races with scales or feathers.