If a druid wildshaped into a dog, and wanted to convince people he was a dog for surprising enemys or scouting.....would he get some sort of bonus or is it really a GM call?
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Polymorph: A polymorph spell transforms your physical body to take on the shape of another creature. While these spells make you appear to be the creature, granting you a +10 bonus on Disguise skill checks, they do not grant you all of the abilities and powers of the creature.
The druid wild shape ability work as the beast shape spells, so it grant the same bonus.
Then the disguise skill:
Special: Magic that alters your form, such as alter self, disguise self, polymorph, or shapechange, grants you a +10 bonus on Disguise checks (see the individual spell descriptions). Divination magic that allows people to see through illusions (such as true seeing) does not penetrate a mundane disguise, but it can negate the magical component of a magically enhanced one.
Then, again in the disguise skill, there is this set of modifiers:
Disguise
Check Modifier
Minor details only +5
Disguised as different gender (note 1) –2
Disguised as different race (note 1) –2
Disguised as different age category (note 1) –2 (note 2)
Disguised as different size category (note 1) –101 These modifiers are cumulative; use all that apply.
2 Per step of difference between your actual age category and your disguised age category. The steps are: young (younger than adulthood), adulthood, middle age, old, and venerable.
Wildshape actually change your size, so "Disguised as different size category –10" shouldn't apply. Same thing for "different gender".
Maybe "Disguised as different race" as it is possible you don't have the right mannerism for a dog, but I would use an ad hock modifier based on how knowlegeeable you are about the animal behavior.
thank you very much
I used to think the disguise check modifier was silly. Because there shouldn't even be a disguise skill roll involved, you are simply indiscernible from whatever you transformed into.
Finally, after pondering over why it could be that someone could see through this actual shape shifting as if it were simply a disguise, and I came to the conclusion that;
Shape shifting relies on your ability to fully and perfectly envision the new form. If you somehow don't have the perfect picture in your mind when you shift, you end up getting some minor detail a bit wrong. Maybe the hair pattern is off, or the whiskers aren't exactly centered properly, or your legs have slightly off proportions etc.
/random tangent
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Remy, you check the disguise only: "If you come to the attention of people who are suspicious (such as a guard who is watching commoners walking through a city gate), it can be assumed that such observers are taking 10 on their Perception checks".
For a druid wildshape I would use sense motive more than perception. Or animal handling or knowledge nature, modified by wild empathy when appropriate.
The disguise can be perfect, but if the dog, instead of sniffing the corners and the other dog butt is looking intently what the guards are doing a alert person can notice something suspicious.
Naturally if the druid is trying to pass as a normal dog while in a demon city in the Worldwound it is way easier to spot him than if he were to do the same thing in the streets of Oppara.
i always imagined it as you just acting wrong, like as a dog you not wagging your tail or panting, maybe staring at people for a little too long and not being distracted by noises. Also the lack of animal instinct. You might also not walk like a dog does, maybe stumbling around and running like you were injured...idk.
Remy, you check the disguise only: "If you come to the attention of people who are suspicious (such as a guard who is watching commoners walking through a city gate), it can be assumed that such observers are taking 10 on their Perception checks".
For a druid wildshape I would use sense motive more than perception. Or animal handling or knowledge nature, modified by wild empathy when appropriate.
The disguise can be perfect, but if the dog, instead of sniffing the corners and the other dog butt is looking intently what the guards are doing a alert person can notice something suspicious.
Naturally if the druid is trying to pass as a normal dog while in a demon city in the Worldwound it is way easier to spot him than if he were to do the same thing in the streets of Oppara.
Huh.
I went looking for the 'consequences' of someone winning an opposed perception check against your disguise check.
I'm not sure there is anything written...
Ha. Is it just assumed what the consequence is?
The closest line I could find is "Usually, an individual makes a Perception check to see through your disguise immediately upon meeting you and every hour thereafter."
But that would imply that they see through the disguise... meaning they see you. How is that possible if you have actually changed forms?
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Remy, you check the disguise only: "If you come to the attention of people who are suspicious (such as a guard who is watching commoners walking through a city gate), it can be assumed that such observers are taking 10 on their Perception checks".
For a druid wildshape I would use sense motive more than perception. Or animal handling or knowledge nature, modified by wild empathy when appropriate.
The disguise can be perfect, but if the dog, instead of sniffing the corners and the other dog butt is looking intently what the guards are doing a alert person can notice something suspicious.
Naturally if the druid is trying to pass as a normal dog while in a demon city in the Worldwound it is way easier to spot him than if he were to do the same thing in the streets of Oppara.
Huh.
I went looking for the 'consequences' of someone winning an opposed perception check against your disguise check.
I'm not sure there is anything written...
Ha. Is it just assumed what the consequence is?
"Try Again: Yes. You may try to redo a failed disguise, but once others know that a disguise was attempted, they'll be more suspicious."
So the people piercing your disguise will know that you are "something" trying to disguise itself as "something other".
They will not know that you are Billy the Bandit trying to infiltrate the city disguised as a farmer.
Recognizing you as Billy the Bandit under your disguise would require a higher success margin or a separate check.
"Try Again: Yes. You may try to redo a failed disguise, but once others know that a disguise was attempted, they'll be more suspicious."
So the people piercing your disguise will know that you are "something" trying to disguise itself as "something other".
They will not know that you are Billy the Bandit trying to infiltrate the city disguised as a farmer.
Recognizing you as Billy the Bandit under your disguise would require a higher success margin or a separate check.
So, if they can detect that it is a disguise, ie that is what they learn from succeeding the opposed check... then;
How is a transformed druid any perceptibly different from an awakened animal?
The only way to spot that it is an actual disguise, is if the disguise has a flaw in the appearance, even something minor.
A funny acting animal could be a lot of things; to know specifically it is something under a disguise, means seeing a flaw in the way it looks. No?
i think if someone makes their perception or w/e you choose to use, they would know something is weird about that dog and might not feel comfortable being around it or letting it around other people.
i feel that even though a random citizen or a guard in a town doesn't know what magic can do, they do know magic exists and become very suspicious of things they assume to be magic
they might shout "it's a demon dog!!!" and if noone claims you as theirs, what do they have to lose by killing a stray and not taking the chance that some bewitched animal is wandering their streets
my book says polymorph effects of transmutation school grant +20 on disguise...am i missing something
nm, i found a newer book, it's +10