Knife Master advice for PFS

[Jane "The Knife"]

Tinkering with a KnifeMaster(Rogue) PC that I have in PFS.

I want to make sure I've got her combat down pat - don't want to delay the game while I try to remember all her add-ins, so I figured I'd post 'em here and let you guys show me the error of my ways (Yeah, I guess I'm asking for it, I'll try to live with the posts that say I should run a 1/2 Orc Monk/Paladin with a Katana...).

Anyway, here's what she's got
(to hit)
+5 BAB (Rogue 6/Fighter 1)
+6 DEX of 23 (21 +2 Ioun Stone, Finesse Rogue to get Weapon Finesse)
+1 Weapon (+1 Agile Adamintine Dagger or a Master work dagger off hand)
+1 Point Blank Shot (when within 30')
-2 when 2 weapon fighting (pick up an off hand attack)
-2 when Rapid Shooting (Blink back belt allows her to throw the same dagger over and over)
-2 Deadly Aim (when using it)

(to damage)
+2 or +6 (STR of 14, or with Agile dagger DEX of 23) (off hand attacks for 2-weapon-fighting get half this)
+1 damage with a dagger (trait Riverrat)
+1 weapon (Magic dagger, or Masterwork dagger "sharpened" with a weltstone)
+1 for Point Blank Shot (when within 30')
+4 damage for Deadly Aim

so that results in potentially three attacks doing
a) +7 to hit, 1d4+13 damage (primary hand)
b) +7 to hit, 1d4+13 damage (rapid shot)
c) +7 to hit, 1d4+8 damage (off hand attack with a "sharp" MW dagger)

so... did I miss anything?

Know any other gimmicks for Knife Fighter?

And thanks in advance for you assistance!

(edit: fixed level, which should fix the other problems! thanks guys!)

[The Beard]

Kukri is a good gimmick for knife fighter. It qualifies for the purposes of the archetype, and you should have proficiency due to the level of fighter. Just walk around critting all day long with a range of 15-20 assuming keen or improved critical.

[nosig]

The Beard wrote:

Kukri is a good gimmick for knife fighter. It qualifies for the purposes of the archetype, and you should have proficiency due to the level of fighter. Just walk around critting all day long with a range of 15-20 assuming keen or improved critical.

but she normally throws them, and Kukri doesn't have a range increment does it?

without throwing them she looses: Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot & Deadly Aim (and with the Kukri she would have to add the improved critical feat and maybe Power Attack?), this seems like it would drop her one attack (of three) and +5 on damage for each hit...

I've found that she often gets a full attack when the other 2-weapon-fighters are only getting one (due to closeing)... and that extra swing from Rapid shot is nice. (not that I've played her much though, so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about).

[Ashe]

Everything seems fine except your BAB. It is only a +4 everything else seems fine. Good luck with it.

I think you need farshot or a way to get more range. Throwing at 10' is bad with reach weapons and larger enemies.

[nosig]

Ashe wrote:

Everything seems fine except your BAB. It is only a +4 everything else seems fine. Good luck with it.

Ouch! missed that. +3 from Rogue and +1 from Fighter! thanks!

wait... Argh! she's a 6th level Rogue, not 5th! (otherwise she wouldn't have a 7th level feat!)

(edit: went back and fixed the level typo! If you want a better look at her write-up, click on her name).

[nosig]

Ashe wrote:

Everything seems fine except your BAB. It is only a +4 everything else seems fine. Good luck with it.

I think you need farshot or a way to get more range. Throwing at 10' is bad with reach weapons and larger enemies.

yeah, great suggestion - need more feats! the -2 per 10 foot is an issue. I was going to take Far Shot, but say Hellcat Stealth and fell in love with Stealth... the 3d8 sneak dice can be an eye opener!

[Oserath]

Chris O'Reilly wrote:

nosig wrote:

Ashe wrote:

Everything seems fine except your BAB. It is only a +4 everything else seems fine. Good luck with it.

Ouch! missed that. +3 from Rogue and +1 from Fighter! thanks!

That changes your deadly aim to -1/+2 too

That leaves Deadly Aim right where it was at -2/+4

[Sir Thugsalot]

Knife-throwing had a nice PRC in 3rd edition.

IMO it blows in Pathfinder. Knives mean you have to close; and close means blown saves and being charged -- and then you're light infantry getting mauled.

[MC Templar]

Carry a myriad of knives to meet your needs...

Starknives for throwing, Kukris for 'close in work'

might I suggest the "scout" archetype and the charging hurler feat?

[Hawktitan]

Distance Thrower is better than Far Shot for you. Get both for penalty free 30' throws and only -2 throws at 50'.

[XMorsX]

You need a Dagger of Doubling and the Quickdraw feat in order to make the concept viable. Far shot + Distant thrower (thanks Hawktitan) and Opening Volley are great feats too.

Be an Inquisitor of Lao Shu Po with the Ambush (Trickery) subdomain for access to the Returning Weapon spell until you can afford the magic dagger. You will also have access to great spells like divine favor (couple it with the fate's favored trait) and Wrath and of course judgements and bane. Forget rogue, but a 4 lvl dip in weapon master fighter will give you extra feats and access to weapon training and gloves of dueling for +3/+3 attack and damage bonus. You will still reach the third judgement ability of the inquisitor. Probably the best time to dip out of Inquisitor is after the 12th lvl, when you get greater bane.

[Hawktitan]

Only need 3 levels of weapon master for weapon training. The 4th level would be if you want the weapon specialization feat.

Funny enough I recently looked into a shuriken thrower build and I came to the conclusion that throwing builds are difficult and the ammunition rules suck.

[Sir Thugsalot]

Compare a knife-thrower to a ninja zinging Flurry of Stars out of the fog.

Throwing is basically shafted in Pathfinder -- unless you're a giant.

[XMorsX]

Sir Thugsalot wrote:

Compare a knife-thrower to a ninja zinging Flurry of Stars out of the fog.

Throwing is basically shafted in Pathfinder -- unless you're a giant.

Flurry of stars requires ki that you cannot afford to use regularly. Also, the conditions that sneak attack aplies are not reliable, fog is good example.

Even then, an Inquisitor with the specific magic dagger, divine favor + fate's favored, the judgments for attack + damage, bane and maybe some other buff too (because he has plenty of them other than divine favor) I am pretty certain that will out DPR the Ninja. He needs some preperation and uses expendable resourses, but can go nova on-demand and not only when situation arrises.

[Sir Thugsalot]

The ninja doesn't have to use FoS; that's just gravy.

Quote:

I am pretty certain that will out DPR the Ninja

Maximum DPR isn't the goal; total package viability is. To be decent in Pathfinder, a knife-thrower has to be a one-trick pony; even the inquisitor is probably nerfing himself relative to some other, better combat tactic. But shurikens are built into ninjas; and their stealth is going to guarantee frequent sneak-attacks against flat-footed AC (and often from concealment).

I.e., "I throw my knives!" is liable to be followed by "Gak! I'm being eaten by a pissed-off Improved Grab monster!" -- a situation the shuriken assassin is less likely to face.

[XMorsX]

Inquisitor has also access to greater invisibility and with the right fomain to interesting powers too, like the liberation (which is better vs an enemy with maneuvers than anything a ninja has to offer) and the travel domains or the ambush and the tactics subdomains. And the fact hat inq is nerfing himself by focusing on such a tactic doe snot mean that he will be less effective than the ninja. He still has more tricks in his bag anyway.