Summoned monster / wildshape grapple question.

[Darthslash]

I've been really confused about this issue for awhile and I have no idea how its supposed to work, so maybe I can get some help here. Say I summon a Giant Octopus, or I wild shape into one. The giant octopus has 1 bite attack, and 8 tentacle attacks. Each tentacle is listed as doing (1d4+2 plus grab). So my question is: If I attack with 8 tentacles, and lets say 6 of them hit. 1.) does that mean I get to make 6 grapple attempts, or do they all merge into a single grapple attempt? 2.) If a grapple is successful, does that mean all the tentacles are now grappling?

another question is: I know that when I'm wild shaped, I'm following the rules layed out in the Beast Shape I-IV spells, and they talk about special attacks, but I've never seen anything said about special abilities. 3.) Do a get an animals special abilities automatically? For example, a crocodile has Hold Breath (Ex) and Sprint (Ex) do I get those? 4.) When I can wild shape into magical beasts, some of them have Spells Known. Do I have access to there spells?

Darthslash

[Nefreet]

You cannot Wildshape into Magical Beasts.

You only gain the abilities listed in the various Beast Shape spells.

You have lots of options when it comes to using your 8 tentacles. You could attack 8 different targets, and potentially initiate a grapple against each of them, but when it comes back to your next turn you can only maintain one of them, using your standard action.

Grapple rules don't really function properly for creatures with multiple limbs designed to grapple.

[Darthslash]

Nefreet wrote:

You cannot Wildshape into Magical Beasts.

In the rules under Druid it says:

"At 8th level, a druid can also use wild shape to change into a Huge or Diminutive animal, a Medium elemental, or a Small or Medium plant creature. When taking the form of animals, a druid's wild shape now functions as beast shape III. When taking the form of an elemental, the druid's wild shape now functions as elemental body II. When taking the form of a plant creature, the druid's wild shape functions as plant shape I."

Beast shape III:

"This spell functions as beast shape II, except that it also allows you to assume the form of a Diminutive or Huge creature of the animal type. This spell also allows you to take on the form of a Small or Medium creature of the magical beast type."

So can you or can you not wild shape into small and medium magical beasts?

[Nefreet]

You cannot. Only Animals, Elementals, or Plant Creatures.

[Valdenshi]

I'd say that you can if you're a druid using wildshape since the ability explicitly stats that you can.

More on topic, I believe that you resolve each hit separately.

If you attack with all 8 tentacles you resolve the first one, then the second, ect.

So lets say you hit with the first one. That would allow you to make a grapple attempt right then and there. If you decide to and it is successful you are now grappling your foe. Now, the grab text doesn't actually say may, but I'm pretty certain that you get to choose wether or not to actually start a grapple.

Now I'm not 100% sure about what happens next.
Either you get to continue with your full attack, or your full attack stops.

Here's the text of the Grab ability and the Grappled Condition

Grab:

If a creature with this special attack hits with the indicated attack (usually a claw or bite attack), it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. Unless otherwise noted, grab can only be used against targets of a size equal to or smaller than the creature with this ability. If the creature can use grab on creatures of other sizes, it is noted in the creature's Special Attacks line. The creature has the option to conduct the grapple normally, or simply use the part of its body it used in the grab to hold the opponent. If it chooses to do the latter, it takes a –20 penalty on its CMB check to make and maintain the grapple, but does not gain the grappled condition itself. A successful hold does not deal any extra damage unless the creature also has the constrict special attack. If the creature does not constrict, each successful grapple check it makes during successive rounds automatically deals the damage indicated for the attack that established the hold. Otherwise, it deals constriction damage as well (the amount is given in the creature’s descriptive text).

Grappled:

A grappled creature is restrained by a creature, trap, or effect. Grappled creatures cannot move and take a –4 penalty to Dexterity. A grappled creature takes a –2 penalty on all attack rolls and combat maneuver checks, except those made to grapple or escape a grapple. In addition, grappled creatures can take no action that requires two hands to perform. A grappled character who attempts to cast a spell or use a spell-like ability must make a concentration check (DC 10 + grappler's CMB + spell level), or lose the spell. Grappled creatures cannot make attacks of opportunity.

A grappled creature cannot use Stealth to hide from the creature grappling it, even if a special ability, such as hide in plain sight, would normally allow it to do so. If a grappled creature becomes invisible, through a spell or other ability, it gains a +2 circumstance bonus on its CMD to avoid being grappled, but receives no other benefit.

Casting Spells while Grappled/Grappling: The only spells which can be cast while grappling or pinned are those without somatic components and whose material components (if any) you have in hand. Even so, you must make a concentration check (DC 10 + the grappler's CMB + the level of the spell you're casting) or lose the spell.

[Are]

Darthslash wrote:

So can you or can you not wild shape into small and medium magical beasts?

You can't.

While the druid's wild shape references beast shape III, it only does so for the purpose of "taking the form of animals". Since magical beasts aren't animals, they aren't allowed for wild shape.

[James Risner]

Darthslash wrote:

So can you or can you not wild shape into small and medium magical beasts?

You can not turn into Magical Beasts.

Oracle of the Dark Tapestry can tho.

[Darthslash]

In the Giant Octopus scenario above, say I am able to hit with 6 tentacles and I grapple with all 6 of them... I have some common sense questions. The grapple rules state, "If you do not release the grapple, you must continue to make a check each round, as a standard action, to maintain the hold." So round 2, I use a standard action to maintain the grapple, does that mean I can only make one grapple check to keep a single tentacle held since its a standard action, and the rest have to release because I'm out of actions? Or, since I'm holding with 6 tentacles, do they each get there own standard action (in a sort of way) to maintain the grapple?

Also, wouldn't it make the most sense to release all grappling tentacles at the start of round 2? That way all 8 tentacles can attack again, and the ones that hit will get there automatic constriction bonus damage.

I remember watching the old 20,000 leagues under the sea movie. And during that movie they get attacked by a Giant Octopus. From what I remember, all of the Octopus's tentacles get to not only attack each round, but once they succeed on a grapple check, they get to maintain that grapple each successive round, even when other tentacles are attacking other targets and making new grapple checks! Isn't that the way it should work with creatures that have multiple grab capable limbs? Each limb / tentacle should get its own separate grapple checks to attempt, and then maintain grapples.

[thaX]

From what has been posted above, you can only maintain one grapple. That grapple gets the constrict damage. If the octopus maintains a grapple, he then can not attack as he has only a movement action left.

So, it depends on what the monster wants. Does it constrict a particularly dificult foe, or release and hit with eight (Six?) tentacles again? That is a GM call.

If I remember right, the constrict damage was a bit more than a regular hit.

[James Risner]

Darthslash wrote:

round 2, I use a standard action to maintain the grapple, does that mean I can only make one grapple check to keep a single tentacle held since its a standard action, and the rest have to release because I'm out of actions?

Also, wouldn't it make the most sense to release all grappling tentacles at the start of round 2?

Yes

Yes