What doesn't get used enough in fantasy?


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Bunnyboy wrote:
Jaelithe wrote:

  • Demons and devils who employ strategies and tactics befitting their vastly superior intelligence, nigh-infinite patience and immortal lifespans. Same goes with elves and dwarves, whose longevity would give them immense advantages over humans in any reality where the races interacted.
When time is not problem, the amount of time used might become a problem. How often they find that their perfect plans were outdated by decades or even by centuries?

I would imagine that when time is a problem, they adjust their strategies accordingly. As I mentioned, "vastly superior intelligence." That implies adaptability, too.

Sovereign Court

mellowgoth wrote:

Cultures that are NOT real-world analogues, or interesting combinations of facets of real-world cultures. If I recall, the old Greyhawk settng did a decent job with this.

I'll second divisions of demi-humans by culture, rather than statblock. Eberron's Valenar and Aerendel elves are a decent example.

Hm, I always found it hard not to make a culture that wasn't an analogue of one thing or another. You can say one thing for humans: we're really diverse.

Silver Crusade

mellowgoth wrote:

Cultures that are NOT real-world analogues, or interesting combinations of facets of real-world cultures. If I recall, the old Greyhawk settng did a decent job with this.

I'll second divisions of demi-humans by culture, rather than statblock. Eberron's Valenar and Aerendel elves are a decent example.

we must be remembering grayhawk differently as I thought there were several real world analogues in the setting.

Most notably the scarlet brotherhood which has several things that are almost identical to real history nazis (especially in 3.5)

Dark Archive

A thing I'd like to see more of;
Magic that isn't psionics (telekinetically throwing stuff / people around), teleportation, telepathy, etc. but actually involves rituals and incantations and diagrams drawn on the ground and hex bags and occult stuff, not 'pew-pew, I can shoot lasers from my hands, just like Merlin was never ever said to do!'

.

And yeah, Greyhawk wasn't perfect at avoiding real world expies, such as Hepmonaland, a South/Central American riff with gods named Camazotz, etc. or the not-at-all-fantasy-Arabic countries up to the north and west, or the not-at-all-Vikings in the Snow/Frost/Ice Barbarian lands. It was still pretty darn original, IMO, for the most part. You could pick and scratch at Aerdy and find a little bit of the Roman Empire under the paint, but it was still very much more different than say, Mulhorand and Egypt (or Osirion and Egypt), or Kara-Tur and Asia.

The Realms started out pretty original, and, with the addition of places like Calimshan and Chult and Mulhorand (also with real world Egyptian gods) and Chessenta got a bit more 'earth-clones-ish,' with Kara-Tur and Al-Qadim and Maztica and the Hordelands taking it up a notch. (That said, Al-Qadim, original or not, remains one of my favorite sub-settings, ever!)

If looking for a D&D fantasy world that doesn't have fantasy Egypt or fantasy Persia or fantasy Asia, there's always Eberron or the Scarred Lands. Maybe Tellene, although I'm less familiar with that world.

The downside of completely made up worlds, is that they tend to be pretty white. No 'faux Asia' tends to mean no Asians, no 'faux Africa' often means no Africans, no 'faux Americas' can mean no Native Americans. Feels less like a 'non derivative completely original fantasy setting' and more like a 'Klan paradise,' when you've carefully selected your idealized fantasy world to include no real world ethnicities or cultures, and, even more so when the traditional fantasy tropes of knights and castles tend to be as 'faux European' as sphinxes and pyramids are faux Egyptian.

I'm less of a fan of the half-and-half approach anyway. Either go Eberron, and skip all of Earth's cultures, or go the other extreme, and use a map of the real world, overlaid with fantasy versions of those cultures (ignoring anachronisms, a la a game of Civilization where the Aztecs just happen to be roughly at the same tech / cultural level as the Romans or the Egyptians or the Celts, all sort of advanced to or frozen at their nadir). That way the faux Egyptians aren't 'faux,' they're just Egyptians. Ditto the faux Asians, faux Native Americans, faux Persians/Arabs, etc. That sort of map would have Galt's red revolution occurring over in Varisia (where France would be) and Irrisen over to the east, being Russia. Osirion would pretty much remain where it is, but be even *more* Egypt-like (modified as needed for the inclusion of magic and monsters and hostile humanoid presences and 'demihumans' and active gods), and the GM could go online and look up actual Egyptian locations for background research. No need for the setting designers to decide where to put the 'fantasy Vikings,' when the map shows them exactly where Denmark, Norway, etc. are.

And then I could yank out all my 2nd edition AD&D and / or GURPS sourcebooks about Celts and Vikings and whatnot (some of which were written by the same dude, IIRC) and use them straight from the book! :)


Set wrote:
I'm less of a fan of the half-and-half approach anyway. Either go Eberron, and skip all of Earth's cultures, or go the other extreme, and use a map of the real world, overlaid with fantasy versions of those cultures (ignoring anachronisms, a la a game of Civilization where the Aztecs just happen to be roughly at the same tech / cultural level as the Romans or the Egyptians or the Celts, all sort of advanced to or frozen at their nadir).

Do you perhaps mean "apex" or "zenith" rather than "nadir"? I'm not sure why you'd freeze a culture at its lowest point.


I want to do more kinda Polynesian stuff. Maori, ancient Hawaaian, that kind of thing. I even tried to homebrew some Hawaiaan gods. Only problem is, Hawaaian mythology can be a little hard to follow. I tried some of it in a homebrew setting, but it didn't seem to catch on with other people.

I'm actually quite fond of nations with real-world historical analogues. And I think you can get some interesting stuff by mixing them together. In most cases the idea had to be from somewhere. Problem is, it's always the same handful of countries and time periods(Japan, Catholic/Gothic place, somewhere with byzantine politics, somewhere with genies, a place with a lot of woodland, elf-topia, dwarftopia, high-magic-topia, sinister magocracy etc.) , or they don't go into enough detail if it's not.

Dark Archive

Jaelithe wrote:
Do you perhaps mean "apex" or "zenith" rather than "nadir"? I'm not sure why you'd freeze a culture at its lowest point.

Hah, bad language! I'd fix that if the time limit hadn't already expired.


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More of the fantastic. Put the fantasy back in fantasy. More original and distinct regional and cultural detail, less generics white, asian etc cultures. Less of the real world and more fantasy. I think that game worlds tend to fall into the same copy cat generic rut and that it's easy and mostly acceptable to the buyers and so it just doesn't evolve past that point. I play fantasy games because I like fantasy.

I realize that the gm is supposed to create a lot of the flavor, but a few more original details would be appreciated.

IF you are going to create a humanocentric world, at least make the cultures different enough that when you roll across the continent searching for adventure, the nations will be distinct feeling from each other. IF you are are going to use a real world cultural stereotype, at least look up the corresponding regional language for that culture and give the area names with that flavor.

Oh, and from a girl gamer pov, could we PLEASE not have all women have triple D boobs?? Not all gamers are 17 year old guys. Draw real women of various shapes and not just copy female models from some magazine of questionable good taste ;D

AND learn to draw armor!!!!! So many artists draw it like it's fabric. Women's breasts wouldn't show as distinct breasts...armor goes over padding. It would cut into the skin, break bones and chafe otherwise and wouldn't do you any good or give any protection. Unless it's soft leather, boobies won't show. If you are wearing fine mithril chain, well ok, but it would likely still chafe over skin after a while. But please hire artists that know how to actually draw armor realistically. Chain mail thongs?...ok...whatever...everyone needs their cheeze. I think that there are enough female gamers that we would at least like to see more beef and not just the barbarian types, to go with the gratuitous cheeze =P Some of you? Any of you?

Oh yeah, and stop with the pointy ears. It seems that artists toss pointed ears on anything, no matter how ugly and call it an elf...the nastiness never ends.

I know some of you will will argue and point out where I've been wrong, which is ok, since this is just my own pov anyway. I'm hard to please, but these are a few things on my wishlist.


Set wrote:

A thing I'd like to see more of;

Magic that isn't psionics (telekinetically throwing stuff / people around), teleportation, telepathy, etc. but actually involves rituals and incantations and diagrams drawn on the ground and hex bags and occult stuff, not 'pew-pew, I can shoot lasers from my hands, just like Merlin was never ever said to do!'

I agree. DnD style RPGs (and I suspect a good chunk of the other ones) don't really emulate magic very well, either the kind seen in contemporary fantasy fiction, or the the stuff in actual folklore. If they did, you would NEVER hear complaints about magic users being overpowered compared to martials.

That summon spell? hope you have a day to set up the proper circle, chants, and go through the purification rites.

Even if you go the route of emulating modern fantasy, most magic systems have rules, either dictated by other magic users, or the by the magic itself. Want to raise dead your friend? Good luck with that...he will probably just come back as an undead abomination. Want to use magic to enthrall a mind? roll for sanity afterwards...oh look you are now a sociopath!

Granted I do understand some of the reasoning...it's easier for book-keeping for players, and a lot of people would feel nerfed. Still I like the idea of powerful magic having powerful side effects.


It seems that Artesia RPG would answer to many wishes.
I haven't played it yet, but the art, mythology and overall setting does look deliciously realistic, brutal and fantastic.

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