Darkness and non magical lights


Rules Questions


I've got a cleric with the darkness alternate channeling. Basically cast darkness with every channel, even says in the description it works as the spell 'Darkness.'

Unsure if darkness negates non magical sources of light in the area or not.

Nonmagical sources of light, such as torches and lanterns, do not increase the light level in an area of darkness. Magical light sources only increase the light level in an area if they are of a higher spell level than darkness.

Now, is this saying that these sources can't increase it from what it would be naturally in an area of darkness? Meaning that if there is no natural light (ie night, underground or no moon) the light level is actually 'dark' and the torches can't increase it (and darkness then drops it one lower which does nothing).

or this phrased incorrectly and they do increase the light level, but it was intended for you to apply darkness afterwards. Dark, + torch = normal, - darkness = dim.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

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You're overthinking this. Is the light level higher than it would be without the torch? If so, then it's raising the light level, which darkness prohibits.

See also multiple FAQs on the subject. Click the "Help/FAQ" link at the top-right corner of any page, then click "Core Rulebook" in the sidebar and look for "darkness". There's something like 3 or 4 of them.


I read it and understand it as the lights in a dungeon for instance will allow you to see but as soon as you cast darkness those light sources have no effect.

You could build a raging fire giving off a lot of light in a dungeon but as soon as you cast darkness everything in the area becomes total darkness. The only thing that will make it lighter is magic of a higher spell level.


Excellent. This was the way I had interpreted it, but it was vague enough to make me wonder.

Now I can go back to blinding my allies in confidence as none of them have dark vision.

FAQ: this was not covered by the FAQ, since it was just a clarification if the 'light level' referred to the natural light level (in which sunlight is the only meaningful factor), or the general light level.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Sekret_One wrote:
FAQ: this was not covered by the FAQ, since it was just a clarification if the 'light level' referred to the natural light level (in which sunlight is the only meaningful factor), or the general light level.
FAQ wrote:
In such an area, it automatically defaults to the ambient natural light level (the light level from natural sources, such as the sun, moon, and stars—not torches, campfires, light spells, and so on), and then reduces it one step.

It states that you default to a light level that does not include torches before you reduce it one step, which answers what you asked in your first post.

But in any case, the important thing is you got your answer, one way or another. :)


You... are right. I skimmed over that one because the question was about bundling sun rods together to 'increase spell level' like that was going to fly... of course that's where my answer would be.

Guess I better read all the goofy questions just in case something useful is in there.

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