| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
I posted a question on the Ask James Jacobs thread and was directed that this might be a better place to get some insight.
As a question that might set a precedent (or series thereof), what happens when a Wyrwood (or any self-aware, free-thinking construct) is targeted with Control Construct?
Would a Wyrwood get some sort of saving through against Control Construct? If not, and assuming the Wyrwood is it's own master, would it still be opposed Spellcraft checks or something else?
Let me clarify the heart of the question.
This charm makes a construct regard you as its master. The spell only affects mindless constructs that are attuned to the commands of a master, such as animated objects, golems, retrievers, and shield guardians. All constructs with Intelligence scores, even those that explicitly follow the commands of their creator, such as an homunculus, are unaffected.
Saving Throw none (see text); Spell resistance no
You wrest the control of a construct from its master. For as long as you concentrate, you can control the construct as if you were its master. You must make a Spellcraft check each round to maintain control. The DC of the Spellcraft check is (10 + the construct's HD). If the construct's creator or master is present and trying to control the construct, you both must make opposed Spellcraft checks each round to control the construct.
In Apparent Master, it mentions pretty clearly that it only works on mindless constructs that have a designated master. However, in Control Construct, that clarification is missing.
Is that distinct limitation on what kind of constructs Apparent Master affects supposed to also apply to Control Construct? If so, cool.
If not, the fact that there is no saving throw for Control Construct and no Spell Resistance means that a Wyrwood would have no possibility of resisting, unless the Wyrwood is considered it's own master, in which case, it could only resist with opposed Spellcraft checks, which cannot be attempted untrained.
Essentially, how is Control Construct supposed to resolve on a free-willed intelligent construct?
Hmm... I would actually say that unless a Wyrwood is considered it's own master, then the spell has no affect. A Wyrwood's "master" has no ability to control it.
However, given the level and duration of the spell, as well as the ongoing checks to control, I think it's reasonable to call it a Will negates spell for un-mastered constructs.
If the construct works for the Cheliax faction, all bets are off.
That's what I was thinking, but I was hoping for something definitive.
And that's the flipside of the situation. Does 'you wrest the control of a construct from its master' count as a prerequisite or is it fluff text? If it's a prerequisite, does that mean you can't use this on an uncontrolled golem?
I don't believe it is a prerequisite for it to currently have a master. Good question though.
FYI - I would use this with a will save in a home game - I don't suggest that it would work that way by default or in PFS.
Well, that's the grey area. It certainly doesn't have anyone on the other end controlling it, but if the spell is supposed to work on an uncontrolled golem, it wouldn't have an 'active' master either. Which goes back to the question of does a free-willed construct act as its own master.
I can see that it might work like Control Summoned Creature, which allows a saving throw and spell resistance. You can put a summoned creature into a magical trap, so there's no 'master' controlling the creature (aside from some pre-programmed command the moment the creature is summoned), but is the difference between a 4th level (Control Summoned Creature) and 7th (Control Construct) enough to warrant no saving throw or spell resistance?