Hey, gents. Long story short. The extra time I had bought by releasing two base classes this month got eaten by the flu instead of by the release of my first card game. This means I need to produce more large products to buy that time again in January.
Given One Bling to Rule Them All didn't sell well, a sequel is not in my best interests, so an idea or three I had are shelved until that product actually starts turning a few copies.
Though I have some fairly good adventures I can publish, the obvious answer for Interjection Games is the production of another 30-45 page base class or two. I'll admit, with one in the works for Amora Game, I'm actually out of ideas.
Here's the question, then. What have you always wanted to be able to play as a base class? From random spell generation and spell point warlocks to swarms of robots, I'll expand upon your kernel and make that dream about 20,000 words of reality.
As always, if I go with your request, your copy is free.
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I'd like to see some sort of engineer/tinkerer/artificer class, I can just imagine the little gnome at the corner table in the tavern building a mechanized animal companion...
if a tinker engineer or artificer happens I'd like to see one that doesn't cast spells via devices or have spells at all.
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if a tinker engineer or artificer happens I'd like to see one that doesn't cast spells via devices or have spells at all.
I agree, I didn't mean to imply any spellcasting. Now, incorporating wands /rods into the constructs somehow could be interesting
It's just that I have three third party products with some kind of artificer. Most of attempts that I see are partially just "gizmo wizards" with a spell list. at this point I'm more interested in a relative mundane mechanist than gadget wizards, robot pet classes or crafters. Not saying I'd be put off by magic and robots just that its easy to make pets and spell lists the basis of an artificer class.
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I would like to see a dedicated anti-magic class. One that not just has good protection vs spells (such as barbarian) but actively inhibits their ability to do any kind of magical operations, thus enabling mundane allies to succeed.
Another idea I had was some sort of "genius fighter" such as Joseph Joestar from JoJo's Bizarre adventure or like Conan the Barbarian (the book version. Basically, a physically powerful individual who primarily uses their intelligence to overcome obstacles. I'd like to see this class have a lot of mundane utility as well, so some McGyver influence wouldn't hurt either.
@Malcolm
The exact base class you want already exists, mate. It's called the Tinker and is based on the design, deployment, and commanding of squadrons of mechanical pets. It was my very first large offering to the Pathfinder community and is nominated for Endzeitgeist's Top 10 of 2013, though I will warn you that I have learned to be significantly more... user friendly in the last eight months. Referral back to monster advancement tables may become necessary if you get fancy with your automatons. On the plus side, I was terrified of how the community would take my first big product and significantly underpriced myself in an attempt to drive sales. Four bucks is a bargain for the volume of work I have in there. :) Here's the link.
@Malwing
I'll start by saying that I haven't built a totally mundane gadget-using artificer class; however, I did release the Gadgeteer earlier this month, which is fairly close to being mundane. The issue here is while some of the gadgetry is inspired by <insert famous secret agent here> or by Mac<insert other famous agent here>, some of the rest of the gadgetry is more typical simply to give a new system enough "familiar" options to keep somebody from being overwhelmed. In essence, you can run around with a gnome with a cigar that deploys everything from noxious fumes to a parachute on command, but you can also hook a battery up to your sword and gain an elemental smite attack. You can also make granola bars to heal people, because that's funny.
For the passive gadgets approach, I have an Innovator prestige class for the Tinker that might be exactly what you're looking for, so long as you're okay with the fact that your base class is a robot pet class.
@Malcolm and Malwing
Thank you for coming in so quickly, gents. I really do appreciate it. From you two,I've learned that I need to learn to market my products better because the community at large still doesn't know what I've already made.
...Would you happen to have anything else you'd like to see? Though I've already done what you've spoken of, what you two find cool and what I find fun to design align fairly well. :)
I would like to see a dedicated anti-magic class. One that not just has good protection vs spells (such as barbarian) but actively inhibits their ability to do any kind of magical operations, thus enabling mundane allies to succeed.
Another idea I had was some sort of "genius fighter" such as Joseph Joestar from JoJo's Bizarre adventure or like Conan the Barbarian (the book version. Basically, a physically powerful individual who primarily uses their intelligence to overcome obstacles. I'd like to see this class have a lot of mundane utility as well, so some McGyver influence wouldn't hurt either.
Huh, you're onto something, Desidero. I had half a class worth of features in my head before I finished your post. For the antimagic class, were you considering an antimagic martial or an antimagic caster? Personally, the caster variant comes together more readily and requires less "swing my club at an oncoming ray to deflect it", which, admittedly, is still quite cool.
Caster:
Specialize in warding and protection. Imagine the bard combat role without music, no damage spells barring the various force hand spells and other defensive spells that can deal damage, and a spell list that goes to 9th.
Make it a master at counterspelling, to the point of allowing the preparation of spell slots to counter any spell of that school. Slot burned must be of equal or higher level than thing stopped.
It would also be amusing to have a passive aura that functions on allies if affected by an ongoing spell cast by the Warder. Maybe divide the benefits up by school? Unsure, but it would be a fun feature to allow for customization.
I admit it'll be hard to balance, but that's the sort of challenge I like :)
Huh, you're onto something, Desidero. I had half a class worth of features in my head before I finished your post. For the antimagic class, were you considering an antimagic martial or an antimagic caster? Personally, the caster variant comes together more readily and requires less "swing my club at an oncoming ray to deflect it", which, admittedly, is still quite cool.
While it would take some extraordinary powers to deal with magic, I think that having the anticaster be a caster themselves feels thematically backwards. While that's not unworkable I was thinking more along the lines of something diametrically opposed to the essence of casters. Whereas magic users are conduits of magical energy, able to draw deep power from within themselves these anticasters would be characterized by an inner void, a negative potential for magic that absorbs or counteracts magical energy. I think there's real potential for some good fluff here as it seems all but inevitable that Golarion would include something that keeps all this crazy magic in check and keeps society together in the face of teleporting assassins and politicians who can see the future.
I didn't really have counterspelling in mind, I think it could work but it also might be more fun if you focused on inconveniencing magic users rather than shutting them down altogether. No one likes having their character completely negated, not even dirty wizards. I was thinking more along the lines of resistance to magic/elemental damage, reducing of DCs, durations, target sizes, and magnitudes of effects. If you wanted to go with a harder shut down maybe anticasters could exude an aura that forces concentration checks when they would not normally be required. Maybe they could cause spells to take longer (ie. swift action to standard action or standard to full round). Maybe casting high level spells also require you to burn the slots of a few lower level spells. Maybe they could be especially skilled at delaying attack until an enemy mage tries to cast a spell. Maybe they could be good at stealing spell component pouches. There's lots and lots of ways to weaken magic users.
Also, don't forget to include some non combat effects that screw with casters, like stuff that sees through disguise or invisibility or disrupts scrying and teleportation.
I'm really glad you've taken interest in this idea and I eagerly await seeing what you make of it!
Huh, you're onto something, Desidero. I had half a class worth of features in my head before I finished your post. For the antimagic class, were you considering an antimagic martial or an antimagic caster? Personally, the caster variant comes together more readily and requires less "swing my club at an oncoming ray to deflect it", which, admittedly, is still quite cool.While it would take some extraordinary powers to deal with magic, I think that having the anticaster be a caster themselves feels thematically backwards. While that's not unworkable I was thinking more along the lines of something diametrically opposed to the essence of casters.
Alright, so the martial slant. That works, too. I have an entire campaign setting that uses too many Wizards of the Coast Product Identity bits to convert to Pathfinder that can be looted for all sorts of cool antimagic effects in that vein.
Thinking of the things I own and concepts I cannot do;
I find making a non inherently magical knowledge crlass difficult. Not sure if its possible considering how combat orientesd pathfinder usually is. the closest to the concept is the scholar from fistful of denarii. basically I tried to make Dr Who (uses smarts not combat or magic) and it didn't work too well.
I've only seen one real mundane crafter class. As in someone who used craft basket weaving for combat. what leads me to that is the general lack of classes that deal with food and herbs. potions are coring and monopolized by casters. food is represented as one class feature that shows its potential; the witch hex Cook People. if you can make satanic gingerbread men from cooking people why not things like cooking dragons to make breath weapon soda. overall I have a hard time representing a blacksmith's son using his craft to help him in an adventure he's gotten himself into, or a monster hunter that has a plan on what to do with the monsters body.
I'd like to see some monster classes or one monster class. basically either prestige classes that act like templates but with a progression, or a non caster sorcerer. perhaps both. my reasoning behind a non caster sorcerer is that their flavor is amazing but seem to be relegated to "different Wizard" but the idea doesn't necessarily mean that it should be weak or should have a spell list.
Spontaneous versions of the classes that don't have spontaneous versions, like the Ranger and Druid.
An at-will spellcaster like the 3e Warlock.
A 'chaos spellcaster', reminiscent of the 4e Chaos Sorcerer rather than the 2e Wild Mage ... spells with some randomization to the results, but no backfiring or inherently useless results. Things like random energy types or random status effects, not 'the target is surrounded by butterflies' or 'the caster gets gassy'.
The Warlord. The 4e Warlord, which was the most awesome thing that ever awesomed its way down Awesome Street in Awesomeville.
1) Engineer
2) Cleric/Rogue PrC as a class
3) Master Specailist
A warlock. Even an enhanced/updated Tome of Secrets warlock.
Two things I forgot to mention:
1) Some kind of Psychic. I don't want to say Psionic because those come off feeling more like wizards or monks. Something more like a sensitive or a science fiction psion that mostly uses divination/telepathy/telekinesis as spell-like abilities rather than have a spell list. at 3/4 BAB and d8 HD it could have enough flexibility to encompass a lot of concepts through archetypes and modular class features rather than have the usual roster of classes that boil down to Psionic wizard, psionic fighter, psionic monk, ect.
2) An extention of the monster or bloodline class(es); some kind of 'bond' class. Basically kind of a proto-sorcerer where you gain a symbiotic relationship with a magical monster and start to gain class features from it. Similar to how Super Genius Games' The Dragonrider gains dragon aspects by bonding with a dragon only from aboleths, liches, fey or so on. Basically a 'monster touched' class. I know that the concept is covered by a lot of races but they dont' exactly have a means to gain more features from their heritage unless they take sorcerer levels. While design philosophy-wise I'm against the concept of class levels that represent what you are as much as what you train for but I think Sorcerer already opened that can of worms.
That said the only Interjection Games product I really know of (and own) is the Tinker line, so I'll check out whats already there and post again.
I'd enjoy seeing something Aberration-heavy somehow. Um... let me give a brief overview of where I'm coming from.
I tend to think of Aberrations as a "natural" version of Magical Beasts, with powers that work more with physical laws (even if those laws aren't known or understood) than magic. The best flavor would probably come from taking parts of the universe we understand and making them something bigger and better - imagine using a field of gravity as a shield, or changing the state of matter to sunder objects. A wall of magnetism could drag anything metal towards it at a certain rate (10 ft/round?), or super-hot plasma could be formed into a weapon. The key is that none of this is magical, and effects that would stop magic wouldn't work against this class - but effects that would stop normal physical activity would, even if those effects were magical themselves. It's all physical phenomenon, and the universe/magic would know how to react even if people don't. Also, not allowing for some kind of save/interaction doesn't seem like it would be entirely fair. Balance is important, too, however cool something is. Maybe something like others adding their Fortitude/Reflex modifiers to create an alternate for Spell Resistance would work? (These wouldn't be spells, after all)
I think I'd prefer to see such a class avoid any "Spell List" types of benefits - it should be very distinct from normal spellcasters (i.e. Not "Spellcasters by a better name who don't muck about with Spell Resistance"). A better fit might be a Domain system of some kind, each centered around a natural phenomenon (magnetism, gravity, etc.) in addition to whatever skills every member of the class has. Something like better uses per day to make up for the lack of spellcasting variety, a one-time feat (with a minimum level requirement?) to select a second domain, etc. Or make it additional domains at certain levels; that could also work, particularly if there are few/no other powers they get.
Any given domain should probably focus heavily on a battlefield role of some kind (useless choices are bad to have, especially in third-party products), and I'm thinking that bonuses from physical stats (especially Constitution - to resist the forces being manipulated?) would be better than the mental ones. Maybe a degree of Intelligence, too, but definitely not Wisdom or Charisma as focuses.
That's what I'd like to see, anyway. XD Magic's fun and all, but I don't think physical phenomenon have been explored quite enough.
Howdy, gents! There's lots of good stuff here and I'm going to be putting together a draft for a class in the next day or two. I'm seeing a bunch of requests that are jumping up and down on the toes of things I've already made, though, so I'm going to list out my base classes here real quick in improper grammar simply to get them out quickly.
The Tinker - Pet class. Build blueprints using a certain number of points worth of inventions. Deploy automatons based on blueprints. Spend turns giving orders so the automatons do what you want. Alpha automaton needs no orders and can assist tinker with lesser automatons.
The Herbalist - Random spellcaster class. Picks plants every morning based on the ecology of her surroundings. Random plant assignment. Plants behave like single use spells. A small amount can be carried over from day to day. Some can be planted in pots and carried around, allowing access to, say, a cactus and a palm tree in the middle of the tundra.
The Ethermancer - It's a warlock, but with spell points that regen every round and more tactical depth.
The Gadgeteer - Mundane artificer and/or secret agent spy meets incarnum's points system.
@Desidero
Would you like to play the antimagic class to see if it's to your vision?
@Lindley
See, that sounds amusing, but has all of the constraints of a bard we once let be extra powerful if he played on a pipe organ. If the class could draw lesser circles or small effects in a pinch, re-use circles, or cast spells that are firmly beneath him with no circle at all, then it could work, and work quite well. I do believe I've seen part of a cartoon about a system of this sort :P
Thinking of the things I own and concepts I cannot do;
I find making a non inherently magical knowledge crlass difficult. Not sure if its possible considering how combat orientesd pathfinder usually is. the closest to the concept is the scholar from fistful of denarii. basically I tried to make Dr Who (uses smarts not combat or magic) and it didn't work too well.
I've only seen one real mundane crafter class. As in someone who used craft basket weaving for combat. what leads me to that is the general lack of classes that deal with food and herbs. potions are coring and monopolized by casters. food is represented as one class feature that shows its potential; the witch hex Cook People. if you can make satanic gingerbread men from cooking people why not things like cooking dragons to make breath weapon soda. overall I have a hard time representing a blacksmith's son using his craft to help him in an adventure he's gotten himself into, or a monster hunter that has a plan on what to do with the monsters body.
I'd like to see some monster classes or one monster class. basically either prestige classes that act like templates but with a progression, or a non caster sorcerer. perhaps both. my reasoning behind a non caster sorcerer is that their flavor is amazing but seem to be relegated to "different Wizard" but the idea doesn't necessarily mean that it should be weak or should have a spell list.
Well, sure, Pathfinder's core and overall system is very magic heavy. How do casters get better? More magic. How do melee get better? Poke a wizard. Buy magic. How do you swim up a waterfall? Train for it your whole life and do it at level 20. Or pay a midlevel guy with magic.
To make the mundane powerful requires some sort of esoteric knowledge, and, to that end, you effectively get the following dichotomy.
Magic - "Laws of physics, sit down and shut up! Guy in a robe here! -condescending smirk-"
Mundane - "Laws of physics, let's work together to make an ogre miserable! -gnomish grin-"
As such, when working with the mundane, the two most common things you'll see played out as that esoteric knowledge are chemistry and engineering. That isn't to say there aren't all sorts of other sorts of esoteric knowledge that could be used. These are simply two things that have the distinction of being powerful means by which we manipulate the laws of physics here in our own backyard. Cooking gets a lesser shoe-in because of its similarity to chemistry without the whole "exploding" thing. (And who wouldn't want to be the Breadmaster from The Tick?)
The end result is something that resembles magic in places while not actually being magic. Trying to make something unique in the mundane-as-power is fairly painful, as to do so requires that you go out and build a "spellbook" for your branch of knowledge from scratch. Now, you can tell when one of my products is going to be hitting this trope. They tend to cost more :P
I also tried monster classes in the past. It didn't sell well and too many people were mildly upset that the archetypes listed weren't very good options for PCs. I still maintain that they'd make great encounters for experienced players who need a curveball every now and then.
I'd enjoy seeing something Aberration-heavy somehow. Um... let me give a brief overview of where I'm coming from.
I tend to think of Aberrations as a "natural" version of Magical Beasts, with powers that work more with physical laws (even if those laws aren't known or understood) than magic. The best flavor would probably come from taking parts of the universe we understand and making them something bigger and better - imagine using a field of gravity as a shield, or changing the state of matter to sunder objects. A wall of magnetism could drag anything metal towards it at a certain rate (10 ft/round?), or super-hot plasma could be formed into a weapon. The key is that none of this is magical, and effects that would stop magic wouldn't work against this class - but effects that would stop normal physical activity would, even if those effects were magical themselves. It's all physical phenomenon, and the universe/magic would know how to react even if people don't. Also, not allowing for some kind of save/interaction doesn't seem like it would be entirely fair. Balance is important, too, however cool something is. Maybe something like others adding their Fortitude/Reflex modifiers to create an alternate for Spell Resistance would work? (These wouldn't be spells, after all)
I think I'd prefer to see such a class avoid any "Spell List" types of benefits - it should be very distinct from normal spellcasters (i.e. Not "Spellcasters by a better name who don't muck about with Spell Resistance"). A better fit might be a Domain system of some kind, each centered around a natural phenomenon (magnetism, gravity, etc.) in addition to whatever skills every member of the class has. Something like better uses per day to make up for the lack of spellcasting variety, a one-time feat (with a minimum level requirement?) to select a second domain, etc. Or make it additional domains at certain levels; that could also work, particularly if there are few/no other powers they get.
Any given domain should probably...
I am contractually obligated not to talk about anything resembling what you're talking about right now, which itself is more of a hint about upcoming stuff than I should probably give.
Meh. There's so much room for variation that even a general direction doesn't really say much about what a final product will look like. XD I'll just... pay a little more attention to what's coming out from others.
I don't like it either, Rednal, but I can't live up to my promise when somebody else has exclusivity on an already-started project I'm working on that gets a wee bit close to what you've got in your head.
Oh, I'm not worried about it. ^^ I'm just glad that it seems somebody else was thinking in the same direction - if more people are interested in the idea, then there's a better chance of a GM accepting it for use in a game. That works for me!
Also, best of luck with creating whatever it might actually be, and I hope it goes well for you. ^^
Care to circle back in X months? Greg and I have a "shared IP" deal on the class in question, so I'm allowed to make reprints and expansions to it after an exclusivity period that begins on release. It could be a fun alternate backend, if improperly flavored for the frontend.
If you send me a message around then, I'll probably see it. ^^ That's my plan, anyway - and suggesting ideas for expansion could be pretty fun in its own right.
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Ah, yeah, the ability to use pre-drawn spell circles and smaller circles and stuff sounds like it might be cool. I've had some other concepts that I've wanted (and occasionally tried) to make, but never had the ability to properly balance. One of my favorites had no daily uses, with each ability instead having a set duration that it was active, with the duration being able to be expended by spending a bit more time setting it up.
I've also felt that chemistry and engineering are the "go-to" fantasy-type class choices, with alchemy and robotics being the primary applications. I've personally always wanted to see Astronomy and Geology and such represented, simply because I figured it'd be cool.
When it comes to science, I've also felt that there are so many applications of engineering that aren't touched on. Where are the classes that make circuits of mystical power that activate each other? Where are the people that reverse-engineer traps to make their own? Where are the architects that can spring traps from afar and tear down entire walls with chain reactions?
Oh, and the point on cooking is also very nice. I've had ideas relating to other forms of craftsmanship, like an Origamist that has single-shot kamikaze minions, a Photographer that steals souls with an eldritch camera for later use, a Graffito whose spray paint is powerful beyond belief, or a Basket-Weaver who managed to kill people by way of weaving nature itself.
Feel free to use any or all of these, I never really got anything more than a base concept down for them.
I think a mental-based soldier would be cool, with some specializing in Intelligence, some Wisdom, some Charisma, and some a blending of two or three of them.
It would use a combination of tactics, intuition, and manipulation, often using teamwork, the environment, and props. Some would use knowledge of anatomy, perception of details, and misdirection in combat.
Out of combat, it would use a combo of MacGuyverisms, Mentalist tricks, and a commanding force of personality. Maybe it would use Knowledge checks to aid in combat.
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I think a mental-based soldier would be cool, with some specializing in Intelligence, some Wisdom, some Charisma, and some a blending of two or three of them.
It would use a combination of tactics, intuition, and manipulation, often using teamwork, the environment, and props. Some would use knowledge of anatomy, perception of details, and misdirection in combat.
Out of combat, it would use a combo of MacGuyverisms, Mentalist tricks, and a commanding force of personality. Maybe it would use Knowledge checks to aid in combat.
So ... the Warlord.
Just throwing out some ideas.
Mobility based fighter, preferably melee focused. I know we have the monk, but I want something that is more generic and generally applicable. I liked the Scout class because of how fast it moved around the battlefield.
A social manipulator, preferably non-magical. Possibly with some leadership mixed in for combat prowess. I want something that actually focuses on getting some real mileage out of what charisma is actually supposed to represent. I'd rather it be more a fast talking slimball or a political class than a bard class.
A military officer style class. A master of strategy and tactics and a leader of men. I'm thinking far more intellectual as well 3/4 or even 1/2 bab is fine because his prowess comes from ensuring others are fighting at their best. Let your fighter, cavaliers, paladins, and even bards lead from the front. This is the guy that tells them where they need to take their troops before the battle even begins, and has messages relayed to the front while he stays in the rear over watching the whole battle.
Super focused specialist arcane casters. Initially, I didn't like the old Dread Necromancer, etc style classes that focused on a single school of magic to the point they barely resembled a traditional caster, but those classes grew on me and really allow one to change the tone of magic in the setting by their usage. I wouldn't mind seeing a completely unique class built around each school of magic.
Pure Steam's Gear Head class gives me all of the cool tinkering and engineering I want, but I have friends that would jump for joy at a Power Armor class.
As the witch allows you to enter into a bargain with some otherworldly power for magic, I'd like to see one that allows you to bargain for physical power. You powers manifest as physically changes and mutations to you body often permanently. If at high levels you end up looking like some video game boss monster you're probably doing it right. My specific inspiration is from Exalted, the Infernal Exalts.
And just for a change of pace, a Law Enforcement class. Something to make guards and police play different. Ideally with extra power when enforcing laws. But not all laws are just or even legitimate, a gang might be the ones really in charge of an area, and their rules are what actually applies in their terf, and this class would work just as well for a gag or mafia enforcer.
Edit: Also a Wizard style Divine caster would be cool, I liked the Archivist a lot.
Possessed class. A martial class whose skills/ abilities aren't based on magic but a bond with a ghost/spirit. Fun part is that depending on which ghost /spirit he bonds with he could get different abilities. Instead of using current ghost types you can make up spirit types. (Spirit of battle, spirit of vigor etc) he could have many SU abilities which take swift/immediate actions to augment himself in battle. You could also add in a rage like ability that runs the risk of the spirit taking over the body.
I liked the idea that I randomly came up with so much that I threw some ideas together heh.
Possessed class:
Branches off right from the start with different types of spirits that possess you (share your body).
Branches off again and allows you two choices: symbiotic or possessed
If symbiotic then the power you gain from the spirit are limited but you remain in control. If possessed when you use your powers you have a chance (think wild surge) of something happening up to and including you losing control of your body to the spirit for a while.
It should be a martial class with full BAB progression and d8 hit die. When the temporary hit points of the spirit are reduced to 0 the spirit is repressed for 1 minutes while it regenerates.
An example build:
Battle-Spirit Possessed
Battle spirit: d6 temp health per level, (d4 if symbiotic).high will and fort, low ref saves. 4+int skills
Spirit Claws: At first level your spirit manifests claws made of force that grows from your hand. They do 1d6 damage (1 step less if symbiotic) +1 per ½ level. In addition as the possessed gains levels the weapon grows in power.
At 1st level the weapon counts as +1 and is magic for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction. At 5 and every 5 levels there after it gains an additional +1.
At second level at every two levels thereafter the claws gain additional abilities.
2nd: Conductive (see below), 4th: +5 ft reach, 6th: Keen 8th: +5 reach 10th: Attacks target touch AC
Conductive: If any uses of a touch attack SU are available they are automatically transferred through claw attacks. The SU activated is determined randomly.
Unnatural aura: You show up as both alive and dead to spells that detect such things. Mundane animals do not willingly approach you. At level 10 your spirit’s power is so unnerving that any enemy within 10 feet of you must make a will save (DC 10 + 1/2 hd + wis mod) or become panicked until it leaves the radius. Once it leaves it is shaken for 1d4 rounds. This aura can be activated a number of times per day = to wis mod.
Deadly Juggernaut: You become more powerful the more lives you take. This ability functions like the spell except it’s duration is permanent.
SU abilities: A possessed gains SU abilities usable a number of times per day equal to its 3+ it’s wisdom modifier.
1st: Bane (usable infinite times), 2nd: Inflict light sounds, 3rd: Ghoul touch, 4th: False life, 5th: Inflict serious wounds, 6th: Vampiric touch, 7th: marionette possession: When you use marionette possession you choose to send the possessing spirit out into the target’s body or you can send yourself, if you send yourself the spirit is in control of your body while you control the target. This SU otherwise functions like the spell.
@DesideroWould you like to play the antimagic class to see if it's to your vision?
I would love to give it a look. I probably can't play it atm but I am likely GMing a game soon so I could push it in as an NPC.
Some other random ideas:
A Jumper-esque teleport focused class
A gambling focused class who's heavy on RNG (I think I might have seen something like this before but I'm not sure)
A disciplinarian caster class that controls the battlefield not by impeding or preventing actions, but by establishing negative consequences. For example he could cast a spell that causes an enemy to take STR damage every time he goes for a specific combat maneuver.
A class who's abilities are fueled by self-damage. I've seen a blood mage class or two but I don't think anything with a more martial slant.
A class built around doing non lethal damage and humanely apprehending or incapacitating enemies. There is definitely support for this already but no base class.
@DesideroWould you like to play the antimagic class to see if it's to your vision?
I would love to give it a look. I probably can't play it atm but I am likely GMing a game soon so I could push it in as an NPC.
Sounds good. It looks fairly simple so far. I'm going with Voidchild or Negator as the class name. Primary class features include the Aura of Negation, which reduces spell DCs for a particular school within 15 feet of you. This chosen school can be changed as a standard action. The aura cannot be deactivated. As you level, radius increases to 30 feet and the reduction goes to -2 from -1. Allies are indeed penalized, though I suppose a feat chain to negate that would be good.
Offensive power outside of thwacking spellcasters is granted through a slow progression that grants bane effects against constructs, elementals, and undead (classically "magical" creatures), and a weaker bane effect against outsiders, magical beasts, and aberrations.
There's also going to be a list of abilities much like Hexes and dispel magic as a supernatural ability X times per day for all the fun that allows. Yes, it could have been a "Hex", but it just seemed too central. It might get demoted once I try to fit everything into a level table.
Just throwing out some ideas.
Mobility based fighter, preferably melee focused. I know we have the monk, but I want something that is more generic and generally applicable. I liked the Scout class because of how fast it moved around the battlefield.
A social manipulator, preferably non-magical. Possibly with some leadership mixed in for combat prowess. I want something that actually focuses on getting some real mileage out of what charisma is actually supposed to represent. I'd rather it be more a fast talking slimball or a political class than a bard class.
A military officer style class. A master of strategy and tactics and a leader of men. I'm thinking far more intellectual as well 3/4 or even 1/2 bab is fine because his prowess comes from ensuring others are fighting at their best. Let your fighter, cavaliers, paladins, and even bards lead from the front. This is the guy that tells them where they need to take their troops before the battle even begins, and has messages relayed to the front while he stays in the rear over watching the whole battle.
Super focused specialist arcane casters. Initially, I didn't like the old Dread Necromancer, etc style classes that focused on a single school of magic to the point they barely resembled a traditional caster, but those classes grew on me and really allow one to change the tone of magic in the setting by their usage. I wouldn't mind seeing a completely unique class built around each school of magic.
Pure Steam's Gear Head class gives me all of the cool tinkering and engineering I want, but I have friends that would jump for joy at a Power Armor class.
As the witch allows you to enter into a bargain with some otherworldly power for magic, I'd like to see one that allows you to bargain for physical power. You powers manifest as physically changes and mutations to you body often permanently. If at high levels you end up looking like some video game boss monster you're probably doing it right. My specific inspiration is from Exalted, the Infernal...
Mobile fighter - Some sort of whirling dervish, then.
Military officer - Aye, that class would be an aristocrat if that's all it did, though. Given this is a game about adventurers, it'd have to be a Patton-esque or Rommel-esque fighting general, which then gets you closer to a Warlord again. I'd have to look over the already-covered ground here and see if there's an angle people didn't take in the past because it was a pain in the rear to do.
Martial witch-like bargainer - This one writes itself. All it needs is a hundred or so grafts and some other weird biological/occult abilities. Let me queue that up as a "Yes, a thousand times, yes!", or "Ia, a thousand times, ia!", if you prefer.
A less physical Military officer isn't really any more out of place adventuring than a Wizard or a Bard. Young Officers cut their teeth leading small units. The intent is a class that grows more effective with larger groups as it progresses. Leading kingdoms and armies is acceptable play too, and there are entire field of competence more effective for those that aren't touched by existing classes.
Long answer short, I like to take my games out of the dungeon, and classes to support the outside world are pretty lacking.
Fair enough. It'd be a Kingmaker-oriented class. I'd have to do significant research, but I do like the notion.
There is more to life outside a dungeon than Kingmaker, but this class in particular would definitely fall into the Kingmaker style game. Probably with stuff that works ok for normal combat, but substantially better for mass combat.
My social manipulator suggestion earlier was based on the idea of courtly intrigue is a valid game style to play with, though the skills are useful in other environments as well. For such a thing to work Pathfinder would probably need a far more robust social system.
Martial witch-like bargainer - This one writes itself. All it needs is a hundred or so grafts and some other weird biological/occult abilities. Let me queue that up as a "Yes, a thousand times, yes!", or "Ia, a thousand times, ia!", if you prefer.
HECK YES!
For a shortcut for "grafts", might you consider looking into Eidolon evolutions? The class could allow the bargainer to evolve themselves. There's only one class out there that does this right now - Rite Publishing's Masquerade Reveler Barbarian archetype - which while I love it, has a very limited list of evolutions it can take (small/medium bipedal Eidolon options only) or use at one time.
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I guess it might seem a little typical but whatever:
An Arcane ninja...yeah seems like that we are missing one of those. See Ninja Gaiden, Final Fantasy etc...
A class just focusing on telekinesis from the beginning to the end.
With the Kaiju added to Bestiary 4, I actually would like to see some kind of a Sentai class or prestige class I guess (sentai power ranger, bioman etc...) specializing on summoning special constructs to fight Kaiju.
I've looked into the evolutions. It's a good baseline to start with, but I hear enough complaining about the overall balance of that class to be very leery about creating more evolutions. If I build from scratch, I don't need to spend time worrying about the balance of each obscure archetype and how my evolutions would affect it. Besides, this gives me the ability to create a complicated set of nested and progressive grafts, which evolution does to some slight extent, but not to the level I want to go with it.
For example, it's not just, "Give me a tentacle!" that I am seeing. It's, "Give me a tentacle, then put spikes on it. Be sure to make the spikes ooze poison. Wait, I lose an arm to having a tentacle? Well, fine, then, give me another arm and then make THAT the tentacle. You know what? Another arm so I can dual wield and shield block at the same time. Oh, and wings. Give me wings. Wings that are on fire that I can beat and shoot small cones of flame with. Oh, and make them flare up and hurt anything that is dumb enough to hit me with a bare fist! Is there enough of my soul left unspent to talk horns? :)"
Sounds good to me =D Looking forward to it.
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Hey, I could totally sell my soul to an Angel and become a being of Light and Divine Flame, Beautiful and Terrible in my Power. All Love and Fear me. Those that oppose me I Smite with the Swords of Pure Justice* which I traded my hands to wield.
*as in the swords are actually made of justice made substance.
Monster-Witch-Thing Mechanics
Fairly simple idea. Small graft every level you don't get a big graft. Big grafts at 2, 5, 9, 13, 17
Big grafts will be massive changes to anatomy, primarily limbs. We're talking wings, extra arms, any classic draconic breath weapon (the mucus launcher can be a small). The character can swap out a small graft for another one (without breaking any progression paths) each time he gets a large graft.
Here's a mockup.
1 - Extra nasty fingernails for natural claw attack
2 - A third arm!
3 - Transform third arm into tentacle
4 - Give tentacle bonus to grappling
5 - Wings!
6 - Give tentacle spines
7 - Grant self a single wing buffet attack
8 - Grant self the other wing buffet attack
9 - Breath weapon!
10 - Better breath weapon!
11 - I like breathing acid!
12 - Bigger breath weapon!
13 - Gain Spell Resistance. I'm sick of those blasted hold spells right before I close!
14 - Claws become icky and may sicken the first time they contact a specific creature.
15 - Craggy skin for natural armor
16 - Craggier skin for natural armor
17 - Tail!
18 - Spines on tail!
19 - Poison spines on tail!
20 - When did I become a black dragon? More specifically, a bipedal one with a tentacle in the middle of its chest.
Edit: Ew. We're going to have alignment gating on certain things, aren't we? We can't have some evil jerk dual wielding the Fistswordschuks of Ultimate Truth and Justice(tm), can we?
Edit: Ew. We're going to have alignment gating on certain things, aren't we? We can't have some evil jerk dual wielding the Fistswordschuks of Ultimate Truth and Justice(tm), can we?
Easy way to handle that, if you want to avoid having alignment restrictions.
Make the basic ability itself general. Say it's empowered by your/your patron's ethos/morality, but don't go into detail. In the mechanics, say that it gains an alignment property equal to the user's (so if the user is LG, he can pick something like holy or axiomatic, but not one of the opposed), or extra damage against opposite alignments (so the LG guy can do extra damage against Chaotics or Evils, but not fellow Lawfuls or Goods).
The player/GM can flavor it from there, depending on the bargain they've made, the details of the character's design, and so forth. So the Good guy who grabs the "crystal hand-swords of ethical excellence" is running around with blades made of solidified Justice on his hands, while the mastermind villain riding the skies over his tyrannical kingdom on "wings of pure moral might" is soaring on literal darkness and evil given flesh.
I say gate it off the alignment of the being granting it. Demons may sell power a good guy to buy them off, but it is evil power. An angel may have its own reasons for bestowing its good power on an evil person.
Or you go for ultra weird as say the being you get this power from are outside of alignment.
More reasonable would be to make the mechanical effect of generic and then have a requirement of make up your own weird way to describe it, but it must be at least this weird/alien/mutated.
Also why wouldn't an evil being hand out Fistswordschuks of Ultimate Truth and Justice? They are excellent tools of oppression. Also I had every intention of the being I described being evil.
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How about a copy cat? X/day emulate a skill, feat, SLA, or spell.
Possessed class. A martial class whose skills/ abilities aren't based on magic but a bond with a ghost/spirit. Fun part is that depending on which ghost /spirit he bonds with he could get different abilities. Instead of using current ghost types you can make up spirit types. (Spirit of battle, spirit of vigor etc) he could have many SU abilities which take swift/immediate actions to augment himself in battle. You could also add in a rage like ability that runs the risk of the spirit taking over the body.
Couldn't this just be any class, with the flavor that you got your abilities from the spirit?
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Please forgive my total threadjacking here but there are a lot of these classes which Little Red and other publishers have covered in the past. If nothing else, it can help you see what those publishers did well and where they failed.
Engineer
Other than the tinker and gadgeteer that Interjection put out there is a thread floating around the homebrew forums that has a list of the 30+ engineer style classes that have been produced. I suggest you seek it it out :-) Also the machinesmith from LPJ is pretty solid.
Anti-magic class
We have a whole book of these coming out next month (mage hunter paladin alternate class, spell-weaver, and arcane luddite). Just waiting on artwork for this.
Genius fighter
We did a free prestige class called the “wolong” which is along the lines of this. Paizo’s own tactician archetype fits the bill too. There are a lot of them that fill the “officer” role that comes up. I know Adamant Entertainment did a warlord in Tome of Secrets too.
“someone who used craft basket weaving for combat.”
We did a “Wandering artist” class that does that. Also, since you guys were talking about cooking later, the “battle chef” we put out is exactly like that. Use combat cooking to combo together melee attacks.
A warlock
Interjection did their ethermancer and we did the “invoker” that are very much like a warlock.
Possessed class/symbiotic items
Primal host (Super specifically to possession the Soulbound archetype from Tome of Tomes) is what you are describing down to some of the class features and symbiotic item growth.
A Jumper-esque teleport focused class
Dimensional knight (Tome of Spell & Sword) is what you ordered. It’s delicious. It jumps around, plays with portals, folds space, etc.
Mobility based fighter
We did the “skirmisher” base class which is exactly what you described. Light weapons, attacks while moving, bonus movement speed, critical monkey, with a unique dice mechanic to represent “creativity”. It’s one of our fav. classes to play during our playtests and one of the first base classes we ever put out. The martialist from Heroes of the East also covers this a bit, though it’s more wuxia focused.
Super focused specialist arcane casters
We did the “maven” prestige class in champion of magic that literally gets superpowered versions of single spells/schools. Real hyper focus arcane caster.
“As the witch allows you to enter into a bargain with some otherworldly power for magic, I'd like to see one that allows you to bargain for physical power. “
We did the wytchblade in champions of magic that does exactly that. Makes pacts like a witch but they gain not only hexes but weapon improvements and otherworldly powers.
”A disciplinarian caster class that controls the battlefield not by impeding or preventing actions, but by establishing negative consequences”
We have a law based paladin style class called the judge that does this. Not a full caster however. Also our kotodama master prestige from our Tome of Ingenuity does this and is more caster related.
A class built around doing non lethal damage
We did a few archetypes like this. Off the top of my head we have the vigilante archetype for gunslingers in Heroes of the West that does just that.
Arcane ninja
We have an arcane ninja archetype in Heroes of the East III.