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I've had a few people at my table recently who were playing scenarios they've already run, and it got me thinking about the way I try to handle that. Then I thought maybe we could put together a list of suggestions. So here are mine; I'd love to see others.
1. Don't pester the GM with things you remember from the scenario. They might already be doing them, in which case they don't want to hear it; there might be something in the scenario you've forgotten that negates whatever you're reminding them of; and maybe you just don't remember it correctly. (I'm not saying I've never done this, just that I should not have. :P)
2. Don't drive. That means that you need to let the players who have not previously run the scenario make the decisions. No matter how much you try not to metagame, if you're making the decisions, it can be problematic. In essence, play a support character, even if that character is normally a rockstar.
2a. Speaking of which, please don't deliberately metagame. Buying equipment specifically designed to handle the BBEG's best move, making decisions that don't necessarily make sense because you know what the secondary success condition is, et cetera.
2b. Sometimes, not driving means making behavioral sacrifices. For instance, if you're in an area where you know a perception check will accomplish something, and you're certain that your character would make the perception check ... don't. Wait for the other players to make the perception check. If they roll it and you then roll higher, that's fine. But if they don't roll it, sometimes you just have to suck that up. Don't get me wrong--if they're missing a trap, and you're the rogue, you should be searching. And if there's a trap and you're not the rogue, it's okay to let someone who should have thought to search for it trip it. But if there's a secret entrance, and nobody thinks to scout for it, well, sometimes you just have to go in the front.
2c. When dealing with a puzzle, just walk away. Refresh your beverage, check your email, whatever. Or filibuster--I had someone the other day spouting gibberish math theory because he couldn't help with a math-based puzzle, and that was actually pretty funny. Just don't help! You already know the answer, and if there are clues to be delivered, the GM will deliver them. (See point 1.)
Uh ... I guess that's all I can think of right now. I'm sure more will come to me. Please tell me your thoughts on the matter.
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I replay a lot for no credit. Here's what usually happens.
- Notify everyone that I've played or GM'd the game before, and won't be getting credit.
- Ask if the party wants character A, B, or C depending, or if they want me to play a pregen. I don't really mind; the only character I want to consistently play for credit is my barbarian, but sometimes the party needs something else. And since they're getting credit and I'm not, I feel like I should accommodate.
- I won't talk to plot-related NPCs in a plot-related sense unless the party wants me to. For example, if I am playing someone with a decent diplomacy, the party might want me to use my skills to get information out of an NPC. So I'd have them tell me what to say OOC, paraphrase that to the NPC IC, and then make the roll. Repeating as necessary. This allows me to still be as mechanically helpful to the party without spoiling the game unintentionally.
- I won't start any combats. So if there's a troll blocking our way, my barbarian won't try to harvest it's tusks like he usually would, instead he'll wait until the party decides what to do. This prevents me from dragging the party into a fight they might not have wanted to have, and alleviates any guilt I might have if another PC dies during combat, as it was a combat I did not start.
- I won't correct the GM if minor errors occur; I could be wrong too. However, If a critical oversight occurs, I might ask for a moment of the GM's time. While there might be some disagreement about whether or not this is appropriate, I think that politely preventing someone from making a mistake that could cause a critical change in the game is better than allowing it to happen and dealing with the unexpected fallout (like a TPK from running a monster incorrectly).
With a closing thought, allow me to be an advocate for playing for no credit. With the barbarian alone, I think about half his chronicle sheets are for no credit. And all those games are just as rewarding as getting experience and gold afterwards. Because the time spent playing with fun people is the real reward.
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If you have a choice, play your dumbest character and play them to the hilt (or at least as far as you can without getting the party killed or blowing the mission). Its far easier to justify the 7 int 7 wisdom character sitting in the corner going "duh" than the supra genuis.
"Confounded, devilish devious trap! How am I supposed to get out of this infernal contraption?
"Fabrizio, are you stuck in the bathroom stall again?
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It's tough. It's especially difficult when I find myself finally getting to play a game for credit after I've GM'ed it. Yes, this is an issue even with just 21 table of GM credit, becuase some scenarios are dang popular.
I try to follow the guidelines Patrick & Walter listed above.
There was one time recently when I had my character solve a particularly frustrating puzzle.
Still, the "prime directive" of replay is, for me what you listed at
#2 - Don't drive.
There's still plenty of ways to contribute and it's fun (for me) to see how a different group solves the challeneges and approaches the combats.
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Another way to avoid this is to play a self-driven character, one where you know exactly what they would do, for better or worse.
Jump in the slimy water? Yep. Whether that's green slime on top or there's a magic +2 shield below.*
Piss off/seduce/ignore the important NPC? Should already know answer.
Because I often run something before playing it, I prefer making characters like this. Funnily enough, sometimes other players will meta-game off of what I'm doing (or simply defer), and it ends up leading us into trouble. :O
Actually had the "don't buy important items" issue come up when I was going to buy something for "Year of the Demon", but refrained because it was too timely, knowing the particular demon we'd face.
Party PPKed because of it too. :(
Cheers.
*Yes, that's a ToEE reference. :)
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I find the fact people are advocating for GM's who have run a scenario to step back rather disheartening. Yes, it can be difficult to separate spoiler knowledge from character motivations. But many, not all, many of my characters have a very dynamic personality and want to be front and center. Now I can't participate in roleplay or decision making because I've run this? I'm basically relegated to being a combatant only? This somehow seems like a ridiculously poor compromise to me. It could work, and does work, for many people, but I am not here just for murder simulation. I am also here for the interaction and social aspects of the game, and most of my characters tend to be as social as I am.
I hope that's not the impression that I gave with my post. I don't see PFS as a murder simulation, nor do I feel I can't participate in roleplay or decision making because I've already run the scenario. I just choose not to make story-related decisions, so that the players getting credit decide how the game unfolds. This is because I don't want to spoil the game for them, even unintentionally. For example, I would be remiss to convince the party to release an NPC we had in custody, only to have them loose a boon at the end of the scenario for doing so.
I think that your assuming some things that paint a very drab picture of replaying for no credit, which is assuredly not the case. I find that quite often I have richer roleplaying experiences when I don't have to worry about making plot decisions or asking the right questions to a random NPC. I can just enjoy playing. But you are correct, these are simply guidelines, and certainly don't apply to everyone.
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Our region has a penchant for running the same adventure multiple times. We have some folks who can only make it on certain days, so it works well for us. One of the side effects of this is that the steady/repeat GMs end up playing in stuff they've GMed semi-frequently. So this has happened to me a few times, despite the low number of tables I've run. I tend to alternate between two extremes. Either I'm almost totally silent, or I'm center stage. It depends entirely on the table.
A lot of my characters have strong personalities, and one of them in particular tends to shoot off into flights of fancy if he's not sat on. Every now and again I'll sit with a table where nobody wants to step up and be the party face, because they don't have the skill for it. In that situation, I tend the warn the group that someone had better step up or (insert character here) will and for the most part that tends to get parties involved in hilarity that forward thinking pathfinders would be prudent to avoid.
Generally someone steps up and I'll content myself with either a few snarky comments or an occassional moment of outrageousness (depending on the character). A few times nobody did, and one of them was when I'd run the scenario before. I was careful to let the other characters make any important finds, but otherwise I used my position as the defacto party face to run us into all sorts of trouble. Mostly I'd pick something I knew to be innocent and act unbelievably suspicious in a really ridiculous way. By the end of the scenario, I think I had one or two people partially convinced that a mute stableboy (think Hodor from A Song of Ice and Fire) was actually a master illusionist. My character was pursuing it with such fervor that I had at least one of them considering it simply because they knew I'd GMed the scenario before. It was hilarious.
But yeah, mostly I just sit back and choose my roleplay moments carefully. When it's something I know my character would legitimately do, I'll do it. That counts for both helping the party and doing something foolish.
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I try to learn from how others run the scenario I've already run. If they run it differently that I did, I ask about it after the fact just to see where I missed something.
I also play stupid. If my character would or would not do something, I won't do it. This has gotten me into trouble with other players before.
That is not to say I'm quiet. I'll play my character. If I want to look for a secret door, I'll look for a secret door (though usually after someone suggests it). Before that, I'm just looking for loot, haha.
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But unless there is a ruling in the Guide to say otherwise, I would not want to leave everyone reading this thread with the impression that it is the only way.
That was definitely not my intention. As I said, these are just suggestions.
Most of these can be set aside by experienced GMs, if they feel like they know what they're doing. The only ones of my suggestions that I'm firm on would be #1 and #2a. And even #1 obviously depends on the relationship of the player to the GM.
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I tend to let the other players take the lead, while using my own roleplay to give them hints rather than outright solving the scenario.
When my bard played a certain scenario with a code in it, I watched the other players work on it a bit before having her condescendingly correct them on a particular error they were making in deciphering it. I'll often ask questions and make guesses in-character to prompt the party along.
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It depends a lot on the scenario and character. I'll try very, very hard to avoid any advantage and play the character as hnestly as possible but I am there to have fun and that does mean actually playing. My bard IS going to speak to people, etc.
When a situation comes up where I just know too much I'll inform the other players and ask one to "drive" the character for a bit ( eg, move it when I know there is a trap or an ambush).
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First things first, make sure everyone at the table knows you're familiar with the scenario. Most will understand.
I bite my tongue as much as I can. If other party members ask me about answers to puzzles, I'll allow myself to make INT (or whatever is appropriate) rolls to solve things I(the player) know already. And even then, I'll let the GM decide what I know.