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Yes, I am asking that question.
Mainly, I am looking to what would be necessary to start a colony in an airless or near airless environment such as an asteroid of the diaspora.
IOW, game mechanics to meet the basic necessities of such a venture.
Things such as (air) life support and protection from vacuum.
1. Denizens to populate or at least build until it has self-contained life support?
2. Magic spells and items to make use of?
3. Technology?
4. 3rd party spells, equipment, classes?
5. Trying to minimize cost but if really expensive is the only way...
My general thoughts/plans for starting:
1. Portal or interplanetary teleport
2. Make simulacrums (sp?) of the robot gearsman as they would work best in such an environment. Undead may work fine but intelligent undead with the proper skills and a willingness to work unsupervised my be difficult to arrange...
3. Build greenhouses enclosed using the gearsmen. Basically pay outright for the price of the building (Ultimate Campaign) and have it built underground by the robots.
4. Greenhouse(s) would need light...everburning torches (cheap), item to have daylight (expensive) in continuous operation; possibly a heat source
5. Means of an airlock for going in and out? Or perhaps something like a two way dimension door portal so that an airlock would not be needed?
Just looking for ideas onn problems that would need to be addressed and means to address them.
Ideas?
Eh....I don't think this is something that would be common in the Pathfinder world. Between plane shift and interplanetary teleport it wouldn't really be necessary.
However, I would expect liberal use of undead or constructs and some sort of magical item that functions as a suspended animation chamber.
Eh....I don't think this is something that would be common in the Pathfinder world. Between plane shift and interplanetary teleport it wouldn't really be necessary.
However, I would expect liberal use of undead or constructs and some sort of magical item that functions as a suspended animation chamber.
Perhaps I should rephrase.
I want to work toward this as a player. :D
So, I'm actually trying to work out the nuts and bolts.
I want to build a colony in such an environment.
Interplanetary teleport will get people there.
Command word use of a spell
caster level * spell level * 1800
17*9*1800= 275400 gp value
1/2 to create would be 137700.
So, basically for 137700 one could make an item to give unlimited use of interplanetary teleport.
Or, one could create an item that was paired at two different points in space (basically two star gates) and paired to work together only (limiting the charges per day to reduce cost).
I'm not worried about that.
But, that is a lot of gp to tie into one item.
Denizens?
Most constructs that can be made are unintelligent. Many undead are unintelligent.
Finding intelligent constructs and undead is a difficult starting place, much less those who actually have the skills needed. Even more difficult is enlisting their service.
I'm looking for specifics and means.
The best I have come up with is making a simulacrum of a gearsman robot. They have craft skills and have bonus skills which they can reallocate to any other skill after spending only a short period of time. Plus, they have a natural healing power which I think has been determined to be away for a simulacrum to get around its inability to be aided by healing magic.
That is a start.
But, I want a means to make a colony for intelligent living creatures that aren't slaves.
Basically a mining colony etc.
So, temporary assignment to the colony to prevent people from becoming too adjusted to the low gravity.
Perhaps a magic area created using reverse gravity (the spell would be the source of the effect rather than the effect itself) to create a workout area.
Note: in my pricing of interplanetary teleport I left out the adjustment factor for the spell duration...
3 above
b air: perhaps have a gust of wind area to be used for refreshing "pressure suits" link
c) bard and lyre- very good but will it work in a hard vacuum?
Core only and going for cost-effective.
Necklace of Adaptation keeps you surrounded by breathable air, the description even specifies that it will function in a vacuum. There you have a spacesuit.
Instead of an airlock just keep an arch open to the vacuum and balance the 'suction' with a permanent Gust of Wind blowing back into the room. If you research it carefully you can probably calculate it to bring the air to perfect equilibrium.
Transport breathable air up to the space-station with bags of holding or a portable hole. (Bags of holding theoretically could contain more air having a larger cubic volume, but the item description doesn't support this stating specifically that it only holds 10 minutes. I would personally ignore this because it makes no sense, but ask your GM).
Use a Lyre of Building to construct the base, it gives you 300 man-days of building in half an hour once per week. It's also pretty cheap so it really is more economical to build your city on rock and roll.
Dust of Dryness would let you easily transport 100 gallons of water very cheaply. You could get a Decanter of Endless Water although it seems like a bit of overkill unless it's a particularly large colony with a lot of people.
Ask your GM if alchemists have discovered the Bosch Reaction and can build an alchemical version to scrub the air.
Alternatively ask your GM if alchemists have discovered electrolysis to generate oxygen from water and then you can generate all the air you need with a decanter of endless water. (Baring the magical decanter, this is how the International Space Station generates air).
Or ask your GM if leaving one 'bottle of air' open in the station per inhabitant would count for life-support.
Or transport a whole lot of plants for a more organic life-support system.
Edit: Wow, Timebomb beat me to posting a lot of these suggestions.
Thanks guys, I'm just getting started with ideas and throwing them out there.
Please keep more coming. :D
More ideas:
multiple followers of the super genius games dragonrider class.
A dragonrider has a mystic bond with a youthful true dragon, a bond that guarantees the dragons loyalty to the rider (as long as it is treated with respect), and allows the dragonrider to tap into some of the bonded steed’s arcane power. A character that starts as a dragonrider at 1st level is assumed to have already bonded with a dragon of his choice.
They could choose appropriate outer dragon but I am not sure if that would be considered a true dragon. I believe I have read elsewhere that the SG guys said yes for such things as opposed to something merely with the dragon subtype like a wyvern.
All outer dragons have starflight:
Starflight (Su) In outer space, an outer dragon can survive in the void and fly at incredible speed. Travel times vary, but a trip within a single solar system should take 3d20 hours, and a trip beyond should take 3d20 days or more if the dragon knows the way to its destination. An outer dragon can carry one rider of one size category smaller than itself, four passengers two sizes smaller, eight passengers three sizes smaller, or 16 passengers four or more sizes smaller. Passengers are protected from the void of outer space.
c) bard and lyre- very good but will it work in a hard vacuum?
Get the bard wearing a Necklace of Adaptation and then open an eversmoking bottle to allow smoke to fill the entire area you're effecting with the Lyre. While the smoke won't be breathable it will mean that the area isn't in hard vacuum. Also it'll look pretty cool when you allow the smoke to dissipate and just leave the structures behind.
Core only and going for cost-effective.
Necklace of Adaptation keeps you surrounded by breathable air, the description even specifies that it will function in a vacuum. There you have a spacesuit.
Instead of an airlock just keep an arch open to the vacuum and balance the 'suction' with a permanent Gust of Wind blowing back into the room. If you research it carefully you can probably calculate it to bring the air to perfect equilibrium.
Transport breathable air up to the space-station with bags of holding or a portable hole. (Bags of holding theoretically could contain more air having a larger cubic volume, but the item description doesn't support this stating specifically that it only holds 10 minutes. I would personally ignore this because it makes no sense, but ask your GM).
Use a Lyre of Building to construct the base, it gives you 300 man-days of building in half an hour once per week. It's also pretty cheap so it really is more economical to build your city on rock and roll.
Dust of Dryness would let you easily transport 100 gallons of water very cheaply. You could get a Decanter of Endless Water although it seems like a bit of overkill unless it's a particularly large colony with a lot of people.
Ask your GM if alchemists have discovered the Bosch Reaction and can build an alchemical version to scrub the air.
Alternatively ask your GM if alchemists have discovered electrolysis to generate oxygen from water and then you can generate all the air you need with a decanter of endless water. (Baring the magical decanter, this is how the International Space Station generates air).
Or ask your GM if leaving one 'bottle of air' open in the station per inhabitant would count for life-support.
Or transport a whole lot of plants for a more organic life-support system.
Edit: Wow, Timebomb beat me to posting a lot of these suggestions.
Thanks for mentioning the bosch reaction. I had been thinking in that direction but drawing a blank on the name. If possible, I would like to replace magic with technology that can be somehow come up with in PF through its rules and 3rd party products.
The problem with the necklace of adaptation is that although it keeps breathable air for you even in a vacuum, I don't think it offsets the damage due to decompression mentioned in Distant Worlds. Thus you can keep breathing while you explode.
Another possibility I was thinking of is to use miracle to create a small self-sufficient area with plant-life and water in perhaps a crater or such.
c) bard and lyre- very good but will it work in a hard vacuum?Get the bard wearing a Necklace of Adaptation and then open an eversmoking bottle to allow smoke to fill the entire area you're effecting with the Lyre. While the smoke won't be breathable it will mean that the area isn't in hard vacuum. Also it'll look pretty cool when you allow the smoke to dissipate and just leave the structures behind.
I like the idea.
The hard science thinking says that the smoke would instantly dissipate to fill the vacuum but I think that is probably good enough considering how many physics liberties are taken anyways in PF.
A lot of this was in the space station thread, but you can also go big or home with a wish spell. Or the cheaper more horrible version where you ask a genie.
Otherwise use wall of iron and polymorph any object and then fabricate to build up your asteroid a bit.
The problem with the necklace of adaptation is that although it keeps breathable air for you even in a vacuum, I don't think it offsets the damage due to decompression mentioned in Distant Worlds. Thus you can keep breathing while you explode.
From a rules perspective I don't know but from a science perspective I don't see how that's possible. You're surrounded by a 'shell of breathable air' and humans can't breathe air if it's not at roughly atmospheric pressures. Therefore surrounded by breathable air implies that you're not decompressing. This is why I suggest the necklace rather than something like just a bottle of air.
The hard science thinking says that the smoke would instantly dissipate to fill the vacuum but I think that is probably good enough considering how many physics liberties are taken anyways in PF.
Actually I think you're right given that a strong wind can disperse the smoke in 1 round.
A lot of this was in the space station thread, but you can also go big or home with a wish spell. Or the cheaper more horrible version where you ask a genie.
Otherwise use wall of iron and polymorph any object and then fabricate to build up your asteroid a bit.
That, I like.
Spells with a duration of instantaneous (wall of iron) can't be dispelled, correct?
Also, it would continue to exist in an antimagic field, correct?
The problem with the necklace of adaptation is that although it keeps breathable air for you even in a vacuum, I don't think it offsets the damage due to decompression mentioned in Distant Worlds. Thus you can keep breathing while you explode.From a rules perspective I don't know but from a science perspective I don't see how that's possible. You're surrounded by a 'shell of breathable air' and humans can't breathe air if it's not at roughly atmospheric pressures. Therefore surrounded by breathable air implies that you're not decompressing. This is why I suggest the necklace rather than something like just a bottle of air.
The hard science thinking says that the smoke would instantly dissipate to fill the vacuum but I think that is probably good enough considering how many physics liberties are taken anyways in PF.Actually I think you're right given that a strong wind can disperse the smoke in 1 round.
I see. Wraps the wearer in a shell rather than just around his head. Pressure suit is cheaper but needs to be recharged. Choices.
I wonder what the Arcane Spell Failure chances are for a full spacesuit...
@ Journ-O-LST-3 or anyone who may know
I am having a little trouble finding the space station thread.
What was the thread's title and in what forum was it?
I wonder what the Arcane Spell Failure chances are for a full spacesuit...
-1 AC penalty but no arcane failure penalty.
pressure suit, from distant worlds
***
This magical full-body suit completely protects the wearer from temperature extremes (as if by endure elements) and pressure dangers of hard vacuum and all worlds in the system (save the sun), though it only carries enough air for 3 days before it must be recharged in breathable atmosphere (such as that inside a ship). If the suit’s seal is broken—such as the helmet being removed to eat or drink—all the air escapes in 2d6 rounds. A suit with a broken seal confers only the benefits of endure elements. The suit automatically repairs small holes, but if it is struck by a critical hit from a piercing or slashing weapon, the wearer of the pressure suit must succeed at a Reflex save (DC equal to the opponent’s confirmation roll) or the seal breaks. A suit with a broken seal can be repaired with a DC 18 Craft (armor) check or a make whole spell. The suit does not compensate for changes in gravity. Wearing a pressure suit imposes a –1 armor check penalty; this penalty stacks with those provided by other equipment (such as armor). Since it takes up both the body and helm slots, armor can be worn over a pressure suit, but robes and helms cannot.
***
Note: I have distant worlds and try to avoid using d20pfsrd for things I don't have but it is easier to use the d20pfsrd than my books when copying and pasting
Most of my suggestions have already been brought up. All I have to add is another idea for a door: some kind of permanent phase door effect. It has the added advantage of built-in security if you set a password or only allow certain creature types. Wouldn't be too hard to outline it so it's visible, or leave it invisible and tell people where to look.
Marvelous Pigments could be used to paint structures. Each pot allows 1,000 cubic feet, or basically a 10ft. x 10ft. x 10ft. square building/room/structure. Depict it as stone, metal, or even glass if you wish. It will give you a quick way to make rooms or get a starting point for working outward. You'd need to supply it with air and have an entrance, assuming you didn't have it form around you. Might have to paint an airlock. A small-size Air Elemental should believably be able to generate and convert breathable air in a room that size. They don't like doing the bidding of mortals however.
Helm of Underwater Action says it creates a globe of air. Whether that should work outside of water is debatable and whether it works in space is another. I'd probably say no, but it could be a basis for similar helm that does.
Constructs, animated objects and undead are obviously the quickest choices for labor in that environment, but an earth elemental would be great for constructing the rooms and tunnels inside an asteroid as well as strengthening weak areas.
Apparatus of the Crab could be used for construction if it was modified. If you assume it doesn't need the diving functions or the attack pincers you could have a crew using them for construction tasks.
There appears to be an a spell called Life Bubble in the advanced spell list. That would seem helpful for workers and has a duration like Water-breathing which means it's a long time by itself and can be spread over a number of people as needed.
Marvelous pigments- useful but expensive
helm of underwater action- not good for vacuum, but could be useful in bad air to keep good air around one's head
Building things requires skills such as craft (masonry, or carpentry, etc.) and constructs and animated objects typically have no skills (elementals typically have no craft skills but not beyond the realm of possibility) while undead either are mindless (no skills) or need to be created and controlled.
Apparatus of the Crab- useful but expensive
Life bubble- good, useful with a high level spellcaster remaining on-site
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Permanent Create Greater Demiplane with a blue police box as a gateway.
And here you go:
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pqmo?Pathfinder-in-space
So far, this is what I think I will go with
1. interplanetary teleport to start with, later build basically the equivalent of a stargate: interplanetary teleport item with limited charges per day. Simulacrum of outer dragons and/or oma can also quickly travel to and fro (interstellat travel, 3d20 hours, rider protected from space). Cheap: Simulacrum of great wyrm time dragon (28 hd, simulacrum with 14) would cost 7000 gp, Oma (20 hd, half is 10 hd) cost 5000 gp to transport multiple riders (still have to get past one round of 6d6 acid damage).
2. air lock with charges per day (or at will) gust of wind device: basically enter into a room wearing a pressure suit or necklace of adaptation, close door then open one to outside, depressurizing. close door, refill room by activating device. 48000 unlimited usage, reduce by having command word and possibly daily charges
3. simulacrum of robot gearsmen (link) to perform many constructions. Would only have two hit dice but would be very effective workers. 1000 gp ea
And here you go:
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pqmo?Pathfinder-in-space
Outstanding.
Much appreciated.
air lock
I'm thinking that perhaps a 1st level continuous [air] spell could do over a period of time what gust of wind could do in a round. Magic items use spells as a basis but do not necessarily need to exactly replicate the spell. So, use alter winds as the "power" for the device and have it take an hour or so to fill the air lock after it is emptied. cost 2000 gp, 1800 if command word activated
lets see... you'll need a mode of transportation (fly?), ways to deal with the extreme hot/cold (resist elements), airless environment (air bubble or something better), and harsh radiation in space (???), as well as the logistics of a long trip in which you cant really stop, like food and water (clear spindle ioun stone), time (mythic tier 1, longevity universal power?), and the fact that if any of these effects end even for a little while, you're pretty much boned (so you'd need 25+ hour durations on all of them, and diligently refresh them).
there's also entertainment to consider, since a long long time by yourself in the vast abyss of the cosmos would drive one a little batty.
The witch hex ice tomb might work as stasis, as would enough sepia snake segils.
lets see... you'll need a mode of transportation (fly?), ways to deal with the extreme hot/cold (resist elements), airless environment (air bubble or something better), and harsh radiation in space (???), as well as the logistics of a long trip in which you cant really stop, like food and water (clear spindle ioun stone), time (mythic tier 1, longevity universal power?), and the fact that if any of these effects end even for a little while, you're pretty much boned (so you'd need 25+ hour durations on all of them, and diligently refresh them).
there's also entertainment to consider, since a long long time by yourself in the vast abyss of the cosmos would drive one a little batty.
simulacrum of a great wyrm time dragon (outer dragon) (28 hd reduced to 14 hd in simulacrum form) for a cost of 7000 gp
All outer dragons have starflight:
Starflight (Su) In outer space, an outer dragon can survive in the void and fly at incredible speed. Travel times vary, but a trip within a single solar system should take 3d20 hours, and a trip beyond should take 3d20 days or more if the dragon knows the way to its destination. An outer dragon can carry one rider of one size category smaller than itself, four passengers two sizes smaller, eight passengers three sizes smaller, or 16 passengers four or more sizes smaller. Passengers are protected from the void of outer space.
Intrastellar travel for roughly 3d20 hours, protected from void of space. Just need water to drink and some empty containers to pee in, or just pee off the side. :D The simulacrum is unquestioningly obeying.